[VNandor]

I'm going to respond you one last time.
 
The idea to define naturality of audio reproduction through subjective evaluation is definitely useful in some areas, for example when people discuss headphones' sound and their opinions about how they sound.
 
When you want to make a neutral/linear transcuder  or an amplifier, or make a record or design a studio, you can't rely on that and you must have a more objective approach in order to get succeed.
 
This discussion should be about what makes something an objectively neutral audio reproduction, the objective concept of neutraliity and before you ask, yes such theories exist.

 

[edulov]

How weird, I checked suggested information I did not found anything valid.

 

[jcx]

just not in commercial music production - http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/10/audios-circle-of-confusion.html

 

[edulov]

  just not in commercial music production - http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/10/audios-circle-of-confusion.html

I missed this one, but some of the information appeared in other publications. 100% agree, I saw bass problems many times, so when people keep insisting in speakers as reference sound device I can make a grinny smile only.
 
BTW, in science there are 2 ways of investigation. Since walking forward will never work, we can start from the contrary.
Please make a list of specs/FRC/effects/colorations which definitely should not be found in natural/balanced sound.
 
Anyone?!

 

[castleofargh]

seems like a boring task for something that may not really exist when reaching our ears from a sound system(what tolerance should we accept for specs when some people will call vinyls+colored amp, natural and balanced?).

 

[watchnerd]

 
 
 
Maybe I just listen to music that has an above average production, where hidden details are added and new experiences are always to discover. So the positives outweigh the negatives.
 

 
This is the key.
 
Great recordings usually sound better on gear with more resolving power.  Crappy recordings often sound worse.  Or even much worse.
 
If one listens to a lot of poorly produced recordings, "fun", colored transducers can sound better than neutral, more revealing ones.
 
That's pretty much all there is to it.

 

[gregorio]

  I saw bass problems many times, so when people keep insisting in speakers as reference sound device I can make a grinny smile only.

 
All small rooms have bass problems and by small I mean large living room size and smaller. If we don't use speakers, what should we use? Headphones are the only other option and mixing on headphones introduces all kinds of issues unless the mix is only going to be played back on headphones.
 
Quote:

  [1] BTW, in science there are 2 ways of investigation. Since walking forward will never work, we can start from the contrary.
[2] Please make a list of specs/FRC/effects/colorations which definitely should not be found in natural/balanced sound.

 
1. It doesn't matter which direction you approach the issue from, it's still the same issue!
 
2. Ideally, it would have no colourations, effects or FRC and therefore be flat and, an RT60 of about 0.4 secs. There's two problems with this though: 1. It's not possible to make a small room have a flat frequency response and 2. Not only would all the studios who produce music need to be flat but all the consumer listening environments would as well. Neither #1 or #2 are ever going to happen and, whatever other sensible specs you come up with is going to have the exact same problem!
 
G

 

[edulov]

Going back to #49.
Some research from H&K are well done, but they are talking about monitor speakers alone. Most of similair attempts showed that adding subwoofer participants declared THIS sound more natural. In this conditions forget about flat FRC in lows. You will get what most readers here call bass cans. If you want vibrant sound, you will need also a rise of FRC for high treble. Whis will lead us not to the U-shaped, but close to ELC curve. Even if you hate it. But I hate dull sound.
 
#52. Most sound related descriptions refer to our abstract natural/balanced sound. This way they are useless. But some of them could be taught as-is, w/o measuring RFC. Just by samples with detailed descriptions.