[PhMZ4]

Indeed, in any case a very good linear and regulated power supply on the USBridge Sig. can just improve things globally, such as the Shanti or similar .... garbage in => garbage out works always )))

 

[rsbrsvp]

USB cables make a huge difference to my ears as sell which they should not of there is complete isolation in the DI.....

I have read many reports that even individuals with mega expensive streamers with the very best power supplies and noise rejection still often find that cables and reclockers make a difference.

There is a relatively recent write up on "audiobacon" about the innuos phoenix usb regenerator and the author claims that it even improves things when used after the Zenith,- which is supposedly a world class streamer......

Again- maybe Fred understands, but I don't.. My hunch is that these things are so much more complex than we understand.

My question is why does Kingwa not agree with us???? I have a hunch he has good ears.

 

[rsbrsvp]

@rsbrsvp how big a difference did the hdmi isolator make?

I need some time to evaluate. I am busy for the next few days.... so hopefully next week.

 

[FredA]

USB cables make a huge difference to my ears as sell which they should not of there is complete isolation in the DI.....

I have read many reports that even individuals with mega expensive streamers with the very best power supplies and noise rejection still often find that cables and reclockers make a difference.

There is a relatively recent write up on "audiobacon" about the innuos phoenix usb regenerator and the author claims that it even improves things when used after the Zenith,- which is supposedly a world class streamer......

Again- maybe Fred understands, but I don't.. My hunch is that these things are so much more complex than we understand.

My question is why does Kingwa not agree with us???? I have a hunch he has good ears.

Kingwa has good ears obviously but did not own a high-quality streamer last time i checked. He plays files directly from a portable Mac.

 

[PLGA]

Well, I found that, to my ears, the W4S RUR, the AQ Jitterbug, a good USB cable (Curious Evolved) and a USB A-B adaptor (replacing a DH Labs USB cable) made a difference when they were connected between my SOtM SMS-200 Ultra Neo (wich I understand is a fine streamer) and my DI-20.

I haven't done more tests, but once I feel the difference, I don't do it anymore. Maybe I can try again latter on, but I'm kind of lazy and for me the difference must be clear when I try them. If I have to strugle to find it, it's not worthwile.

+1 for understanding less every day!

 

[sajunky]

I know Kingwa says NOT to put any isolation between the computer and the DI, but my experience is that the results are better with the uptone device. I have a SOTM-usb TX ultra SE as well and it improves things even more than the regen when placed between my pc and my DI.

I do not understand why this is so- but I am confident that I am not the only one who can identify that this is the result.

Can you describe in details what is your setup on PC? I mean player, configuration, output driver mode?

 

[FredA]

Indeed, in any case a very good linear and regulated power supply on the USBridge Sig. can just improve things globally, such as the Shanti or similar .... garbage in => garbage out works always )))

Got a Shanti 400kms away. Arriving soon. I like its laid back and relax presention compared to the more forward SimpleBest. A matter of tastes. I did a/b both when my friend brought his shanti over. Bought one right after. Also, the 2A the SimpleBest produces is likely a little short, given i plug a usb stick and a usb wifi adaptor into the usbridge. The SimpleBest was tuned for a rpi4 so...

 

[PhMZ4]

On the side of the USB cables, as already said by FredA there no error correction and resend mechanism on USBAudio, therefore the difference one hear between those cables are along the following main factors reducing the noise induced by the cable and the interferences induced to the signal:

1. shielding quality for RFI/EMI
2. cable impedance matching between source and DAC (reflected signal issue), a well linked to cable length
3. are the power conductors separated and accordingly properly isolated from the data conductors in the cable design
4. to a less impacting level the surface treatment of the cables and their nature as on these high frequencies the conduction occurs closer to the surface

Of course the noise level of the source will play a significant role, as the binary signal will be embedded within more or less noise (at different frequencies) altering the incoming signal from the USB port to the digital interface or DAC.

To conclude, the better your source power noise level will be, the better will be the overall signal incoming downstream and therefore needing less components “in the middle” which certainly helps in mitigating some noise level issues, but on the other hand add some reclocking artifacts which will never be compensated by any downstream improved clocks.... again, garbage in....garbage out.... there is no magic.

 

[rsbrsvp]

So I understand that many believe that error correction can never be as good as error prevention. The problem with this is I just read a report from a fellow who has a 25k streamer and replaced it with a 400 dollar pc and placed a sotm usbtx ultra between the pc and his dac with a superb lps and his conclusion was that it was equal to his streamer.

SO I'M NOT SURE WHAT I BELIEVE.

 

[borrego]

So I understand that many believe that error correction can never be as good as error prevention. The problem with this is I just read a report from a fellow who has a 25k streamer and replaced it with a 400 dollar pc and placed a sotm usbtx ultra between the pc and his dac with a superb lps and his conclusion was that it was equal to his streamer.

SO I'M NOT SURE WHAT I BELIEVE.

If it's done right, a PC can be as good as any streamer. Considering all modern digital music are produced using PC, computer cannot be that bad.

 

[PhMZ4]

So I understand that many believe that error correction can never be as good as error prevention. The problem with this is I just read a report from a fellow who has a 25k streamer and replaced it with a 400 dollar pc and placed a sotm usbtx ultra between the pc and his dac with a superb lps and his conclusion was that it was equal to his streamer.

SO I'M NOT SURE WHAT I BELIEVE.

That’s not exactly what I meant. The better your incoming signal is the less correction will you need downwards... the problem being that most of the correction means or algorithms we use, have some drawbacks by adding other issues on other dimensions while correcting the dimension they are supposed to correct.
So it’s definitely ending in a balanced design where the efforts have to be balanced between striving for the best incoming signal and a moderated spread of corrections all along the system chain... the overall coherence of the system is the key.

 

[sajunky]

That’s not exactly what I meant. The better your incoming signal is the less correction will you need downwards... the problem being that most of the correction means or algorithms we use, have some drawbacks by adding other issues on other dimensions while correcting the dimension they are supposed to correct.

There is no error correction on USB isochronous transfers (all audio transfers). There is no data redundancy required for fixing errors, similar to CD media. You said this already, it is a fact. There is only CRC and a receiving device has only option to drop a frame and fill-up output stream with zero samples. It is why quality of a cable matters.

 

[sajunky]

@rsbrsvp. Any details of your PC software setup?

 

[rsbrsvp]

I JUST USE A MAC MINI 2018.

I play with Amarra.

I have a SOTM usb tx ultra between my MAC and dI 20HE . The sotm is hooked up to a mutec clock as is the DI20HE as is my R7HE. The SOTM is powered by a mojo AUDIO illuminati lps.

THAT'S PRETTY MUCH THE STORY.

 

[UsoppNoKami]

@/usoppnokami: I’m observing you have the ISO Regen between your Allo USBridge Signature and your DI20HE. I’m pretty sure the sound will be better without the ISO Regen when you will have received the R7HE (2021) and its improved HDMI isolation, as reclocking upfront from the DI20HE will just alter the good outgoing signal from the Allo, and your DI20HE has all galvanic isolation and more accurate clocking needed, compared to the ISO. Let’s give it a try and please give us your feedback.

hola... the reason I have the ISOregen in the chain is due to the positioning of my gear - i run a long USB cable from where the Allo USBridgeSig is sitting, to the DI-20HE. I like how it sounds with the ISOregen in with this limitation that I need to use a long USB cable.

We are planning to move houses next year, if it happens the layout will be optimised as I will build a dedicated A/V room. Probably wont have the ISOregen then, if I can run a short USB run from Allo to DI-20HE, tho I will still try both ways and see.