[Bjornboy81]

Bonthouse is exactly right in my question. thanks for clearifying.

My guess is that you're not hearing the 40KHz itself, but rather sensing the modulation of the signal. With some serious signal processing you could probably do some prettty bad ass surround sound! 20.1 anyone!

 

[Jelle Schrijver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunneebear /img/forum/go_quote.gif 1. Wonder if it works like a cochlear implant for deaf people. Cochlear implants receive signals from a external transmitter and stimulates the auditory nerves directly. The deaf person does not hear true sound but a close interpretation. 2. If this Neurophone technology really works then why is it not used for the hearing impaired?

1) cochlear "feeds" small electric impulse to the thousends of nerves inside the cochlear, neurophone vibrates the "coupling" between these nerves and the "master" nerve to your brain.

2) Good point! That's one of the reasons i don not already have a neurophone! If you ask them about precived audio quality, you wount get a clear answer.

 

[Jelle Schrijver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitesymphony /img/forum/go_quote.gif If it's transmitting a ~40 kHz signal and it becomes audible, wouldn't that imply that humans can hear or detect signals that high? The commonly-accepted frequency range of human hearing (e.g. audibility) is 20 Hz-20 kHz. Just curious.

it is not the 40khz you're hearing, but the embedded (modulated) "normal" frequencies.

edit: The nerve barrier resonates on the 40khz in the manner of the imbedded normal freq sounds and thus the resonance follows the normal freq.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jelle Schrijver /img/forum/go_quote.gif it is not the 40khz you're hearing, but the embedded (modulated) "normal" frequencies.

Do you mean aural harmonics in the inner ear, or harmonic distortion / virtual harmonics from the system itself? It's not clear to me where or why a steady 40 kHz signal would be modulated.

The Neurophone and the Echophone seem to be following different concepts. If I read the information correctly, the Neurophone only plays back at 40 kHz, while the Echophone plays back a range between 400 Hz to even higher than 40 kHz. At least the Echophone's range is well within the known limits of hearing.

 

[Jelle Schrijver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by digitalmind /img/forum/go_quote.gif The transducers of the system; do they vibrate themselves or are they simple antennas?

vibration, simple piezo elements found in those "musical" greetingcards will do. There very cheap to buy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by digitalmind /img/forum/go_quote.gif A 40kHz AM transmitter is simple enough to build.

Not for me, hens the new tread...

Quote:

Originally Posted by digitalmind /img/forum/go_quote.gif If they vibrate themselves, it seems like a modification of this would get the same results. At the least, it'll get you a low-fi version of it. Those things can be picked up in stores for about €7,50 to €10. Might be worth getting one to see if you can get the same results outside of the mouth.

This is another (thou also very interesting) technology. It's called boneconducting and it works by fysicaly vibrate the cochlea and thus the small hears inside. That's making you hear. example.

Quote:

Originally Posted by digitalmind /img/forum/go_quote.gif Being able to identify two different seperate tones rather than a mixup of the two opens up a lot of possibilities, not just for music. Seems like a very cool project to play with! Can you pull the Neurophone patents? EDIT: Here's some interesting reading: Frequency transpositional hearing ... - Google Patents Nervous system excitation device - Google Patents Method and system for simplifying ... - Google Patents

you already found them!

Quote:

Originally Posted by digitalmind /img/forum/go_quote.gif How much does a Neurophone cost? Considering the time needed to build/design such a thing, buying one may well prove to be the much cheaper route.

Close, but no cigar. The price you found is the US price. The really bad news is that the will not sell to europe, you have to order here and her price is €650. What i am still missing is a stereo option (neurophone is mono). Also i've read reports that states that the analogue version was more bassy (which i am for). And i am not comfertable to put down so much cash for such a "simple" device. You can by it, experience it and if you don't like it, return for a refund. My problem is that my financial funds don't strech all the way to cover all my interest. So if i can do it cheap (and use my hard urned money on other interst), i am all up for it. The electronics can not be that expensive and the design is pretty straight forward. In my view it is building a AM device with a variable carrying frequencie. Feed it audio and connect to a piezo buzzer and where off. I am opting the analogue route hear, not the fancy DSP route. That's really above my head.

Quote:

Originally Posted by digitalmind /img/forum/go_quote.gif Maybe it's just me who hadn't heard of this thing before you brought it up, but if it isn't, why is this such an unknown invention?

Mayby because it is pre internet and the aiming for people to help them learn and meditatie. That it can play music is just a gimmick for them.

Mayby we can invite the european department of Neurophone to the next head-fi meeting?

