[Olias of Sunhillow]

Quote:

So I see where you're coming from and you can see where I am coming from. 

 
Definitely, and well said. If I didn't have something else to listen to -- and didn't enter into the deal without expecting something like this -- I probably would have been ready to kill as well.
 
I think it has a lot to do with expectations. I'd never be OK with "de facto beta testing" for something like a car, because I don't really care about car development and just need something that gets me to and from work.

 
 

 

[WarriorAnt]

 
Quote:

This is definitely one of the biggest improvements over the LCD-2s. I'm hearing sound staging in my rig that competes with my T1s (and slightly better than my now sold HE-6s). I thought this was a limitation of orthos, but I guess not.
 

If I could only get you to try the Venom 3 on your W4S DAC-2 that LCD soundstage would really increase.  Hmm I may have to send you one.

 

[WarriorAnt]

Quote:

 
Definitely, and well said. If I didn't have something else to listen to -- and didn't enter into the deal without expecting something like this -- I probably would have been ready to kill as well.
 
I think it has a lot to do with expectations. I'd never be OK with "de facto beta testing" for something like a car, because I don't really care about car development and just need something that gets me to and from work.
 

Normally I wouldn't care about car development either but I want my next car to be totally electric and I can't see buying the first couple of generations.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

 


If I could only get you to try the Venom 3 on your W4S DAC-2 that LCD soundstage would really increase.  Hmm I may have to send you one.

I've got a DH Labs Power Plus Power Cord already on my DAC-2. But if you'd like to send me a Venom 3, no one's stopping you.

 

 
 

 

[WarriorAnt]

Quote:

I've got a DH Labs Power Plus Power Cord already on my DAC-2. But if you'd like to send me a Venom 3, no one's stopping you.

 

I almost asked you what the voltage in Canada was, then I realized it wouldn't matter...

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

I almost asked you what the voltage in Canada was, then I realized it wouldn't matter...

 

 

[Jian]

There are plenty of materials that don't rust, regardless of the environment. I would've expected one of them to be used in a $2000 pair of headphones.

Then there will be a lot of expensive electronic gadgets you should avoid. For example, high end cameras, hifi rigs and cables.It really depends on when did the rusty thing happen. If the LCD3 is shipped this way, of course they should replace it. But out in the open in a climate like HK or SG, a rusty screw is the least you should expect. If you leave your dslr camera on the table rather than in a dry box, you get screwed; if you leave your hifi cable out, they turn green; hell even the stainless steel gets rusty here in spring and summer. And I don't think Nikon will replace the camera, and ALO audio for sure won't ( I've tried!).That's why I'm saying "audeze's too nice". I find rusty screws in cd players or pre/power amps worth tens of thounds of dollars not unusual in hong kong. So I personally think a rusty screw or two in hong kong doesn't count for a defect at all.

 

[dj nellie]

So I got back my replacement LCD-3s today.  Interestingly, the serial number is the same but it seems to be a different unit than the one I sent in.
 
The earpads on this unit definitely feel softer, more pliable, and more easily compressed with my thumbs.  The pads on my original unit seemed firmer, which actually led to discomfort for me.  So far, my new unit feels more comfortable to wear, and the clamping force seems slightly less than my last pair despite not having any break-in from being worn (unless they've been worn before by someone else).
 
For what it's worth, the new graph I received looks pretty similar to my old one, with the major differences being a bigger bump between 500-800hz, and the slope downward from 1k starts later (almost at 2k) and decreases more gradually.  There's also a bump between 3-6k that my old one didn't have.  I'm taking the graphs with a grain of salt, but in theory what frequency band would have the most effect on vocals and the perception of a "veil"?
 
As for the sound, it's still early and I can only compare this unit with the memory of my old one.  But either the week without my LCD-3 made my heart grow fonder for its sound, or this one has subtle improvements over my last one, because I'm hard-pressed to find things I don't like about it.  There aren't any dramatic differences that I can pinpoint so far, but I do feel that the vocals on certain songs which I felt were a bit too laid-back and now a bit more prominent.  And it's possible that the treble has slightly more bite and energy to it.
 
