[Frank I]

 
Quote:

I recently took delivery of an Onkyo C-S5VL SACD/CD player.  I didn't buy it for the SACD playback, but more so for the redbook CD playback.  There aren't many reviews out there, or posts here about it, so I thought I would just post some quick impressions.  These are just quick impressions because I haven't had it all that long, but there are some characteristics that are very obvious to me already.
 
My setup:
Onkyo C-S5VL
Woo 3 OTL amp
Beyerdynamic DT990/600 ohms
 
My old source: Teac "Reference" PD-H300mkIII CD player.  I got it new for $100US.  This wasn't a bad little player, and I definitely think it performed above its price point.  Although, despite it having the word "reference" in its name, I don't think it is on par with true "reference" players.  It seems like just about every manufacturer maker puts the word "reference" in their product descriptions these day without warrant.  Anyway, this player wasn't bad.  It did have a few weaknesses, though, that were highlighted by my amp and cans.  Mainly, it was just a smidge light in the bass.  Just enough to rob a little energy from some good rock recordings.  However, most importantly, vocals were slightly recessed.  They blended into the background a little bit.  Now, I completely think that differences between digital sources are subtle at best.  But, sometimes these subtle differences can synergize with other components in your chain to make things a little more obvious.  In my case, I could easily tell that bass, energy, and vocals were just a tad lacking.  They lacked enough to make we want more.  Another thing left me slightly confused about this player.  It was a smidge laid back, especially in the mids, but also had a hint of digital graininess to it.  I could detect the digital graininess even when played through my tube OTL amp.
 
Enter the Onkyo.  This seems to have corrected the problems mentioned above.  During my first audition of it, I immediately noticed more bass and more PRaT (even though I don't really like that term).  The music, particularly rock, seemed more alive.  It wasn't night and day difference, but just enough to make notice some more energy.
 
I then proceeded to go through many of my favorite albums to reacquaint myself with them through the new player.  It was a similar story: they all seemed to have just a hint more bass than I remember hearing from my old source.
 
After going through several of my favorite CDs and getting a sound imagine stuck in my head, I then hooked up my old source to have a re-listen.
 
The differences were extremely subtle, but they were there.  The Onkyo has a hint more bass, but feels a tad more alive.  There is more energy in some songs.  Rush's "Tom Sawyer" sounds rather pedestrian on the Teac, but it sounds more alive on the Onkyo.  Also, the vocals are slightly more pronounced on the Onkyo, which is a good thing.  They are no longer fighting for space with background instruments.
 
Another neat thing I noticed, which took several times going back and forth between the sources, is that the Onkyo sounds more analog than the Teac.  It's just a little more smooth and musical.  I'm sure this has a lot to do with the digital filters that Onkyo utilizes.  I don't claim to know anything about them, or how they work, but I can say that they do alter the sound slightly.  I settled on Filter 4, which is supposed to be some sort of apodizing filter, because it sounds very analog.  It's the most vinyl-like I've ever heard a CD.  Now, I'm not claiming that CDs are ever going to sound like vinyl; I'm just saying that this is the best I've heard a CD at approaching the smoothness of vinyl.  The gap between vinyl and CDs is till large, but this made it just a tad smaller.  Overall, I like it very much.
 
I still have a lot more listening to do and more observations to think about.  I still can't tell any differences in soundstage width or depth, or even overall detail extracted by the Onkyo compared to the Teac.  But, I can say without a doubt that the Onkyo is slightly better than the Teac in terms or bass, PRaT, vocals, and smoothness.
 
I like it a lot.  Well worth the price.  I'm sure there are better players out there, but this one has made me very happy.

 
Nice review and I use the Onkyo DX7555 which they really did a nice job with and I have seen favorable reviews on your unit. I like my DX7555 but use the Marantz DV6001 for my headphone rig.

 

[Permagrin]

Well I've been loving my Onkyo, spending money left and right on SACDs. Yikes!
 
I tried to find a straight up SACD thread but I couldn't find one.
 
Anyway, the purpose of this post was to alert anyone interested about this: http://www.musicdirect.com/product/88670 *
 
MFSL hybrid SACDs of the SRV catalogue coming out this month (estimated).
 
