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Neumann NDH 30
- Thread starter rudbeard
- Start date
Rob80b
Headphoneus Supremus
Lol..don't get too excited I'm just dealing with my OCD.I like lively and not indifferent people!
Where my current phones on hand, the HD800S, AKG k872, Sen HD660S and the Focal Elegia appear to do what is intended from the manufacturer... and I'm ok with their different sound signatures... I cannot help but feel the Sennhieser HD630 was oddly off and not reaching their potential. The driver obviously is not the problem as the base is abundant, well defined and goes deep, treble is rather extended, sibilance free and without distortion so I felt it was a matter of balancing the two rather accomplished extremes and encouraging the midrange, Neumann may have felt the same. Mods are still a work in progress, pad swap are yet to be done and it will be interesting how they'll compare to the NDH 30 tonally..and the VB on the 630 is IMHO very well implemented and from reading some reviews on the NDH-20 maybe should have been included. : )
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Sounds intriguing, given that I could buy a new HD630 VB for $100 tomorrow at a nearby store. I saw them a few days ago when you started this intrigueMy shop's closed today and so had another chance to audition the Neumann. Interesting visit as I also brought along the newly modified HD630.
Long & McQuade's demo station is not the greatest but I did bring along my Filo X3 to plug in and they also added the NDH20 since my last visit.
Again conclusions are not conclusive, and not to intentionally pat myself on the back as I wasn't expecting too much, but with the HD630 simultaneously plugged in they sounded fine in comparison..... no huge differences between the Neumanns besides being open and closed..in direct with theHD630 highs may have been slightly tamer on the Neumann...midrange similar... base I give to the Senns. Obviously levels were not perfectly matched and a plethora of differences, pads, damping, efficiency etc but what was unexpected I actually preferred the 630 to the the 20. (I know..fighten words..lol) And I came away not totally convinced Neumann use a different drive. oh oh.
Now here's the crazy part...someone came in to try out the 30s while I was listening to Dave Holland's "Prime Directive" album on the NDH20s and then he grabbed my HD630s from the top on the display. After a bit I then asked if he'd like to swap out for the 20s...this went back and forth a few times.and also with the 30s .... he asked what they were and if they sell them here. I said no and that they're the Sennheiser HD630 VB and discontinued and had some pretty negative feedback ... still available on line..and also had to mention that mine were slightly modded. He said found the Senns clearer and better defined with very good base...Ihe took photos of my Senns and thene left to go find a pair of 630s. dah.
So..totally conflicted....don't think I'll be jumping on the NDH30 anytime soon....and out of curiosity will try to get in some Neumann NDH20 pads in as they can make or break the overall signature of a headphone.....hhhhmmm.
Stat tuned as the saga continues.
I can wake up tomorrow and not regret this money for the sake of interest and my own comparison...
What comprised this demo station? If relatively basic electronics or FiiO X3 are used it is pointless to compare headphones for anything more than tonality and comfort. No conclusions can be made for high class sound virtues. My NDH 30 and every other good headphone become "just a nice headphone" with my FiiO KA3 dongle (€100) or basic dacs/amps. They can't shine.
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Rob80b
Headphoneus Supremus
You could … but I believe you mentioned you got the NDH30 for free.Sounds intriguing, given that I could buy a new HD630 VB for $100 tomorrow at a nearby store. I saw them a few days ago when you started this intrigue
I can wake up tomorrow and not regret this money for the sake of interest and my own comparison...
Again.. I have to say my listening session was not conclusive..I would ideally like to spend a lot more time with them in my own environment and with my own equipment. But with the 20 and 630 there were IMHO more similarities than differences.
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Rob80b
Headphoneus Supremus
On that I can agree, relatively speaking pretty poor if I may say so…and yes as I’ve mentioned ….
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Ah, you 're gonna love the NDH 30!On that I can agree, relatively speaking pretty poor if I may say so…and yes as I’ve mentioned …. non conclusive.
My two stations currently at home, non to shabby... I believe.
and this one at the back of the living/media room behind the sofa, also using and another Cambridge CXN but a V2.
Main listening station. : )
Dyaudio and more Bryston gear...
Terriero
Headphoneus Supremus
Someone added a tail to your last picOn that I can agree, relatively speaking pretty poor if I may say so…and yes as I’ve mentioned …. non conclusive.
My two stations currently at home, non to shabby... I believe.
and this one at the back of the living/media room behind the sofa, also using and another Cambridge CXN but a V2.
Main listening station. : )
Dyaudio and more Bryston gear...
I love your place.
Rob80b
Headphoneus Supremus
Yep cat's out of the bag..thanks.Someone added a tail to your last pic
Sadly his musical sister for 17 years passed away last spring.
hd650 vs ndh30. Would someone write about them who can think of how they differ in real use? I'm not interested in the frequency curve now. just which one is technically better. clarity, resolution, details, separation, transparency. then, in terms of tone, which goes deeper into the sub bass range, how powerful and extended are they. how extended and textured his highs are.