Listening to the XRCD24 remaster of Ella Fitzgerald's "Clap Hands, Here Comes Charlie!" is just a magical experience.  Ella's voice is coming through with pristine clarity, as if she were singing inside my head.  And the dynamic range of her voice is apparent between different songs; on the more bombastic tracks, like "Music Goes 'Round", it's easy to hear her effortlessly projecting her voice above the band, while during ballads like "You're My Thrill," her voice is reduced to a more husky, restrained level that blends well with the soft piano and bass accompaniment.
 
I should also note that I'm using Venom 3 cables for my DAC and amp (thanks to WarriorAnt), which I feel improved the visceral attack, soundstage, and dynamic range of the LCD-3s.  I had been using the cables for a few weeks before I sent the LCD-3s back, so it's not a change in my equipment with the new unit--it just might help explain some of my satisfaction with the LCD-3's technical ability.  These definitely don't feel like excessively laid-back cans.
 
So I can't say for sure whether my unit has any significant differences, but the bottom line is I'm happy to have my LCD-3s back.  While my LCD-3s were away, I had convinced myself that I needed HD800s to have a headphone with better comfort and soundstage, but now I'm not so sure...

 

[Olias of Sunhillow]

Day 6 with my LCD-3 back from Audez'e. I'm pleased to say that "the veil" has not shown itself in 20+ hours of listening. I find myself listening to -- and enjoying -- recordings that I never could have tolerated on the LCD-3 before I sent them back for testing. Case in point: I'm currently listening to Johann Johannsson's Englaborn, a kind of chamber/electronic album with lots of sonic details and shifting textures. While I'm sure that using, say, the HD800 would be a rather different listening experience, I do not get the sense that I'm missing anything with the LCD-3. They sound quite nice with this somewhat difficult recording.
 
I've always felt that it's a bit of a process to adapt to the Audez'e "house sound" -- they don't A/B very well because they go about their business in a way that's very different from most top-tier dynamics. After a few days of listening (both straight from my m903 and with the Liquid Fire), I'm very much enjoying what I'm hearing.

 

[Silent One]

Quote:

Day 6 with my LCD-3 back from Audez'e. I'm pleased to say that "the veil" has not shown itself in 20+ hours of listening. I find myself listening to -- and enjoying -- recordings that I never could have tolerated on the LCD-3 before I sent them back for testing. Case in point: I'm currently listening to Johann Johannsson's Englaborn, a kind of chamber/electronic album with lots of sonic details and shifting textures. While I'm sure that using, say, the HD800 would be a rather different listening experience, I do not get the sense that I'm missing anything with the LCD-3. They sound quite nice with this somewhat difficult recording.
 
I've always felt that it's a bit of a process to adapt to the Audez'e "house sound" -- they don't A/B very well because they go about their business in a way that's very different from most top-tier dynamics. After a few days of listening (both straight from my m903 and with the Liquid Fire), I'm very much enjoying what I'm hearing.

By chance, are your cans listed in order of preference or just listed? How's the Bass on the LCD-3? With some of the corrections coming back, I'm finally taking a closer look at what can they do for me? Will try to seek out a pair for auditioning. 

 

[sphinxvc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent One /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
I'm finally taking a closer look at what can they do for me? 

  That's starting to creep up on me too.
 
I also want to see what the other manufacturers can do at the $2K mark, mainly Hifiman or Sennheiser.

 

[Olias of Sunhillow]

Quote:

By chance, are your cans listed in order of preference or just listed? How's the Bass on the LCD-3? With some of the corrections coming back, I'm finally taking a closer look at what can they do for me? Will try to seek out a pair for auditioning. 

Preference... as of last week.

 
Bass is exceptional -- deep and tight. I think that both the HD800 and HE-6 go slightly deeper, but the LCD-3 are just exactly perfect in terms of quantity and neck and neck in quality.
 

 

[temporaryname]

Quote:

Quote:

  That's starting to creep up on me too.
 
I also want to see what the other manufacturers can do at the $2K mark, mainly Hifiman or Sennheiser.

