[Maxpain]

I'm not even sure why Ifi decided to make those unless they are made specifically with one of their ifi amplifiers but still, I don't think that's possible. There are 3.5mm BAL out there like that of the Shanling M0 Pro which I have a 3.5mm BAL to 4.4mm BAL adapter.

From what I understand I am not going to touch that....I thought that it was a common thing but I am not going to experiment endangering my equipment.

Does Neumann has their own 4.4 cable? I hope it's not crazy expensive....last time I was out to buy a balanced cable for my 650's ended up buying the 660s instead...they were only 150 euros more and included the damn cable

 

[Mike F]

https://ifi-audio.com/products/headphone-adapter-3-5mm-to-4-4mm/


This is the adapter I am talking about...

Perhaps you missed this bit?

This adapter does not convert a single-ended connector into a balanced one – the connection remains single-ended.

Or perhaps you didn’t expect it to turn it into a balanced connection? It’s always pays to read the description.!

 

[MayorSimpleton]

Mmmmm interesting. They say how they don’t do it but don’t say what jiggery pokery they are using that does do it. Someone cleverer than me may well be able to explain. Have to say though that this (adapter they are peddling) feels like a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist, meanwhile adding more componentry into your signal path.

Please note: negative balanced signals are not connected to ground in the adapter, enabling a 3.5mm single-ended headphone connector to be converted for use with a balanced 4.4mm output without risk of damage to the amplifier. This adapter does not convert a single-ended connector into a balanced one – the connection remains single-ended.

Personally, (as someone who reterminated his NDH30 stock cable to 4.4mm balanced, so I speak from experience), I definitely wouldn’t bother trying to force your demo to run from a balanced output - it really is unnecessary, and won’t tell you anything other than (maybe) the headphones are louder for a given position on the volume dial.

 

[ThEvil0nE]

From what I understand I am not going to touch that....I thought that it was a common thing but I am not going to experiment endangering my equipment.

Does Neumann has their own 4.4 cable? I hope it's not crazy expensive....last time I was out to buy a balanced cable for my 650's ended up buying the 660s instead...they were only 150 euros more and included the damn cable

Not sure about Neumman's pricing on their BAL cable for the NDH but be prepared to pay in the $100

 

[Maxpain]

Perhaps you missed this bit?

This adapter does not convert a single-ended connector into a balanced one – the connection remains single-ended.

Or perhaps you didn’t expect it to turn it into a balanced connection? It’s always pays to read the description.!

No I know...and I didn't expect it to convert the signal...just use the 4.4 output of the amp with the stock cable of the headphones so I don't need to buy a separate one.

I am not going to use it now that everyone said its going to be pointless

 

[Vitaliy Belz]

I hope it's not crazy expensive....last time I was out to buy a balanced cable for my 650's ended up buying the 660s instead...they were only 150 euros more and included the damn cable

If you knew how to solder, this adapter would cost you about 5€ or 5$ or even less.

 

[Maxpain]

Mmmmm interesting. They say how they don’t do it but don’t say what jiggery pokery they are using that does do it. Someone cleverer than me may well be able to explain. Have to say though that this (adapter they are peddling) feels like a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist, meanwhile adding more componentry into your signal path.



Personally, (as someone who reterminated his NDH30 stock cable to 4.4mm balanced, so I speak from experience), I definitely wouldn’t bother trying to force your demo to run from a balanced output - it really is unnecessary, and won’t tell you anything other than (maybe) the headphones are louder for a given position on the volume dial.

In the end I am going to use the SE output or buy the cable.

With my current headphones 650 sounds way better with the balanced connection which I was expected but 660s did to which I did not expect much...

 

[Maxpain]

Not sure about Neumman's pricing on their BAL cable for the NDH but be prepared to pay in the $100

If its around 100 euros its reasonable!

 

[Maxpain]

If you knew how to solder, this adapter would cost you about 5€ or 5$ or even less.

That would be a good thing...unfortunately I don't

Maybe its a good thing I don't cause I am not very good with constructions of any kind and would end up damaging the cable

 

[MayorSimpleton]

In the end I am going to use the SE output or buy the cable.

With my current headphones 650 sounds way better with the balanced connection which I was expected but 660s did to which I did not expect much...

Thats easy, the HD650 are 300Ohm (meaning harder to drive, hence benefit the extra power balanced will give) whilst the 660s are 150Ohm (which still more than the NDH30 @ 120Ohms), and easier to drive.

It’s worth while reading up on why balanced topology exists. It’s got nothing to do with sound quality or power output.

 

[Maxpain]

Thats easy, the HD650 are 300Ohm (meaning harder to drive, hence benefit the extra power balanced will give) whilst the 660s are 150Ohm (which still more than the NDH30 @ 120Ohms), and easier to drive.

It’s worth while reading up on why balanced topology exists. It’s got nothing to do with sound quality or power output.

They are easier to drive and I would thought that they would just sound louder with the 4.4 cable...but they sound also more clear and with wider soundstage. I have switched back and forth the cables many times trying to see if its just a placebo effect and I think it is not.

I know that balanced doesn't have to do much with sound quality except it does help with some noise problems sometimes.

What I am thinking is that for such a budget product like the zen can signature around 300 euros....the manufacturer could have designed the product to sounds best with its selling point 4.4 output....

but that thought could also be nonsense. Either way its not going to keep me from getting the headphones of course.

 

[ThEvil0nE]

They are easier to drive and I would thought that they would just sound louder with the 4.4 cable...but they sound also more clear and with wider soundstage. I have switched back and forth the cables many times trying to see if its just a placebo effect and I think it is not.

I know that balanced doesn't have to do much with sound quality except it does help with some noise problems sometimes.

What I am thinking is that for such a budget product like the zen can signature around 300 euros....the manufacturer could have designed the product to sounds best with its selling point 4.4 output....

but that thought could also be nonsense. Either way its not going to keep me from getting the headphones of course.

You have to volume match to compare and chances are they will be in the same ballpark.

 

[MayorSimpleton]

....the manufacturer could have designed the product to sounds best with its selling point 4.4 output...

To be fair that wouldn’t surprise me. I really want to like ifi as a company (as a Brit myself - British company) but honestly when I read through some of their product marketing speil sometimes it feels more like reading a Harry Potter spell book! That adapter thing you posted above is another bit of hockus pockus too imo

Edit - I should say I am absolutely no expert, I know some of their products are very highly rated by folk much more knowledgeable than me.

 

[Maxpain]

To be fair that wouldn’t surprise me. I really want to like ifi as a company (as a Brit myself - British company) but honestly when I read through some of their product marketing speil sometimes it feels more like reading a Harry Potter spell book! That adapter thing you posted above is another bit of hockus pockus too imo

I haven't tried much amps....nor very expensive ones...but from those I have tested ifi has the best sound..

I admit that their marketing is not the best it could be....

but they have budget solutions for lots of different devices and some of them are quite good as people seem ti like them

 

[Joaquin Dinero]

https://ifi-audio.com/products/headphone-adapter-3-5mm-to-4-4mm/


This is the adapter I am talking about...

It seems like what this does is "downgrade" your balanced amp signal to SE so it works with a SE headphone. Whatever advantage the balanced output offered would be lost in that case.