@Koren
As far as I am concerned my comments (and measurements) are spread in this thread starting from page 7. I have two HD 650 (2003 and 2021) and it is very easy to describe my comparative impressions with NDH 30, owned for 3 weeks now. (You can see the electronics in my signature.)
Answering your specific inquiries:
Technicalities:
- Distortion: NDH 30 audibly better than HD 650 in bass range. I haven't measured THD but as given by manufacturers it is: 0.05% HD 650 - 0.03% NDH 30, 1kHz. This difference is way bigger in bass for sure.
- Clarity, resolution, detail: It has drawn my attention from the first seconds. I bought the NDH 30 after 1.5 hours of comparative listening with my HD 650 through RME ADI DAC 2 FS. The Neumann is totally on another class. It has impressively more detail and resolution, extremely low level details in recordings are heard which are masked with the HD 650. One of my most revealing comparisons ever.
- Separation of the instruments and of their timbre is significantly easier and very-very satisfying to hear. A very natural experience.
- Bass!!! The slightly augmented bass of the HD 650 in the 100-300Hz area disappears an gives way to an absolute extension down to 20 Hz in the NDH 30. The HD 650 lacks much of this sub-bass. A lot of new "things" are suddenly heard below 80 Hz that were overlooked before. The quality, speed, control and new detail of bass are astonishing!
- Transparency and speed are very high and are offering all the above. I think I began to hear the differences between the digital filters of the Qutest for the first time (out of question with the HD 650). This is something that I need to investigate with blind tests too, I am not totally sure yet. Normally they shouldn't be audible (I always thought different filters are little more than a gimmick).
As a whole the NDH 30 sounds more balanced and less warm than the HD 650 because of the slightly augmented high bass of the latter (2-3 dB). This may sound to some people as slight brightness. For me this headphone has brought new joy in listening and I find my self forgetting all those differences and listening with new attention and commitment to every recording. This is a very positive sing by itself!
As far as I am concerned my comments (and measurements) are spread in this thread starting from page 7. I have two HD 650 (2003 and 2021) and it is very easy to describe my comparative impressions with NDH 30, owned for 3 weeks now. (You can see the electronics in my signature.)
Answering your specific inquiries:
Technicalities:
- Distortion: NDH 30 audibly better than HD 650 in bass range. I haven't measured THD but as given by manufacturers it is: 0.05% HD 650 - 0.03% NDH 30, 1kHz. This difference is way bigger in bass for sure.
- Clarity, resolution, detail: It has drawn my attention from the first seconds. I bought the NDH 30 after 1.5 hours of comparative listening with my HD 650 through RME ADI DAC 2 FS. The Neumann is totally on another class. It has impressively more detail and resolution, extremely low level details in recordings are heard which are masked with the HD 650. One of my most revealing comparisons ever.
- Separation of the instruments and of their timbre is significantly easier and very-very satisfying to hear. A very natural experience.
- Bass!!! The slightly augmented bass of the HD 650 in the 100-300Hz area disappears an gives way to an absolute extension down to 20 Hz in the NDH 30. The HD 650 lacks much of this sub-bass. A lot of new "things" are suddenly heard below 80 Hz that were overlooked before. The quality, speed, control and new detail of bass are astonishing!
- Transparency and speed are very high and are offering all the above. I think I began to hear the differences between the digital filters of the Qutest for the first time (out of question with the HD 650). This is something that I need to investigate with blind tests too, I am not totally sure yet. Normally they shouldn't be audible (I always thought different filters are little more than a gimmick).
As a whole the NDH 30 sounds more balanced and less warm than the HD 650 because of the slightly augmented high bass of the latter (2-3 dB). This may sound to some people as slight brightness. For me this headphone has brought new joy in listening and I find my self forgetting all those differences and listening with new attention and commitment to every recording. This is a very positive sing by itself!
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Rob80b
Headphoneus Supremus
I've owned the HD650 3 times, also the HD6XX and auditioned the NDH30 twice (not under ideal conditions) but the the Neumann definitely appear do everything bigger and better, As headstef mentioned with base there really is no comparison. The Neumann are detailed but an easy listen so in that realm similar to the 650. Having said that I was not a big fan of the 650 which for my own preferences are a bit too laid back so that my interest would wain, much preferring the HD660S which IMHO are better articulated, more clearly defined base with more image separation and layering. The Neumann in terms of vitality are probably closer to the HD660, but again with regards to low sub base cannot compete with the NDH30.
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Rob80b
Headphoneus Supremus
Still a work in progress... but instead of paper towel now have incorporated similarly porous polyester felt for aesthetics and longevity. : )This simply cannot be! I DON'T BELIEVE!!!
YOU described the headphones that no one has yet been able to make. It's just incredible and impossible features!!!
.....
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