Quote:

Originally Posted by digitalmind /img/forum/go_quote.gif For just a bit more than €300, I'm not sure if DIY is the reasonable route. Sure, it's a fun project, but if this unit does what you want...

not quite, i am also trying to find out if it can carry to complete audiospectrum (neurohone spec's are unknown and the echofone is 400 hz- 100khz, did i already mention i like bass...) so you can listen to music without anybody knowing. Keeping your ears clear. And i really like stereo while the neurophone is mono. I've understood that if you get more used to the neurophone principle, you can put the transducers anywhere on your body. So hidding the transducers in your belt would be very cool idea.

 

[Jelle Schrijver]

bump

 

[Kel Ghu]

I think I am gonna try it. There is a 30-day return policy... It will replace my predator

 

[Kel Ghu]

I am actually very interested in this thing. I am going to explain why...

I am an adept of Tai Chi Chuan (Tai Ji Quan), a chinese martial art (you know Tai Chi Master movies and stuff I guess). And the biggest part of that art is meditation. And like all other meditation system, you seek to be connected to the universe and be one with it. And masters in meditation (whether it is buddhist, Daoist, Zen, Yogi, etc...), often describe part of that by being feeling rooted (grounded in neurophone FAQ) and being more present with a clearer mind (heightened awareness). According to Neurophone FAQ, many people using it are feeling the same way... That is incredible! It could save the world! I mean, it is believe that all great guides felt it, like Siddharta, Lao Tseu or Jesus Christ. They all described that connection to the universe differently. Siddharta called it Nirvana, it is Lao Tseu's Vacuity and Jesus' God, which describe the same thing with different approach.

Meditation is very hard and not many people can reach even the lowest level. And it sounds that the neurophone can help us gaining that "6th" sense without doing anything... Even if they don't claim it, that's what they "advertise"... I know I sound crazy. But for you guys out there who are interested in meditation, check this out... I don't know what it is worth, but it sounds miraculous.

 

[Jelle Schrijver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kel Ghu /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think I am gonna try it. There is a 30-day return policy... It will replace my predator

Go for it, and please keep us posted about the experiences of the neurophone as a way of listening music.

Keep in mind you have to get used to the new sensory input...

And about meditation, yes it's hard...
But also look into binaural beats with imbedded alpha/theta waves. There was a CD out there that was advertised as the quickguide to mediation. But it was just BB with the mentioned above brainwaves. Don't have the link anymore.

Here are some links that could get you started:
wiki
Binaural Beat Brain Wave Experimenter's Lab
browser based BB generator

And Kel Ghu, email me if you want some more tips. I have still some at hand, but not all are suitable for sharing it here out in the open.

 

[Kel Ghu]

I am not sure the binaural beats will work with the neurophone, as it is monoral. We will see. I can listen to it through headphones though while using the neurophone. Have you tried the binaural beats?
This is going to be a scary experience... I am a bit worried...

 

[Jelle Schrijver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kel Ghu /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am not sure the binaural beats will work with the neurophone, as it is monoral. We will see. I can listen to it through headphones though while using the neurophone.

Correct, one of the this is dislike about the neurophone. I would be very handy/cool if the perceived sound is equal/better then listening with IEM. That way I could listen to music and keep my ears for listening to my surroundings.

And Binaural Beats don't work with neurophone technology, because the trick of BB is to play to slightly different tones to each ear so the brain calculates the difference between them. That's way BB only works with headphones and not with speakers. Also if your amp/player has some kind of 3d/crossfeed kinda stuff, it should be turned off!!

The whole idea behind BB is that your brain receives a tone in the 4-12 hz region, which is not possible by normal hearing. Seen the technology of neurophone, i would think that it would be possible to play the 4-12hz tones themselves through the neurophone, because the neurophone bypasses the normal hearing process.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kel Ghu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Have you tried the binaural beats?

Yes, i use PowerNap regularly, a BB cd (apple lossless on iPod) with embedded sleepbrainwaves the simulates the 3 hours sleep cycle in 20 min.
And tried the various BB samples of the theta/alpha waves. Effects are very strange to experience and are not the same for all people. Also, the more you use a certain type of BB sample, the faster and easier your brain adapts to it. Kinda like learning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kel Ghu /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is going to be a scary experience... I am a bit worried...

You should not be worried more then about the marketing boys that used the famous 1 shot of coca cola between the other frames of the movie. Your brain is highly influential, but in the end, your the master of your own brain and have a free will. So it is all about how free you are letting yourself to be influenced by outside stimuli. So in my view, it is not scarier then all that advertising that is going on around you.

 

[Jelle Schrijver]

Found that BB meditation CD:

brain music power

 

[buddha01]

Hi,

I just started to get re-interested in the nurophone once again after hearing about it many years ago.

My interest in the nurophone is as follows.

1-Making a cheaper but as capable version. I have read that the commerical nurophone is actually sealed in carbon to limit its back engineering, I believe a standard analoge version should be fairly easy for a genus to make but to make it digital is harder?