That is not something I want manufacturers to aim for. The cost of diminishing returns is already ridiculously high. I know this hobby corrupts our sense of what is considered expensive but think about it.... $2000 for just one pair of headphones*! Ask anyone who isn't an audiophile if that sounds reasonable. For that price I expect a life time warranty, extreme comfort and perpetual aural orgasm with no driver failures or veil issues interrupting my enjoyment of music. But we don't get that....
 
What I want manufacturers to aim for is the same or better sound quality of the LCD-3's, better comfort and warranty at a better price. We should be driving technological progress forward whilst increasing competition to reduce silly market prices. I was really happy when Hifiman and Audeze brought out their HE-500's and LCD2's, which you can get for $699 and $945 respectively, because they sounded superior (or matched, more or less based on personal preference) to all expensive dynamic headphones I've heard to date, without shooting past the $1000 mark.
 
I'm all for luxury and high standards of quality and technical prowess, but despite how good the LCD-3's might sound, they have a high profit margin and I feel that we might be taken for a ride. If they came in at $1250 or similar, I imagine other headphone manufacturers would be putting in a lot more effort to produce better headphones and provide better goods and services to their customer base at more reasonable rates in order to compete. But because they're so highly priced, the LCD-3's don't threaten traditional headphone manufacturers because they're just too out of reach of the general consumer. Just imagine what offerings, savings or sq improvements we might be presented with from the competition if the LCD-3's were more competitively priced?
 
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for great sounding headphones. I just think there would be more of them at more affordable prices if there wasn't such stagnation from high price points.
 
(*for a headphone that is essentially the same build and everything as it's $945 counter part, besides the LOTUS driver and zebra wood - essentially $1000 for an sq improvement, not so much for cost of materials in my humble, reasonably uninformed opinion)
 
END ESSAY lol

 
{EDIT: removed 'stupidly' from before 'high profit margin'. Don't want to be misunderstood as having an opinion stronger than what it actually is}

 

[Silent One]

Quote:

Preference... as of last week.

 
Bass is exceptional -- deep and tight. I think that both the HD800 and HE-6 go slightly deeper, but the LCD-3 are just exactly perfect in terms of quantity and neck and neck in quality.
 

You're a fine example of winters done right in Colorado! 

 

[Jian]

That is not something I want manufacturers to aim for. The cost of diminishing returns is already ridiculously high. I know this hobby corrupts our sense of what is considered expensive but think about it.... $2000 for just one pair of headphones*! Ask anyone who isn't an audiophile if that sounds reasonable. For that price I expect a life time warranty, extreme comfort and perpetual aural orgasm with no driver failures or veil issues interrupting my enjoyment of music. But we don't get that....
 
What I want manufacturers to aim for is the same or better sound quality of the LCD-3's, better comfort and warranty at a better price. We should be driving technological progress forward whilst increasing competition to reduce silly market prices. I was really happy when Hifiman and Audeze brought out their HE-500's and LCD2's, which you can get for $699 and $945 respectively, because they sounded superior (or matched, more or less based on personal preference) to all expensive dynamic headphones I've heard to date, without shooting past the $1000 mark.
 
I'm all for luxury and high standards of quality and technical prowess, but despite how good the LCD-3's might sound, they have a stupidly high profit margin and I feel that we're all getting taken for a ride. If they came in at $1250 or similar, I imagine other headphone manufacturers would be putting in a lot more effort to produce better headphones and provide better goods and services to their customer base at more reasonable rates in order to compete. But because they're so highly priced, the LCD-3's don't threaten traditional headphone manufacturers because they're just too out of reach of the general consumer. Just imagine what offerings, savings or sq improvements we might be presented with from the competition if the LCD-3's were more competitively priced?
 
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for great sounding headphones. I just think there would be more of them at more affordable prices if there wasn't such stagnation from high price points.
 
(*for a headphone that is essentially the same build and everything as it's $945 counter part, besides the LOTUS driver and zebra wood - essentially $1000 for an sq improvement, not so much for cost of materials in my humble, reasonably uninformed opinion)
 
END ESSAY lol

So you think lcd3 is too expensive and has a "stupidly high profit"? Believe me in the hifi business, of all components of a system, the headphone, even as expensive as lcd3 is the least profitable equipment. I think the lcd3 is expensive, but it worth every penny I paid for. Welcome to hifi world.