[serman005]

I emailed Schiit to ask for support for their claim. We will see what they have to say.

 

[Monsterzero]

I have the K701 and I think theyre fantastic out of my GOTL,even with a bright tube roll I do not find them too bright,and im sensitive to bright highs...Theyre absolutely phenomenal.

Regarding OTLs and planars...

Usually it makes for a poor combo,however some amps like the La Figaro 339 and especially the Glenn OTL,which can take the 6336 tube,which is a low impedance tube, sounds brilliant with planars. Its also the power tubes I use for the K701

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Hey there. I've been an audio enthusiast for long years, but pretty new to the headphones world. I recently bought a Modi 3 - Valhalla 2 - HD650 combo to use while I'm working, and have been immediately sucked in and living inside of the headphones ever since. After much browsing in these forums I've decided to get another pair with the opposite sound signature, to switch them between different music genres and amps -that is: neutral & analytical instead of warm & mellow.
So, since you got this idea in my head, you better help me out here. Which one would you recommend for that purpose? I guess the obvious choice would probably be the HD600; but I also guess they are maybe too close to the HD650s, and I want something really different. How about the Beyerdynamic DT-1990 Pro instead?
Mind I would go for something in the same price range of the HD650 -around 500 bucks at most, no chance of getting anything fancy like Focals or HD800 unfortunately. The cheaper the better, of course. Also mind I'd prefer them to be high impedance, to get along with my Valhalla amp (I already have a nice low impedance pair to use on the go -the good old Momentums).
Thanks for any recommendation!

Why not just EQ the HD650? I mean, it's potentially free, or a heck of a lot cheaper. If you're using a PC just install Equalizer APO and put in this profile (fully customizable 31 band EQ setting):

20hz : +2dB*
30hz : +1dB*
45hz : -2dB
65hz : -2dB
90hz : -2dB
120hz : -2dB
180hz : -2dB
250hz : -2dB
350hz : -2dB
450hz : -2dB
600hz : -2dB
900hz : -2dB
1250hz : -2dB
2000hz : +2dB
5000hz : +4dB
5500hz : +5dB
6000hz : +4dB
7000hz : +4dB
8000hz : +3dB


*Optional

 

[fedocable]

Serman005: Wow, thank you. Schiit’s has always given me quick and thorough (and honest) replies to my emails, so let’s see what they have to say.

ProtegeManiac: I use Roon, which comes with a terrific Parametric EQ. I’ve applied Oratory preset for the HD650 (look in reddit for it, if you still haven’t; in general terms it runs exactly like yours, but with more abrupt and precise curves). The difference is slight. It does sound airier on the top and bigger on the bass (it rises more than 6db below 64hz!). I’ve modified it a bit, making the curves less pronounced, but more often than not I keep it off; I find that the natural sound of the HD650, even if a bit darker, is more relaxed and less fatiguing after long hours of listening.

Thanks for the suggestions. I think that at this point is better to keep planars out of the list, just in case. So the K701/2 are still my best contenders. How about the ATH-R70X? I think those are the ones Z is always raving about, and according to him they go in the same direction of the HD600, with a slightly different sound signature. They do cover all the points: open back, high impedance… neutral sound?

PS. Before someone brings it up: I have small ears, so those round pads of the R70 wouldn't be a problem.

 

[JediMa70]

Hey there. I've been an audio enthusiast for long years, but pretty new to the headphones world. I recently bought a Modi 3 - Valhalla 2 - HD650 combo to use while I'm working, and have been immediately sucked in and living inside of the headphones ever since. After much browsing in these forums I've decided to get another pair with the opposite sound signature, to switch them between different music genres and amps -that is: neutral & analytical instead of warm & mellow.
So, since you got this idea in my head, you better help me out here. Which one would you recommend for that purpose? I guess the obvious choice would probably be the HD600; but I also guess they are maybe too close to the HD650s, and I want something really different. How about the Beyerdynamic DT-1990 Pro instead?
Mind I would go for something in the same price range of the HD650 -around 500 bucks at most, no chance of getting anything fancy like Focals or HD800 unfortunately. The cheaper the better, of course. Also mind I'd prefer them to be high impedance, to get along with my Valhalla amp (I already have a nice low impedance pair to use on the go -the good old Momentums).
Thanks for any recommendation!

I would stick to the DT-1990 Pro , I had HifiMan He400i and I have He560 and they are a NO GO with an OTL

 

[JediMa70]

Why not just EQ the HD650? I mean, it's potentially free, or a heck of a lot cheaper. If you're using a PC just install Equalizer APO and put in this profile (fully customizable 31 band EQ setting):

20hz : +2dB*
30hz : +1dB*
45hz : -2dB
65hz : -2dB
90hz : -2dB
120hz : -2dB
180hz : -2dB
250hz : -2dB
350hz : -2dB
450hz : -2dB
600hz : -2dB
900hz : -2dB
1250hz : -2dB
2000hz : +2dB
5000hz : +4dB
5500hz : +5dB
6000hz : +4dB
7000hz : +4dB
8000hz : +3dB


*Optional

I know I asked already this.. but I lost the post -.-° which are the settings for HD600 to sound like a HD650? ty

 

[ProtegeManiac]

ProtegeManiac: I use Roon, which comes with a terrific Parametric EQ. I’ve applied Oratory preset for the HD650 (look in reddit for it, if you still haven’t; in general terms it runs exactly like yours, but with more abrupt and precise curves). The difference is slight. It does sound airier on the top and bigger on the bass (it rises more than 6db below 64hz!). I’ve modified it a bit, making the curves less pronounced, but more often than not I keep it off; I find that the natural sound of the HD650, even if a bit darker, is more relaxed and less fatiguing after long hours of listening.

