Mar 19, 2012 at 11:41 PM Post #4,532 of 11,522
I'll have a little surprise about the new LCD3, but not before I beat a dead horse to death.
 
Best, good, POS, or whatever depends upon the person. One approach to these things is to explain one's personal preferences and go from there. I will make a short story long, and hopefully this will give people an idea where Anax, Sachu, me, a few others maybe, are coming from in terms of the Leben. Many years ago, in the 1990s, I was in the market for a DAC / CD-Player. There used to be more Hi-Fi shops back then because the Internet was just in its infancy. I actually used an early version of the Mozilla web browser, and the World Wide Web, as it was known back then, was an extremely boring place. There was no porn, there was no shopping, it just consisted of cheesy HTML pages on various academic subjects.
 
So anyways, I auditioned lots of gear at this store in Michigan which included some well known names such as Linn, Rega, Classe, CAL, etc. Of course the holy grail back then was to find a DAC or CD Player that sounded more like vinyl - since vinyl wasn't that far removed from the world back then. I went through a couple of DACs and CD Players, and I did mention to the salesperson, that I wished digital could have the resolution and smoothness of turntables. The sales guy said, "well you might want to try this." He brought out some California Audio Labs DAC that had a tube circuit it in. I listened to it, and upon the first note, I thought was "What! This is not analog, this is muddy mid-bass bloated warm gooey crap that imitates the worst of vinyl and carries over the few of the advantages of digital such as clarity and control." This in a nutshell is how I heard the Leben. Maybe it isn't that bad. It's a matter of preference. To me, it is that bad. This kind of sound ellicits a very strong response from me. To this day it makes me very very angry - like Bruce Banner turning in the hulk angry. Your opinion may be diametrically opposite from mine, and that's OK.
 
So my perceptions of the Leben exactly mirror those of Anax's, in the succinct terms that he put them in. In terms of Sachu's "distortion" comment, I assume that he is referring to the muddiness, a sign of high amounts of distortion, or lack of control of the LCD3 driver which results in loose bass and shouty mids. The Leben literally goes "blub blub blub, blub blub blub, blub blub" with the LCD3 and even the HD800. I can totally see why people would like the HD800 matched with the Leben, but to me, why take so much away from HD800s strengths just to cover its weaknesses and try turn in into something that it's not supposed to be in the first place? Better off with the baseline Bottlehead Crack, unless you drive speakers too, are simply curious, or want bragging rights because this amp ain't cheap.
 
So hopefully this will give readers a better understanding about this amp than what current exists on HF (top 10 lists, simplistic qualifiers, reviews lacking criticism, etc.) It's tough trying to explain things in words. Finally, these impressions were of the headphone out - which probably sounds very different from the speaker out. It's my understanding, based on the 6 Moons review, that the headphone out is tapped from the speaker out. I don't know if this is true or not. If it's true, I would be curious about the circuit from the speaker out to headphone out, i.e. what the headphone output Z is. That itself could explain a lot of things.
 
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And as for the little surprise, I would like to confirm with those who have received their new un-veiled LCD3s:
 
The thin felt disc behind the cage was replaced with a ~2mm foam:

 
Maybe Audeze took a page from the TP mod.
wink_face.gif

 
Mar 20, 2012 at 1:30 AM Post #4,534 of 11,522
I am a 50-year-old old dog, been listening to a vinyl system base on a pair of Spendor SP-1 and AR turntable for 30 years.
Purrin's comment on Leben makes me realize for all these years, what I've been listening to is the worst of vinyl, that makes me very [size=small]depressed[/size].    
 
Mar 20, 2012 at 1:31 AM Post #4,535 of 11,522
I know the type of tube amp sound you're referring to purrin and I also hate it big time.  However, I think most people quite like that type of tube sound.  
 
As for the new foam on the back...it's about time!  I really wanna hear them now. :)  I posted a number of times that it seemed like the old foam was really suffocating the sound and making them sound more like a closed headphone.  It might not have as perfect a square wave now, but I bet it sounds way better.  I'll probably lug over the dynahi to the LA meet so I can get an idea of the sound in my own rig. 
 
Mar 20, 2012 at 1:39 AM Post #4,536 of 11,522


Quote:
I know the type of tube amp sound you're referring to purrin and I also hate it big time.  However, I think most people quite like that type of tube sound.  
 
As for the new foam on the back...it's about time!  I really wanna hear them now. :)  I posted a number of times that it seemed like the old foam was really suffocating the sound and making them sound more like a closed headphone.  It might not have as perfect a square wave now, but I bet it sounds way better.  I'll probably lug over the dynahi to the LA meet so I can get an idea of the sound in my own rig. 


Definitely worth it to check out.  When firing on all cylinders the LCD3 is serious business.  Purrin's replacement LCD3 does some things better and some things less favorable than the short lived LCD3 but it's still quite impressive.  I'll be considering an LCD4 r.2 if Sennheiser wants to keep screwing around w/ the HD700.
 
 
Mar 20, 2012 at 3:47 AM Post #4,537 of 11,522
Quote:
And as for the little surprise, I would like to confirm with those who have received their new un-veiled LCD3s:
The thin felt disc behind the cage was replaced with a ~2mm foam:

Well, that makes it easy then, I have a confirmed new one then. It sounded too great to be veiled anyway  ^_^;;
 
I also find your description of the Leben quite strong... is it really that much? I wonder how it is relative to the WA-2 I have which, despite being a tube amp, I would not characterize quite as colored. Of course I won't find out how it really sounds relative to your description unless I attend a meet since I won't be spending that much cash on an amp anytime soon...
 
