Neurophone
Mar 24, 2008 at 1:25 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 57

Jelle Schrijver

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Hi All,

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Neurophone is a different kind of music listening experience. Invented in the 60's it is not a very new technology. It is mostly avertised as a learning devic or meditation apperatus. But i've once read a post somewhere of it's use as a music listening device. Used in conjunction with a normal headphone it reported a very impressive result with a lot more detail to the music.

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It works like a AM radio with a carrier wave of +/- 40 khz. This magic frequencie makes the coupling between all the nerves of the cochlea and the single nerve to your brain resonate. The music signal imbedded in the 40 khz wave excites the nerve and you preceive music. The interesting parts is that the preceived sound is bypassed the hole ear system and thus induvidual notes can be detected. (The ear normaly collectes all the notes to a single audiovibration, creating harmonics on the way). Once you get used to the system, the placing of the transducers is not that critical. As long as it touches some bare skin. Also, the side effect is that the brain gets a lot more signal to compute and generates a lot of special hormones to make the brain cope with the increased activity. These hormones are the same hormones that make you feel happy and content. So music listening gets even more addictive.
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The technology is kinda simple, but the price is pretty steep. So i am looking for people (in the benelux region ?) with a electronics background to collaborate with to build a DIY neurophone.

There are more company's out there with this same technology, but the can not call it a neurophone and give it other names for it (and a even more heafty price tag). In the past i've had other links, but kinda lost them. So links too this kind of technology are also welcome.

Greetz
Jelle
 
Mar 25, 2008 at 3:30 PM Post #4 of 57
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jelle Schrijver /img/forum/go_quote.gif
So i am looking for people (in the benelux region ?) with a electronics background to collaborate with to build a DIY neurophone.


Thats what it has to do with DIY.
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It's kind of a neat concept...wonder how will it works from person to person. And anything that you get a natural high from is a winner in my book! haha
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Mar 25, 2008 at 5:28 PM Post #5 of 57
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jelle Schrijver /img/forum/go_quote.gif
So i am looking for people (in the benelux region ?) with a electronics background to collaborate with to build a DIY neurophone.


Sorry mate, I missed that part. Mistook it for spam. Thanks Bjornboy81 for pointing it out.
 
Mar 25, 2008 at 10:20 PM Post #6 of 57
UUh, sorry for the misunderstanding.

I am looking for people with more electronical background that can help building a neurophone. RF electronics is just out of my lague. So it is kinda diy self as in who's want to help figure this one out.
 
Mar 25, 2008 at 10:22 PM Post #7 of 57
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bjornboy81 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Thats what it has to do with DIY.
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It's kind of a neat concept...wonder how will it works from person to person. And anything that you get a natural high from is a winner in my book! haha
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Person 2 person? like how to collaborate? Or using a neurophone with more than one person?
 
Mar 25, 2008 at 10:57 PM Post #8 of 57
No, he's wondering how it affects people. So if everyone experiences it the same way, or if everyone has their own soundsignature.
in example, to person A it feels like a two kilowatt subwoofer in their head, to person B it feels like no subwoofer at all.
DIYing this is a little risky, I think. Something went wrong when connecting this to that, and you end up with no memory at all
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Mar 26, 2008 at 12:02 AM Post #9 of 57
from what i've read so far, the experience is the same to most people. It sounds more spooky than it's is. But it can not harm you and it does not effect the brain direct, only like tricking the brain in hearing through you're ears. I also read that the more u use it, the less signal you need to hear it. First timers put it so hard that the skin's beginning to vibrate so loud, it becomes audible. And because of the Amplutide Modulation. I suspect it does not produce real low frequencies. Kinda like the AM radio versus the FM radio.

The technology however was keept secret by the US goverment because you can also use it in a special way. It seems that when you radiate the signal into a room, you will not here it consious, but DO hear it subconsious. So like the 1 frame coca cola shot in the movie, it can infleunce people.
 
Mar 26, 2008 at 6:52 AM Post #10 of 57
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jelle Schrijver /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The technology however was keept secret by the US goverment because you can also use it in a special way. It seems that when you radiate the signal into a room, you will not here it consious, but DO hear it subconsious. So like the 1 frame coca cola shot in the movie, it can infleunce people.


Oh, now I'm getting interested!
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You talked to me for a short period after the meet at Hans' place. The transducers of the system; do they vibrate themselves or are they simple antennas? A 40kHz AM transmitter is simple enough to build. If they vibrate themselves, it seems like a modification of this would get the same results. At the least, it'll get you a low-fi version of it. Those things can be picked up in stores for about €7,50 to €10. Might be worth getting one to see if you can get the same results outside of the mouth.

Being able to identify two different seperate tones rather than a mixup of the two opens up a lot of possibilities, not just for music. Seems like a very cool project to play with! Can you pull the Neurophone patents?

EDIT:
Here's some interesting reading:
Frequency transpositional hearing ... - Google Patents
Nervous system excitation device - Google Patents
Method and system for simplifying ... - Google Patents

How much does a Neurophone cost? Considering the time needed to build/design such a thing, buying one may well prove to be the much cheaper route.

Maybe it's just me who hadn't heard of this thing before you brought it up, but if it isn't, why is this such an unknown invention?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonthouse /img/forum/go_quote.gif
DIYing this is a little risky, I think. Something went wrong when connecting this to that, and you end up with no memory at all
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Not at all -- around 40kHz is a very harmless frequency. If you want to worry about those sort of things, you'd do much better by turning off your wireless router... That's less than a high-end headphone!

edit:

For just a bit more than €300, I'm not sure if DIY is the reasonable route. Sure, it's a fun project, but if this unit does what you want...
 
Mar 26, 2008 at 10:33 AM Post #11 of 57
1. Wonder if it works like a cochlear implant for deaf people. Cochlear implants receive signals from a external transmitter and stimulates the auditory nerves directly. The deaf person does not hear true sound but a close interpretation.
2. If this Neurophone technology really works then why is it not used for the hearing impaired?
 
Mar 26, 2008 at 12:17 PM Post #12 of 57
If it's transmitting a ~40 kHz signal and it becomes audible, wouldn't that imply that humans can hear or detect signals that high? The commonly-accepted frequency range of human hearing (e.g. audibility) is 20 Hz-20 kHz. Just curious.
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Mar 26, 2008 at 12:36 PM Post #13 of 57
Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitesymphony /img/forum/go_quote.gif
If it's transmitting a ~40 kHz signal and it becomes audible, wouldn't that imply that humans can hear or detect signals that high? The commonly-accepted frequency range of human hearing (e.g. audibility) is 20 Hz-20 kHz. Just curious.
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It would imply that sounds at that frequency are modulated back to the 'normal' frequencies that we can hear while bypassing the ear (either in our brains or somewhere else along the route). So, in a way, we can detect signals above ~20kHz -- just not through use of our eardrums.

Really interesting would be to find out if we can hear a larger frequency range with this method.... though I suspect not (since there's no information about this at all on the Neurophone site). It would enable an entire new array of instruments and music.


sound therapy, accelerated learning, hearing loss and attention deficit relief.

A more 'hifi' version compared to the Neurophone?
 
Mar 26, 2008 at 1:02 PM Post #14 of 57
The Neurophone information says that the saccule in the ear is capable of sensing ultrasonic frequencies. As far as I've seen, there hasn't been any research that has conclusively demonstrated the detectability of ultrasonic frequencies, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they have no effect, subliminal or otherwise.

Even if the Neurophone turns out to be pure marketing nonsense, this is a subject that has always interested me.
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