You seem to be confused between step response and group delay.
May I suggest you go back to study what a single driver phase response shift introduce as group delay ( as you pointed, transducer)
Neumann NDH 30
- Thread starter rudbeard
- Start date
May I suggest you go back to study what a single driver phase response shift introduce as group delay ( as you pointed, transducer)
@Rob80b and @martel80
I really don't know how to react to your river of impressions that have been flooding the last 15-20 pages. I did write a very different response to express my wandering for all these impossible comments but decided not to post it. May be I should have, given how inexplicably uncorrelated to the NDH 30 (my pair of NDH 30) your impressions are.
But something more serious is happening. To my great sadness I see now that when you use "everyone hears differently" or "it's a matter of taste" you don't actually mean it.
It's ok not to like the sound of a headphone but it is a different thing not wanting to like it, moreover, not wanting anyone to like it! You made the latter more than clear through exhaustive repetition of every possible or impossible "finding" about its sound - like speaking for a bad example of a 50 dollar headphone. I am sorry to remind you once again that it does sound to the majority of people reporting here like what a fine example of a $1500 headphone should be. Almost faultless by absolute standards. It is gifted with naturalness, balance, resolution, speed, timbre, communication at a very high degree. HD-650 pales from the first minute in comparison in terms of all these - and I am very fond of the HD 650. I laughed a lot reading that the NDH 30 is just an attempt to advance from the HD 650! (or something like that).
An unsuccessful combination (or two) of headphone + ears does not mean that a headphone is unsuccessful. It doesn't work for some pairs of ears and that's all. When many (of course many) other serious members/testers with modest/controled way of writing (ha, not me) have find very rare virtues and mature sound quality on it, usually associated only with more expensive gear, what is the point for so many derogatory comments about a sound quality that you don't perceive? Which other headphone has been compared by many (me included) with the best dynamics offered today and survived so easily? How can I deny the above mentioned set of qualities when they appear and surprise me (or Mike) on every recording?
Food for thought...
And please, no more old/reused/resurrected/refurbished/recycled driver, or collated parts from the old drower...This is not serious and underlines constantly that you'd hate to like it.
I really don't know how to react to your river of impressions that have been flooding the last 15-20 pages. I did write a very different response to express my wandering for all these impossible comments but decided not to post it. May be I should have, given how inexplicably uncorrelated to the NDH 30 (my pair of NDH 30) your impressions are.
But something more serious is happening. To my great sadness I see now that when you use "everyone hears differently" or "it's a matter of taste" you don't actually mean it.
It's ok not to like the sound of a headphone but it is a different thing not wanting to like it, moreover, not wanting anyone to like it! You made the latter more than clear through exhaustive repetition of every possible or impossible "finding" about its sound - like speaking for a bad example of a 50 dollar headphone. I am sorry to remind you once again that it does sound to the majority of people reporting here like what a fine example of a $1500 headphone should be. Almost faultless by absolute standards. It is gifted with naturalness, balance, resolution, speed, timbre, communication at a very high degree. HD-650 pales from the first minute in comparison in terms of all these - and I am very fond of the HD 650. I laughed a lot reading that the NDH 30 is just an attempt to advance from the HD 650! (or something like that).
An unsuccessful combination (or two) of headphone + ears does not mean that a headphone is unsuccessful. It doesn't work for some pairs of ears and that's all. When many (of course many) other serious members/testers with modest/controled way of writing (ha, not me) have find very rare virtues and mature sound quality on it, usually associated only with more expensive gear, what is the point for so many derogatory comments about a sound quality that you don't perceive? Which other headphone has been compared by many (me included) with the best dynamics offered today and survived so easily? How can I deny the above mentioned set of qualities when they appear and surprise me (or Mike) on every recording?
Food for thought...
And please, no more old/reused/resurrected/refurbished/recycled driver, or collated parts from the old drower...This is not serious and underlines constantly that you'd hate to like it.
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jonathan c
Headphoneus Supremus
Another sneak listen of NDH-30 / HPA V200 … Stable Mable by Dexter Gordon (label: Steeplechase) … 
… the ‘club feel’ on this quartet studio album really comes out … the emotion wrought from PRaT is a veritable strength of NDH-30 !! The acoustics are so palpably rendered !! …
… the ‘club feel’ on this quartet studio album really comes out … the emotion wrought from PRaT is a veritable strength of NDH-30 !! The acoustics are so palpably rendered !! …I'm wondering where you took the idea that ''I don't want to like it and moreover not wanting anyone to like it'' when I clearly said I would keep them to make my rough mix and will probably leave my VSX here. I'm also wondering where I talked about a set of 50$ headphones.