Quote:
I am a 50-year-old old dog, been listening to a vinyl system base on a pair of Spendor SP-1 and AR turntable for 30 years.
Purrin's comment on Leben makes me realize for all these years, what I've been listening to is the worst of vinyl, that makes me very [size=small]depressed[/size].    

Why? Isn't the important thing that you enjoyed it as much as you did at the time? As much as I find this forum interesting, it seems that for some people the obsession with listening to music "accurately" gets in the way of just enjoying it...
 
On a side note, I find it quite ironic that this entire giant thread, in no small part about the problems with the LCD-3, starts with this first post:
"Just spoke w/them on the phone when inquiring about my repair (failed driver)."
o2smile.gif

 
 
Mar 20, 2012 at 4:36 AM Post #4,538 of 11,522
I am a 50-year-old old dog, been listening to a vinyl system base on a pair of Spendor SP-1 and AR turntable for 30 years.
Purrin's comment on Leben makes me realize for all these years, what I've been listening to is the worst of vinyl, that makes me very [size=small]depressed[/size].    


I don't like equiments that are sterilised, hardened, tasteless and forward. I won't call those type of SQ accurate at all, no mater how well they measured, because to me they are far from the sound in real world. Hell, those kind of sound are lifeless, IMO.
 
Mar 20, 2012 at 4:47 AM Post #4,540 of 11,522


Quote:
Had anybody tried LCD-3 with Audio-GD Phoenix?
 
Thanks.


Yes. That's my primary rig. It needs a very good DAC or source to go with it though. 
 
 
Mar 20, 2012 at 4:50 AM Post #4,541 of 11,522


Quote:
Yes. That's my primary rig. It needs a very good DAC or source to go with it though. 
 


A Moon 750D would probably be great. It works brilliantly with my Littledot Mk6+ and LCD-3 whenever I move my headphone stuff down to use it with the 750D in my main rig.
 
 
Mar 20, 2012 at 7:19 AM Post #4,542 of 11,522


Quote:
What is a $2k headphone meant to look and feel like?



Gee, I don't know. Something that actually looks classy and comfortable to wear, something like this maybe?
 

 
 


Quote:
Try holding the $5000 Stax 009, you will be disappointed if you think the LCD's don't feel like 2k phones, the STAX sure don't feel like 5K headphones... Until you hear them! Or the HD800's, light weight and plastic feeling. I have a feeling the only ones that would meet your requirement would be the new ones from FAD, solid SS!


 
All of those are significantly more comfortable to wear than the LCD2/3 and I'm sure I'm not the only one who won't mind trading some of its "industrial" look if it means that the first impressions of people whom first tried the thing in our local meets are not "why are these things so heavy?". 
tongue.gif

 
And I don't know, this LCD3 costs double than the LCD2 but it just screams of sheer neglect when it comes with the same arc assembly design which translates to the same ergonomics issues that its predecessor suffer. It is just a shame because an unveiled LCD3 sounds really awesome and can give the 007 pictured above a run for their money but as a whole package, it's still somewhat lacking. 
 
Mar 20, 2012 at 8:49 AM Post #4,543 of 11,522
I actually didn't find the Stax O2 comfortable. The cups have no way to rotate, and it didn't fit my head right. But we have all different heads..  
Quote:
Gee, I don't know. Something that actually looks classy and comfortable to wear, something like this maybe?
 



 
 
Mar 20, 2012 at 9:35 AM Post #4,544 of 11,522


Quote:
All of those are significantly more comfortable to wear than the LCD2/3 and I'm sure I'm not the only one who won't mind trading some of its "industrial" look if it means that the first impressions of people whom first tried the thing in our local meets are not "why are these things so heavy?". 
tongue.gif


Funny. Never thought that when I first put the 2s on. Only after having them on for three hours did my head and neck start killing me that first month.
 
I'm on the other side. I don't want them to change the look of the LCDs. Over three months of use, these are so comfortable on my head. I have them on the second slot from the top. Everytime I put them on, it's a joy. I barely feel them, just a little bit. I love how expensive they look and showing it off to all my poor friends & family. And if the LCD-3s are really a little lighter like I've read, then I REALLY don't want them to change anything. And also, the Lambskin smell makes me want a grab a rifle and make me some leather shoes.
 
I do hope they make comfort improvements for the LCD-4 (and a new design too), but not at the cost of making it look like a toy, like the HE-500's design. It's black, which is nice, but it looks like plastic. The LCD combined with a Q cable makes a man...feel like a man. 
L3000.gif

 
 
 
Mar 20, 2012 at 10:19 AM Post #4,545 of 11,522


Quote:
 
So hopefully this will give readers a better understanding about this amp than what current exists on HF (top 10 lists, simplistic qualifiers, reviews lacking criticism, etc.) It's tough trying to explain things in words. Finally, these impressions were of the headphone out - which probably sounds very different from the speaker out. It's my understanding, based on the 6 Moons review, that the headphone out is tapped from the speaker out. I don't know if this is true or not. If it's true, I would be curious about the circuit from the speaker out to headphone out, i.e. what the headphone output Z is. That itself could explain a lot of things.
 


A "better understanding" of the Leben comes only from a cross section of viewpoints, not from one person's - not Purrin's, not mine, or anyone other individual's.  I hope readers will recognize that.
 
The headphone out of the Leben is a secondary, 32 ohm winding of the output transformer.  The Leben is output transformer coupled, and so both of the speaker outs (4 ohm and 8 ohm taps) are from the same output transformer as the headphone out is.  So it's doubtful to me that the sound would be very different from one to the other, and indeed, my experience was that the sound was identical, although given the impedance difference, more or less power will be available from one or the other depending on the load attached.
 
Love the sound or hate it, that's what it's all about.  But opinions are nothing more that that, opinions.  Plenty of people like the Leben, plenty of people don't.  This should surprise no one.
 
 

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