Of course I had to preorder all 5, I think I may need a second job lol.
 
*available elsewhere as well, link used for flowery descriptive purposes only 

 

[bellahsu]

I have been using Onkyo C-S5VL and Dynaco MKIII to drive my vintage Spendor for about a year. The combination makes a fair number of my CD collection somewhat enjoyable. I believe the sound quality of C-S5VL is greatly benefited by the architecture of Wolfson DAC which includes multi-bit sigma delta modulator, build in advanced filters, and direct analogue voltage outputs...etc. Speaking of the analog output stage of C-S5VL, I did not see any Opamp on the main board (which is a good thing) but four transistors close to the RCA output connectors. My guess is that these four transistors are used as buffer to drive the load. I was wondering which capacitors on board are used as signal coupling. Does anyone have the schematic of C-S5V ?

 

[low-d]

hey hodgjy, i'm only just getting in on this. two things: i got the onkyo but had to return it because it was defective (the tray kept opening and closing like crazy, it was entertaining for a while), so i didn't have the opp to hear more than a couple cds while it behaved. wonder if anyone else experienced tech problems; i dont see what i could possibly have done wrong, i connected only the analog, period. but now for the more important debate: all the qualities you found were "subtle" - "a tad" more bass, and so on. i wonder if you had a chance to a-b compare a well remastered rock cd with a sacd one (i am primarily interested in sacd). for instance, the stones are a good example. famously, everybody got confused because abkco released almost simultaneously a dsd remaster series and a sacd series. i have a bit of one and a bit of the other - so far, unable to compare, but the dsd remasters are excellent. anything this subtle in your experience? 

 

[Permagrin]

Quote:

hey hodgjy, i'm only just getting in on this. two things: i got the onkyo but had to return it because it was defective (the tray kept opening and closing like crazy, it was entertaining for a while), so i didn't have the opp to hear more than a couple cds while it behaved. wonder if anyone else experienced tech problems; i dont see what i could possibly have done wrong, i connected only the analog, period. but now for the more important debate: all the qualities you found were "subtle" - "a tad" more bass, and so on. i wonder if you had a chance to a-b compare a well remastered rock cd with a sacd one (i am primarily interested in sacd). for instance, the stones are a good example. famously, everybody got confused because abkco released almost simultaneously a dsd remaster series and a sacd series. i have a bit of one and a bit of the other - so far, unable to compare, but the dsd remasters are excellent. anything this subtle in your experience? 

 
I would be interested as well. Given the same mastering the only difference would be the resolution and filtering I guess. The DBTers say there's proof no one can hear the difference between redbook and SACD. Maybe tonight I'll sit down and A/B switching back and forth from SACD and CD mode with dual layer SACDs but the difference between the filters would probably negate any real breakthroughs.
 
 

 

[low-d]

Let me know how that A-B goes, Permagrin. Meanwhile, here's another question for everyone, but definitely for you, given your image with impressive headphones. I use headphones quite a lot. My speakers are very good, at least to my ear, made to my specs by a friend who used to work for MacIntosh; my headphones are an old Sony model, MDR-7509, that probably doesn't exist anymore but has served me very well for both listening and recording for a very long time - I remember being wowed by these above all others I'd tried at that time, except Grado, which I couldn't afford. So, assuming that the speakers and the headphones are of equal quality, are you likely to lose something by listening to an SACD with headphones, directly through the SACD player. I don't have a pre-amp, having opted instead for an Adcom straight line controller, which I love to death - the thing produces no engine noise whatsoever, not being an engine, although if I were to go for vinyl at this point, it wouldn't drive a turntable.

 

[Permagrin]

Quote:

Let me know how that A-B goes, Permagrin. Meanwhile, here's another question for everyone, but definitely for you, given your image with impressive headphones. I use headphones quite a lot. My speakers are very good, at least to my ear, made to my specs by a friend who used to work for MacIntosh; my headphones are an old Sony model, MDR-7509, that probably doesn't exist anymore but has served me very well for both listening and recording for a very long time - I remember being wowed by these above all others I'd tried at that time, except Grado, which I couldn't afford. So, assuming that the speakers and the headphones are of equal quality, are you likely to lose something by listening to an SACD with headphones, directly through the SACD player. I don't have a pre-amp, having opted instead for an Adcom straight line controller, which I love to death - the thing produces no engine noise whatsoever, not being an engine, although if I were to go for vinyl at this point, it wouldn't drive a turntable.