Thanks for the suggestions. I think that at this point is better to keep planars out of the list, just in case. So the K701/2 are still my best contenders. How about the ATH-R70X? I think those are the ones Z is always raving about, and according to him they go in the same direction of the HD600, with a slightly different sound signature. They do cover all the points: open back, high impedance… neutral sound?

Differences tend to be "slight" because the HD650 response curve is fairly flat as it is. The problems with its curve (if you can call it that, as far as others are concerned) are that it's relatively strong below 1000hz than it is above 1000hz, which also comes with that dip centered on 5500hz.

If that isn't "complimentary" enough for you what you might need is a stark contrast to the HD650, which wouldn't necessarily be a neutral one, but a bright and critical one. with a boosted top end and maybe even a relatively early roll off at the bottom end. So to that effect maybe a K701 would be a better bet than a K702; or most fittingly, a DT990 or a DT880.

Note that I use the term "critical" as opposed to the more usual "analytical," since, if you look at it in social science terms, "analytical" is like a white paper discussing all the dimensions of a problem (which in audio terms is the recording), while "critical" is more like handing out political pamphlets. It's like the difference between most modern academic works and pamphlets that circulated in Boston or Paris in the late 18th C.

I know I asked already this.. but I lost the post -.-° which are the settings for HD600 to sound like a HD650? ty

On a graphic EQ:

20hz : +3dB
35dB : +2dB
3500hz : -3dB
5500hz : -3dB
8000hz : -4dB

 

[JediMa70]

Thank you

 

[fedocable]

Note that I use the term "critical" as opposed to the more usual "analytical," since, if you look at it in social science terms, "analytical" is like a white paper discussing all the dimensions of a problem (which in audio terms is the recording), while "critical" is more like handing out political pamphlets. It's like the difference between most modern academic works and pamphlets that circulated in Boston or Paris in the late 18th C.

Hahaha great euphemism for "treble boost"! You may have a very good point there: do I really want to read political pamphlets instead of -say- Orwell? Maybe not.
I'll disclose where I'm aiming here. My main setup is a little tube amp (Unison's Simply Italy) and a pair of Cabasses Altura Riva. Now, those speakers are known to be dry, analytical (not critical, mind), even boring, but in combo with the sweet and warm tubes they sound just glorious. I guess I'm -maybe wrongly- trying to follow that same path here: tube amp + analytical cans. Does that make any sense?

 

[elmoe]

If you want the "opposite" of the HD650 sound, then I would go for a pair of Grados, maybe RS-2e, they are a good bang for your buck.

I definitely would not call Grados "neutral" unless we're talking the PS series though.

That being said, to me the HD650s are pretty neutral.

 

[fedocable]

Good point. I might be chasing my own tail, looking for "neutrality". All the same, I know I'm not going to settle with just one pair.
From the comments I got here, I think I can narrow the choice to the K701/2/12 and the very HD600 (the threat of piercing trebles bans the DT-1990). I guess the first(s). But, then, which one?

 

[Deftone]

I had the HD650 and K712 at one time, they go together very well.

 

[JediMa70]

Good point. I might be chasing my own tail, looking for "neutrality". All the same, I know I'm not going to settle with just one pair.
From the comments I got here, I think I can narrow the choice to the K701/2/12 and the very HD600 (the threat of piercing trebles bans the DT-1990). I guess the first(s). But, then, which one?

702! I bought 712 as "complementary" to my HD600

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Hahaha great euphemism for "treble boost"! You may have a very good point there: do I really want to read political pamphlets instead of -say- Orwell? Maybe not.
I'll disclose where I'm aiming here. My main setup is a little tube amp (Unison's Simply Italy) and a pair of Cabasses Altura Riva. Now, those speakers are known to be dry, analytical (not critical, mind), even boring, but in combo with the sweet and warm tubes they sound just glorious. I guess I'm -maybe wrongly- trying to follow that same path here: tube amp + analytical cans. Does that make any sense?

It's hard to guess what exactly you'll end up with since tube distortion can go either way thanks to output impedance. Many tube amps have high impedance, particularly OTL amps but in some cases even transformer coupled amps, and unless someone can say exactly what it does with a particular headphone, you can end up turning a K712 into a DT990 or sort of like an XB500. Those that have low output impedance will have an even less drastic effect than the EQ that you say only has a slight effect...which depending on the headphone as well as your expectations may or may not be a good thing.

In other words, you're going into a whole lot of trial and error that might take a lot of both before you get what you want.

 

[fedocable]

ProtegeManiac: Yes, I know how this works. In the case of my amp & speakers, it was sheer luck more than trial and error. I just bought what I was able in our narrow crazy-priced market, and these two happened to fell in love at first sight. It's part of the fun, I guess -although when there's no chance to return what you don't like, it's a different kind of game and a different kind of fun.

JediMa70: Thanks! So you think the K702 would get along better with my HD650 than his (her?) siblings? May I ask you why?