Is it possible that you are confusing the perception and measurement I shared as a derogatory claim?
I'm ok for you to think I hate them but it's important to make the difference between what you think and what is actually being said as well.
As much as I believe they are ( as I mentioned before ) of the ' essantial' category as far as critical listening when a mixing situation is involved, I could not emphasize more the idea that they are not fit for mastering as claimed by the company because I believe there is better offering available at the same price point. Not holding any grudge against Neumann really, everyone is exaggerating nowadays.
I appreciate people being fans of products, really. It show emotions through material and products for a company that might not know you exist.
Where I feel less comfortable is when you make claims about your perception of the opinion of others and paint them as haters. That's borderline slandering people to preserve your personal image of a product. Come on now...
The idea of popularity that you underline is of little to no impact though, and I need to remember you that Airpods pro hold the biggest earphone/headphone market share as we speak. I'm sure you do understand that we don't need to enter into a debate about their accuracy in a critical listening situation ( which I was talking about all along).
I said it over and over, in a pure enjoyment point of view, none of the behaviours of those cans matter as it is really a matter of taste and I nor anyone else is placed to tell anyone if those headphones will be the time of their life or not.
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chesebert
18 Years An Extra-Hardcore Head-Fi'er
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No flat 2D linear left to right soundstage, right?
Need a couple of days to settle down if you just got the pair.
Need a couple of days to settle down if you just got the pair.
Definitely and I stand by it yes.
But tell me Cheesie, you seem like a knowledgeable person in audio device.
What do you know about a set of NS10's and what are they use for ? What is particular about their behaviour and why do mixing engineer still use them nowadays ?
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Rob80b
Headphoneus Supremus
Listen, I'm sorry you feel that way ....
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erics75
Headphoneus Supremus
This thread is getting derailed. Those who like it like it, those who don’t don’t. Who cares? Not being catty, just being honest. We all have opinions and we don’t have to agree. Can’t we just accept differing opinions and move on? This reminds me of the old Sennheiser AKG and Beyer threads where users would argue incessantly about whatever their chosen brand was and how they were right and the other wrong. It’s just audio equipment, not a family member! Ok I’m heading back to the ZMF thread to bash some dissenting heads…. 
jonathan c
Headphoneus Supremus
… It’s time for a new site: Head-Fry.org … 
jonathan c
Headphoneus Supremus
Impressed and moved by NDH-30, which has incredible balance, resolution, spatiality! A ‘studio’ headphone that sports a lab coat but can don a tuxedo with aplomb! What (in hell) do I mean? To my ears, NDH-30 can be analytic and holistic … delve into yet retain the gestalt of music …
… a rollicking time is being had …
Mike F
Headphoneus Supremus
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I know that headstef quoted you in his post, but I think he was mainly talking about the other person. IMO you've been generally fair, open and honest with your impressions of the NDH 30, not deliberately negative and critical about (even before purchasing) them specifically, and toward Neumann in general.
Mike F
Headphoneus Supremus
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Have to say, in that picture the black looks great!NDH-30 (black!) is breaking in with Violectric HPA V200 …… a few sneak listens … amazingly balanced, clear, sculpted, spacious … augurs well! …
…
FullBright1
Headphoneus Supremus
Neumann NDH 30 Open-back
9-26-2023
I have a few observations, regarding this gear....that i'd like to share with you.
The Box is decent.
The Pads are comfy, but, not in the same league with something like the HEKV2's comfort.
Headband is average + , and the headphones are quite light and are aesthetically pleasing, = the Black Version.
The Cable is decent, a touch microphonic, and it comes out of the Right cup, and that is an odd placement.
Ok, so that is all i can criticize regarding the : Neumann NDH 30 Open-back
=====================================================================================
So what about its sound. ?
Im glad you asked.
My thought is that, if Sennheiser created an HD 680 Studio Monitor set of headphones...., then the Neumann NDH 30 Open-back is sort of like that...