2-I have also completed many Hemi-sync courses and would be interested in how they may assist meditation.

3-I would be interested in how to make a wireless transmitting verion of the nurophone so as to project audio and music as a consenting persons skull.

4-I have read that images can be placed onto a uhf carrer with the nurophone, I am a computer gamer and would like to know if this is one step closer to VR computer gaming? think matrix

Oh and lastly I am trying to learn another language and find it very interesting that it may assist with long term memory access, help with studying etc.


I think the nurophone in the right hands could be a kind of key to much more.

Does any one have any thoughts about my thoughts.

bud

 

[Jelle Schrijver]

Hi Bud,

Quote:

Originally Posted by buddha01 /img/forum/go_quote.gif 1-Making a cheaper but as capable version. I have read that the commerical nurophone is actually sealed in carbon to limit its back engineering, I believe a standard analoge version should be fairly easy for a genus to make but to make it digital is harder?

Cheaper is always better (i am dutch

) but the current neurophone feels somewhat overpriced and is missing some things for my needs. As you may have read some posts ago i am trying to find people to build one ourselves.
I was busy with digitalmind, but he seems to be to busy. What i need is a schematic of a amplitude modulation (AM) amp where i can adjust the carrier freq between 30khz and 50 khz. That should be simple enough, but have not found a schematic on the internet....

Quote:

Originally Posted by buddha01 /img/forum/go_quote.gif 2-I have also completed many Hemi-sync courses and would be interested in how they may assist meditation.

I quess your talking about this. The quick look tells me it is about Binaural Beats (BB), but that should not work while listening to speakers, because the tones need to be isolated from each other. BB should not work with the standard neurophone, because it's mono. But my goal is to build a stereo system. Then it could work, but it depands about the amount of crosstalk between the 2 channels. BUT, the whole idea is about using infrasub (1-40 hz) frequencies. BB is a way to get infrasub frequents into the brain. This is because our ears are not capable for hearing infrasub freq. What an interesting experiment should be is to get a tone generator and use a neurophone to play the infrasub frequencies by itself. Because the neurophone bypasses the normal hearing mechanism, it should be possible to "hear" those infrasub freq and thus it do its work in synching the brainwaves. Side step: our visual system is however capable to (subconscious) register the infrasub frequencies. So a idea of mine was that watching television creates a 25hz wave in your brain. That is in the beta waves range, associated with Active, busy or anxious thinking and active concentration, arousal, cognition and this could explain the hurried feeling most of us western citizens are experiencing.

edit: Also i am curious about your experiences with the hemi-sync material. PM or email me if you want, because i am not sure this is the right tread to share it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by buddha01 /img/forum/go_quote.gif 3-I would be interested in how to make a wireless transmitting verion of the nurophone so as to project audio and music as a consenting persons skull.

Not shure what you are saying here. Is it to send music as a raygun to someone's head? It is already done by Flanagan itself, but it was not powerful enough to actually hear it. It was picked up subconscious. So i am not sure how much power would be needed (and thus EMC radition) to actually hear it concisely. The way Flanagan did it is very simple, we only should need a bigger amp. I am however not gone tell here how it is done, because it also could be misused. The reason why the American government confiscated the invention in it's early years. Also, from what i've read, you get more sensitive to the new audio input the longer you use it. And so, need less power to hear it. About wireless, my dream is to create a small wireless bodypack in conjunction with a belt with buildin transducers. By wearing the belt underneath your clothing you could, as a musician, listen to the monitorsignal and still keep your ears free for (on stage) conversation and ambience sounds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by buddha01 /img/forum/go_quote.gif 4-I have read that images can be placed onto a uhf carrer with the nurophone, I am a computer gamer and would like to know if this is one step closer to VR computer gaming? think matrix

the carrier wave of the neurophone is way lower than the UHF band. And your tapping into your hearing nerve, not your visual nerve. So in this application i do not think sending images to brain would be possible

But, it is not as strange as it at first sight seems. Just have to figure out:
1) carrier frequency of your visual nerve.
2) figure out how the eye converts a picture to the electrical signal passed to the visual nerve.

 

[buddha01]

Hello again.

I often find myself watching and listening to two different video and audio sources at the same time.

I wounder what it would be like to have two audio sources playing (spoken tounge) one through the nurophone one through standard sterio headphones...

Think of the film, the man who fell to earth.

Also... I am trying to learn a language at the moment, I am native english although you would not tell with my grammer.

How about playing spanish through the neurophone with the like for like english words at the same time, time matched, through standard speakers,

through in a small hemi sync for studying, the phase the forgin words louder, this might be a good way to "fit the feel, for new words".

Also would be interested in how this would work with two different audio sources, Ok im not a women but I have a data hungry mind most of the time, of that generation + coffee etc..


comments..

bud