I did some quick A/Bing today. Only used one dual layer SACD, Fritz Reiner's Chicago Symphony Orchestra playing Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade (Living Stereo), a recording that I have become quite intimate with so I figured it would be the most revealing.
 
The only problem is when switching between layers it takes about 8-10 seconds which is way too long when trying to A/B something that could be quite minuscule to begin with and the other major factor, perhaps my listening comprehension/physical hearing sucks lol. Anyway, I could not perceive any differences. That does not bother me in the slightest though as I've come to know the best reason for getting into SACDs, superior masterings!
 
I also plugged the LCD-2s straight into the Onkyo, and as I remember, the max volume is about 50% of my normal listening volume. And thusly that loss of driving power severely constrains the sound reproduction from the LCD-2s.
 
I then pulled my HD 650's out of the cobwebs for the first time to see how the Onkyo itself would drive them. Ironically the max volume from the Onkyo was, as far as I could tell, the exact volume I normally listen at. Naturally it was a bittersweet reunion as I then plugged them into the Burson to gauge how the fared against my learned sound, the LCD-2s. Constrained, muted, a little sibilance, it was like meeting the ghost of a long lost lover. I guess I need to find them a new home now. /cry
 
 

 

[low-d]

Very interesting indeed. The thing is, it's impossible not to use headphones unless you live in your own house. I can get into a pretty trancelike mood and create  a "wall of sound" that takes me to another dimension - generally around 11 pm. My neighbors are utterly indifferent to my need for travels to that other dimension.
You did your comparison test with a classical recording, and I envy you. I sort of "stumbled" upon SACDs, buying them because I wanted, as you yourself put it, superior mastering, but not quite realizing what they were, so classical recordings have not yet made it onto the list. Inevitably, they're next, since, as it turns out, rock SACDs are more or less dead for the immediate future. Probably something to do with my bad karma, lol. Not to sound pompous, but my tastes are eclectic, from Scott Walker to Wagner, so much as I am frustrated on the rock side, I am licking my chops about all the lovely morsels awaiting me on the classical side.
I've tried various methods of testing not the CD player but the differences between old CDs and new remasters (as, I suppose, everyone has done when first playing with these neat new toys): one is picking a specific instrumental line - the bass is the most obvious suspect in remasters - and remembering how one particularly outstanding stretch of it goes; this usually doesn't disappear from my mind while i'm waiting for the other CD to get to that spot: if i can sing the notes of the passage in question with one CD and they're buried in mud in the other, that's a pretty clear difference. Other differences are subtler: wind instruments can gain in shriekiness as they gain in upper dynamics, so a good remaster has to fight that. But in general, trying to remember the minutiae of an entire song - or, worse, a whole movement in classical music - and holding on to it mentally while you're transfering to the second version and listening to it is very difficult. It's rather like actually noticing that one pianist plays something faster than the other - for a grand total of five seconds per twenty-minute work.
Bottom line: I need to buy a house in the country and have subwoofers built into my floor. Would anyone care to fund this project? Just kidding. 

 

[Permagrin]

Quote:

Very interesting indeed. The thing is, it's impossible not to use headphones unless you live in your own house. I can get into a pretty trancelike mood and create  a "wall of sound" that takes me to another dimension - generally around 11 pm. My neighbors are utterly indifferent to my need for travels to that other dimension.
You did your comparison test with a classical recording, and I envy you. I sort of "stumbled" upon SACDs, buying them because I wanted, as you yourself put it, superior mastering, but not quite realizing what they were, so classical recordings have not yet made it onto the list. Inevitably, they're next, since, as it turns out, rock SACDs are more or less dead for the immediate future. Probably something to do with my bad karma, lol. Not to sound pompous, but my tastes are eclectic, from Scott Walker to Wagner, so much as I am frustrated on the rock side, I am licking my chops about all the lovely morsels awaiting me on the classical side.
I've tried various methods of testing not the CD player but the differences between old CDs and new remasters (as, I suppose, everyone has done when first playing with these neat new toys): one is picking a specific instrumental line - the bass is the most obvious suspect in remasters - and remembering how one particularly outstanding stretch of it goes; this usually doesn't disappear from my mind while i'm waiting for the other CD to get to that spot: if i can sing the notes of the passage in question with one CD and they're buried in mud in the other, that's a pretty clear difference. Other differences are subtler: wind instruments can gain in shriekiness as they gain in upper dynamics, so a good remaster has to fight that. But in general, trying to remember the minutiae of an entire song - or, worse, a whole movement in classical music - and holding on to it mentally while you're transfering to the second version and listening to it is very difficult. It's rather like actually noticing that one pianist plays something faster than the other - for a grand total of five seconds per twenty-minute work.
Bottom line: I need to buy a house in the country and have subwoofers built into my floor. Would anyone care to fund this project? Just kidding. 

 

I feel for you, my tastes are quite eclectic as well. I'm really waiting for the day when I'll actually like jazz as that's the other 49% of the SACDs made. I'm 32 so it shouldn't be long now right? Another 10 tor 20 years? 

 
 
The passages that I listened to were mostly quite simple, one or two instruments playing simultaneously, so I figured it would be a reasonable comparison. I did also compare the complex passages to listen for possible congestion/less-detailed sound but could not perceive any.
 
Cheers!
 

 

[buson160man]

 I heard about this player recently from a friend.I took a chance and ordered the onkyo cs5vl from amazon.They are offering the player at a sizeable discount.I have been reading about the wolfson 8742 chip and have noticed it has been implemented by several people in their latest players and latest dacs.I checked out the wolfson chip on their website and it sounds like a pretty good chip.This player has a wolfson 8742 chip in it and from what I have been reading about the player most of the opinions of it are very favorable.I thought that at the price the onkyo c-s5vl was a good way to check out the performance of the chip at a down to earth price.
   I am in the process of breaking the player in and so far after about two days I am hearing some pretty good things .I did change the stock fuse with a hifi tuning fuse that I was using in another player that I upgraded to the hifi tuning supreme fuse.The value on the fuse is 2 amp small fast blow and since I was not using that fuse  I popped it in the onkyo and got a fair improvement in sound quality even though the player is still probably not fleshed in all the way but I am getting away from the sound of the onkyo player.
     The player sounds pretty amazing for the price.This chip has alot of performance.The player sounds fairly analog like with the fuse upgrade.I am not sure if it is better than my denon 3930ci on cd playback but i must say the player sounds a lot better than the denon when playing sacd discs which seems to be the strength of this player from what I have read on the internet.The selectable filter settings on the player are a nice option for tailoring the sound to your system and sound prefences.There are 5 selectable filter settings for cd with the filter 1 being the default setting for the player.The player also has an option at your discression to implement any one of 4 filters for tailoring the sound of sacds.I like that options are optional and not intrusive of sacd playback and can be implemented if that is your preference.
  The denon was a top player when I bought it but things change pretty quickly in the digital domain.I t is possible that this inexpensive player will outperform my denon on both cd  and definitely on sacd playback.But at least the denon is a stellar dvd player with a superior realta processor for usampling dvds to 1080p resolution.

 

[buson160man]

 
Quote:

 I heard about this player recently from a friend.I took a chance and ordered the onkyo cs5vl from amazon.They are offering the player at a sizeable discount.I have been reading about the wolfson 8742 chip and have noticed it has been implemented by several people in their latest players and latest dacs.I checked out the wolfson chip on their website and it sounds like a pretty good chip.This player has a wolfson 8742 chip in it and from what I have been reading about the player most of the opinions of it are very favorable.I thought that at the price the onkyo c-s5vl was a good way to check out the performance of the chip at a down to earth price.
   I am in the process of breaking the player in and so far after about two days I am hearing some pretty good things .I did change the stock fuse with a hifi tuning fuse that I was using in another player that I upgraded to the hifi tuning supreme fuse.The value on the fuse is 2 amp small fast blow and since I was not using that fuse  I popped it in the onkyo and got a fair improvement in sound quality even though the player is still probably not fleshed in all the way but I am getting away from the sound of the onkyo player.
     The player sounds pretty amazing for the price.This chip has alot of performance.The player sounds fairly analog like with the fuse upgrade.I am not sure if it is better than my denon 3930ci on cd playback but i must say the player sounds a lot better than the denon when playing sacd discs which seems to be the strength of this player from what I have read on the internet.The selectable filter settings on the player are a nice option for tailoring the sound to your system and sound prefences.There are 5 selectable filter settings for cd with the filter 1 being the default setting for the player.The player also has an option at your discression to implement any one of 4 filters for tailoring the sound of sacds.I like that options are optional and not intrusive of sacd playback and can be implemented if that is your preference.
  The denon was a top player when I bought it but things change pretty quickly in the digital domain.I t is possible that this inexpensive player will outperform my denon on both cd  and definitely on sacd playback.But at least the denon is a stellar dvd player with a superior realta processor for usampling dvds to 1080p resolution.

 
Well it is now april of 2012 and I have been using the onkyo cs-5vl for about two months and It has improved getting even more analog like.This player definitely bested my denon 3931ci on both cd and sacd discs.For the price this player is unbeatable imho if they are still available from amazon.I have read some of the other comments about this player and though I am later in the game I have to reinforce other comments about the non-fatigueing analog nature of this player.I can listen to this player for hours on end and I do not get any fatigue whatsoever from listening to cds or sacds on this machine.I only wished i had heard about this player a couple of years ago so i could enjoy its analog like reproduction for those two years.But I suppose that at the time they were not available for the amazon discount at that time.So if i might suggest that anyone looking for a cd/sacd player only(no digital inputs on this machine) at a very reasonable price, check it out on amazon while they are still available.Heck even if you can afford a more expensive player you would not do badly if you bought this player anyway. Imho it is a no brainer for the discount price.

 

[hodgjy]

I recently added the Musical Fidelity V-DAC II to my system, and it is a slight improvement over the analog out of the Onkyo.  The fact there was an upgrade is a testament to the V-DAC II, and the fact it was only a slight upgrade is a testament to the Onkyo.
 
See my review on the V-DAC for more details.
 

 

[buson160man]

Quote:

I recently added the Musical Fidelity V-DAC II to my system, and it is a slight improvement over the analog out of the Onkyo.  The fact there was an upgrade is a testament to the V-DAC II, and the fact it was only a slight upgrade is a testament to the Onkyo.
 
See my review on the V-DAC for more details.
 

 If iI am not beeing too bold may I suggest you replace the stock fuse in your player with a hifi-tuning supreme fuse.I realized a noticeable improvement in the onkyos performance when I upgraded to the supreme fuse.I have recently upgraded the power cord on the onkyo as well.I must be crazy but I purchased a nordost brahma power cord at half price.Though even at half price it still ran over seven hundred dollars.I put the cord on the onkyo to try it and wow,bam,pow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The sound oif this player with the fuse and power cord upgrade is astounding.Things have never sounded this dynamic before.The brahma has now become permanently attached to my onkyo.I am amazed at the sound quality of this closeout priced sacd/cd player.I never thought it would be this good but I sure am glad I took a chance on the onkyo and will never look back.

 

[drewjp]

I find your listening results intriguing. I owned the Onkyo for a brief period, but I found that although it was very detailed, the sound was too cold and analytical for me. I ended up selling it and getting a NAD CDP and enjoy its more analog (very Rega-like) sound.

 

[hodgjy]

This could be the result of two things:
 
1) I listened exclusively to the Onkyo through tube amps, so there is a warming effect there.
 
2) Did you adjust the digital filters?  Filter 4 has a smooth, almost analog flavor to it.
 
Quote:

I find your listening results intriguing. I owned the Onkyo for a brief period, but I found that although it was very detailed, the sound was too cold and analytical for me. I ended up selling it and getting a NAD CDP and enjoy its more analog (very Rega-like) sound.