[ProtegeManiac]

ProtegeManiac: Yes, I know how this works. In the case of my amp & speakers, it was sheer luck more than trial and error. I just bought what I was able in our narrow crazy-priced market, and these two happened to fell in love at first sight. It's part of the fun, I guess -although when there's no chance to return what you don't like, it's a different kind of game and a different kind of fun.

As long as you're aware of those risks.

 

[JediMa70]

ProtegeManiac: Yes, I know how this works. In the case of my amp & speakers, it was sheer luck more than trial and error. I just bought what I was able in our narrow crazy-priced market, and these two happened to fell in love at first sight. It's part of the fun, I guess -although when there's no chance to return what you don't like, it's a different kind of game and a different kind of fun.

JediMa70: Thanks! So you think the K702 would get along better with my HD650 than his (her?) siblings? May I ask you why?

Because I tried to achieve your same results from the opposite side, I had K702 but they were sounding too close to my HD600 (beside the impressive soundstage that you will find with the AKG..) that are the same one that you also considered to buy as complementary for your hd650 ( I agree with your decision, they are really too close to spend that amount of money). So I bought the AKG 712 that are similar to 712 but with nice and warm bass (like your HD650). It's extremely emphirical but for my ears .

 

[yvv]

I would listen to the HD580 or the HD600. Despite belonging to the same 6x0 family the HD600 differs significantly. The frequency response is probably the closest to being flat among all headphones. Whether it goes well with you chain and your ears is another thing. I have them all and only use the HD650. The HD580 and the HD600 have the notorious 3K peak that makes them shouty on operatic vocals. If you don't listen to classical it might not matter. Just my 2 cents

 

[laotsu]

Check out the PSB M4U-1. The red ones are on sale at Amazon for $106. I think they used to cost $250 - $300. They are neutral sounding and quite revealing. And at that price you can probably purchase another pair later.

 

[fedocable]

Thanks a lot for the inputs. I guess the K702 are my best candidate after all. The only possible qualm is that they are not so high impedance (63 ohms), so I wonder if they'd get along well with my OTL Valhalla 2 -the amp I'd use most of the time with them.

Update. Second thoughts. I've done a little browsing, and apparently the K702s, being lowish impedance and low sensitivity would be a really bad match for the Valhalla. I should look elsewhere. How about the ATH-R70X? Anyone?

 

[Deftone]

Thanks a lot for the inputs. I guess the K702 are my best candidate after all. The only possible qualm is that they are not so high impedance (63 ohms), so I wonder if they'd get along well with my OTL Valhalla 2 -the amp I'd use most of the time with them.

Update. Second thoughts. I've done a little browsing, and apparently the K702s, being lowish impedance and low sensitivity would be a really bad match for the Valhalla. I should look elsewhere. How about the ATH-R70X? Anyone?

Those AKGs soak up power like a sponge to water. I had to have K712 at 2 o clock and HD650 at 11 o clock.

 

[fedocable]

Oh. Then I'm at a loss here. On one hand, I find people who are very happy with the Valhalla-K702 combo. On the other hand, a very technical warning according to which the high output impedance of an OTL could actually EQ the sound of low sensitivity cans like the AKGs, to make the bass louder...

Update: Doubt sent to Schiit. Let's see what they reply.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Oh. Then I'm at a loss here. On one hand, I find people who are very happy with the Valhalla-K702 combo. On the other hand, a very technical warning according to which the high output impedance of an OTL could actually EQ the sound of low sensitivity cans like the AKGs, to make the bass louder...

Update: Doubt sent to Schiit. Let's see what they reply.

Here's one way of looking at it. By name, the amplifier's job description is to "amplify" the input signal, not reshape it, whether or not that depends on the load.

If you just want to reshape the sound, an equalizer is easier to use and is more precise, ie it involves a lot less dice rolling.

 

[Monsterzero]

Most OTLs dont do low ohm headphones like the K701/2 very well. Having no experience with Schiit tube amps,im curious to see what they say.

I will toss a dark horse candidate into the fray- Sennheiser HD250. It can be found in either a 300 or 600 ohm version,so both should be a good fit with your amp.
There are a couple issues with this headphone however.

1. Its so good you wont ever listen to your HD650 again. I sold my HD650 after I bought the HD250 because its so much better,and really highlighted all the flaws that HD650s actually have,namely detail and bass. I will give the mids to the HD650,but owning other headphones with better mids, I had no second thoughts about dumping them.