Imagine if you will, a HD600, newly created with a very linear FR, ...( vs its 30 yr old midrange focused- centered sound signature.) And add in very good soundstage, good bass, and up the overall resolution by 10%
= Neumann NDH 30 Open-back, has arrived.
This gear is probably one of the most neutral and resolving headphones you can buy for less then $1000 USD...., that also has very good low end.
It has a very unique "airy" vocal performance, that is especially rewarding regarding Female vocals.
And, not being a Planar, it does not sound like a planar, at all. So, if you only love the Planar sound, then the Neumann NDH 30 Open-back, is not that sound.
In fact, it sounds like a previous Neumann, but with better soundstage, most of all.
This gear, sonically speaking..... produces realism meets neutrality, and that includes a nice bottom end.
Im powering mine with the Hifiman R2R Serenade, and this seems to be a good match.
Its possible that because the Serenade Dac/Amp is so powerful, and is also a "Class A" headphone amp..... its giving the Neumann's a touch more bite and sparkle, vs, some "lesser" amp/dac combos.
-
9-26-2023
I have a few observations, regarding this gear....that i'd like to share with you.
The Box is decent.
The Pads are comfy, but, not in the same league with something like the HEKV2's comfort.
Headband is average + , and the headphones are quite light and are aesthetically pleasing, = the Black Version.
The Cable is decent, a touch microphonic, and it comes out of the Right cup, and that is an odd placement.
Ok, so that is all i can criticize regarding the : Neumann NDH 30 Open-back
=====================================================================================
So what about its sound. ?
Im glad you asked.
My thought is that, if Sennheiser created an HD 680 Studio Monitor set of headphones...., then the Neumann NDH 30 Open-back is sort of like that...
Imagine if you will, a HD600, newly created with a very linear FR, ...( vs its 30 yr old midrange focused- centered sound signature.) And add in very good soundstage, good bass, and up the overall resolution by 10%
= Neumann NDH 30 Open-back, has arrived.
This gear is probably one of the most neutral and resolving headphones you can buy for less then $1000 USD...., that also has very good low end.
It has a very unique "airy" vocal performance, that is especially rewarding regarding Female vocals.
And, not being a Planar, it does not sound like a planar, at all. So, if you only love the Planar sound, then the Neumann NDH 30 Open-back, is not that sound.
In fact, it sounds like a previous Neumann, but with better soundstage, most of all.
This gear, sonically speaking..... produces realism meets neutrality, and that includes a nice bottom end.
Im powering mine with the Hifiman R2R Serenade, and this seems to be a good match.
Its possible that because the Serenade Dac/Amp is so powerful, and is also a "Class A" headphone amp..... its giving the Neumann's a touch more bite and sparkle, vs, some "lesser" amp/dac combos.
-
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Rob80b
Headphoneus Supremus
Mike, you guys are way too polite, headstef was addressing me.
From the start I was trying to stress that the NDH20 and also the NDH30 are not, design wise, attributable to Neumann. None of the parts were at anytime designed to function as a whole toward creating the Neumann headphones, they were pulled together and function more or less as intended. If we look at Focal, Sennheiser, AKG all of the hesdphones are designed from the ground up so the the baffle, cups and driver are directed to serve a unifying goal.
The basis for the Neuman, the HD630VB works very well , from the ear cups, baffle, headband and most importantly the drivers were designed to work together, this is not the case with the Neumann headphones, save the NDH20 but the pads soften the dynamics. And yes I've expressed my doubts as to what the overall sound output would be, and was finally confirmed, not too my wishes, but by keeping the overall sound signature in safe territory the sound is flat, overly pleasant and IMHO lacks dynamics, pedestrian as I mentioned, these attributes may work fine as monitor but as a competitive phone for getting the most, emotionally out of a musical performance, they do not, "for me".
I believe these findings have been expressed elsewhere, just saw one such review......but as it may be partially negative will be dismissed. lol
https://www.headphonesty.com/2023/04/review-neumann-ndh-30/
"Bottom Line
They are, however, a pair of decently proficient modern headphones - with one serious flaw. What all but ruins the NDH 30 for me are the lack of impact and bite. The listening experience is quite informative - you can tell the music is happening, but it isn’t happening to you. They may work for sound professionals. I can imagine many being wowed by the detail and lack of ear fatigue. I recommend that everyone audition the Neumann NDH 30 before buying."
This exactly what I was expressing.
Sorry never, marketing speak, yes,
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