2. Its discontinued,and fairly hard to find. One popped up in the FS/T section a few weeks ago and was snapped up within 24 hours and it now resides in India. Occasionally you can find one on eBay,with prices ranging from 200-500.00.
I found mine for 75.00 shipped. Best 75.00 Ive ever spent in this hobby.

Here's my review of it I did awhile back



I think it sounds different enough from the HD650 to give you that change youre looking for.

 

[fedocable]

Thanks, Monsterzero. I'll keep an eye open for a *cheap* used pair of HD250 (now they are costing over 500 bucks in ebay).
In the meanwhile, I've done some further browsing, and confirmed that everybody who uses or used the Valhalla 2 - K702 combo are in fact very happy with them. Apparently that low-gain switch (3.5 ohms) does work fine. I'll just give the last word to Schiit.
Will keep you posted.

 

[Monsterzero]

Thanks, Monsterzero. I'll keep an eye open for a *cheap* used pair of HD250 (now they are costing over 500 bucks in ebay).

Yeah that pair has been on eBay for ages. I'd save an eBay search for them.

Between the HD250 and K701...The most noticeable difference is the bass. Bass on HD250 is huge,both in slam and extension. Because of that bass I like it for electronica,trance,reggae,psybient and some rock.

The staging on both headphones is very good,but the K701 is wider and deeper but it seems to be quite amp dependant. Thru the Gilmore Lite Mk2 the staging and musicality of the K701 wasnt very impressive and they hung on my wall of sound for months un-used. Once I discovered 6336 tubes could be used on my GOTL(dont try the 6336s on your Schiit !!!!) it really turned both the K701 and HD250s into fantastic sounding headphones. The staging on the K701 is quite impressive. It has a more neutral sound vs. HD250,where no aspect of the sound seems emphasized. It sounds more refined to my ears.

Detail I'd give to HD250s.

TL;DR

HD250=fun,detail,bass
K701=mature,refined,staging

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Most OTLs don't do low ohm headphones like the K701/2 very well. Having no experience with Schiit tube amps,im curious to see what they say.

In the meanwhile, I've done some further browsing, and confirmed that everybody who uses or used the Valhalla 2 - K702 combo are in fact very happy with them. Apparently that low-gain switch (3.5 ohms) does work fine. I'll just give the last word to Schiit.

I would guess it wouldn't boost much less make them into tin cans the way the LD MKII is on the K701, but given the lower power output at low impedance I wouldn't be surprised if the percussion sounds a little bit gutless compared to the Asgard (let alone the Burson Soloist/Conductor and Violectrics) or even something like a Meier Headfive (which people who like impedance-caused boosting or listening at really loud volume with very powerful amps find too "flat and boring").

As long as you don't expect the K702 to sound anywhere near what it sounds like with something like an NFB-11 (let alone a Conductor), the Valhalla2 can work fine as long as ambient noise is also low.

 

[fedocable]

Thanks again, ProtegeManiac. That's a sensible head-up. Nop, I wouldn't like to make such compromises, that's why I'm bothering you all here.
On the other hand, this is Schiit's reply to my query:
"I think that the K702's sound great with the Valhalla 2 and normally use high gain. To me it warms them up a bit and the bass is indeed better (to me) than with a solid-state amp."

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Thanks again, ProtegeManiac. That's a sensible head-up. Nop, I wouldn't like to make such compromises, that's why I'm bothering you all here.
On the other hand, this is Schiit's reply to my query:
"I think that the K702's sound great with the Valhalla 2 and normally use high gain. To me it warms them up a bit and the bass is indeed better (to me) than with a solid-state amp."

Low gain impedance isn't an issue, power and gain are.

High gain is where gain is compensating for when power should be what it gets, and that "warms up" is caused by the higher impedance at high gain. Although playing it louder also means hearing the low end more.

 

[serman005]

Heard back from Grover at Schiit. He said: "...as far as I know, Jason has said that you CAN use efficient planars with this (Valhalla 2) if you want, though it certainly won't drive something like an HE-6 or an Abyss 1266 particularly easily. My personal experience is that it just doesn't have enough juice for some of the really hungry planars (Audeze, HiFiMAN, older ZMF) out there. If one wanted an OTL with planars, I'd suggest a much higher powered tube amp. That's just my personal experience, however, if someone finds this to be a good combo, we aren't here to tell them they're wrong. It'll run them, but it wouldn't be my first choice.An OTL in general wouldn't be my first choice, so YMMV. I know that's not the most commital answer, but I hope it helps.".

So, there you have it. I am not sure how helpful a reply this is (as he, himself offers), given all of the above experiences and comments. I guess it is up to us individually to figure out what works for us and then go with that. Whatever that happens to be...