[pbirkett]

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Originally posted by zeplin i have to agree that the 600's and the phones before them are not "the best" at playing rock music. the 650 however, clearly changes all that. the 650's are the biggest move towards a more upfront sound than any other senn phone

In my system, the HD650 is the most laid back phone I have ever heard, how anyone can say they are upfront is beyond me, I felt they were totally pipe and slippers. That includes the 580 which sounded marginally more forward and lively than the 650 to my ears. Unless of course, IYO, upfront = laid back

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even more, sennheisers decision to move the 650's sound closer to the grado/cd3000 type sound while still maintaining that classic lush/warm senn sound is the best decision any headphone manufacturer has made in recent times.

I fail to see how something can sound laid back and forward at the same time as you put it. The HD650 sounds absolutely NOTHING like the CD3000, or any Grado that I've heard.

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i think the 650's, in my setup at least, shine their very best with electronica and are the complete opposite of slow. they are a perfect in between of my two previous phones...the ATW1000 and HD600, both from the opposite ends of the spectrum. so if you think all senn phones can't really do that well with rock, think again.

I felt the 650's were quite poor for electronica, at least in my system. Then again I was using the stock cable, and as someone like Geek would put it, I aint using a blockhead, so I guess what can I expect. I used to turn them up so loud my ears were ringing just to try and make the sound involving. My electronica loving friends also compared the Sony, HD650 and Beyer DT531 for electronic music, and it finished third in everyones opinions. One thing that struck me was that they were slow sounding.

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people throw around generalizations like senn=boring, and sony=exciting.

In the end, that was my exact impression.

PS. None of this is an attack at you, but the headphone being described here sounds very little like the 650 I had.

 

[Zu!]

I personally love my 650's for all types electronica music, better than any grado or beyer headphone that i have heard.
I haven't heard the cd-3000 though but if its bright i cant see myself liking it.

 

[pbirkett]

CD3k is bright, but IMO electronica definitely sounds best on brighter stuff. A lot of it is recorded poorly and sounds muffled on systems that arent bright, even when its done right, the brightness helps you hear the detail, convey an atmosphere and adds excitement. On the 650 for me, quite a lot of it sounded muddy (although I must add, it was not a problem for most "normal" music).

 

[fewtch]

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Originally posted by Leporello Indeed it is subjective. To my ears the major shortcoming of the Hd600s is that they are bass-heavy.

They are not (and I'm speaking objectively, not subjectively). What makes them sound "bass heavy" is the famous mid-treble dip (around 8.5 KHz).

In other words -- take away a region toward the top end, and the bottom end sounds more pronounced.

 

[fewtch]

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Originally posted by pbirkett CD3k is bright, but IMO electronica definitely sounds best on brighter stuff. A lot of it is recorded poorly and sounds muffled on systems that arent bright, even when its done right, the brightness helps you hear the detail, convey an atmosphere and adds excitement.

This may be true, but an "atmospheric/exciting" sound just ain't accurate. I guess people just don't want to hear recordings "as they were recorded" (and it's hard to blame them, as there are so many poor recordings). However, I consistently fail to see why people would pay so much money for artificial sound -- you could honestly do the same thing by sticking an equalizer or other DSP stuff in-line with a cheaper pair of cans.

 

[pbirkett]

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Originally posted by fewtch This may be true, but an "atmospheric/exciting" sound just ain't accurate. I guess people just don't want to hear recordings "as they were recorded" (and it's hard to blame them, as there are so many poor recordings). However, I consistently fail to see why people would pay so much money for artificial sound -- you could honestly do the same thing by sticking an equalizer or other DSP stuff in-line with a cheaper pair of cans.

You have a point, but EQ'ing something will not give you soundstage that isnt there without it, it will not give back detail that is not there, it will not smooth out the sound or make it rougher. Theres more to the cans as to whether they have a certain freq response, and these are just some reasons why people pick the Sony's over anything else. Its fashionable to call the CD3000 fake sounding, and without having a particularly varied taste of music (mine is trance trance and more trance

) then its hard to say, but headphones sound inherently fake anyway by their very nature. That being the case, I just pick something that sounds good to me or not.

 

[zeplin]

pbirkett,
uhhhh, i said a MOVE MORE towards the grado/cd3k type sound (i.e. more upfront than the 600's are). i didn't mean they sound exactly like them.

like i said earlier, the 650's still maintain that characteristic senn lush/warm sound, but in the upper ranges, adopt a more up front sound...RELATIVE to other senn phones. i hope that's clear enough. you see the 650's as the most laid back phone because your are DIRECTLY comparing it to the cd3k's overall character. but since i see the cd3k's as an overly exaggerated, bright sounding headphone, the 650's are fair from being anything but laid back.

 

[Beagle]

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Originally posted by tom hankins This comment about the Senns. "not being fast enough to accurately reproduce the start/stop contrasts of music and microdynamics". IS NOT TRUE. If you are in my neck of the woods come by and hear my system and you can see you don't have a clue as to what your talking about.

Don't get me all wrong. I think the HD650 is a wonderful headphone, from what I heard out of the Max. It's very smooth and clear. They are great at what they do. I just found it laid back and a bit slow in portraying the subtleties and quickness of picked guitar strings or struck cymbals and percussion. Y'know, that pace and timing thing? But since I don't know what I'm talking about, you can ignore that.

 

[smeggy]

I don't know.
Taking a lead from another thread, I think it's more a case of poor recordings making the Senn's eemingly lacking for rock rather than the Senn's themselves being at fault. The Senn's are very good cans and given good recordings the Senn will be as good as any other 'phone. Up front and in yer face aren't supposed to be the ideal for any musical type if the recordings were't so crappy. I blame the source myself, in this case the recordings.

Compared to the average Jazz album, rock recordings are really piss-poor and something needs to be done to eradicate inept engineers from my fave genre.

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

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Originally posted by Beagle I think the HD650 is a wonderful headphone, from what I heard out of the Max. It's very smooth and clear. They are great at what they do. I just found it laid back and a bit slow in portraying the subtleties and quickness of picked guitar strings or struck cymbals and percussion. Y'know, that pace and timing thing?

That is my same opinion about the HD600?Equinox/Max, it is very clear, but smoothed over to a fault, without killer impact or the greatest rythm/boogie around.

 

[markl]

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This may be true, but an "atmospheric/exciting" sound just ain't accurate. I guess people just don't want to hear recordings "as they were recorded" (and it's hard to blame them, as there are so many poor recordings). However, I consistently fail to see why people would pay so much money for artificial sound -- you could honestly do the same thing by sticking an equalizer or other DSP stuff in-line with a cheaper pair of cans.

fewtch, I forget, did you ever get to hear the CD3000? Overly damped-down, constrained, muffled, and ghostly sound is not "accurate" either.

 

[fewtch]

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Originally posted by markl fewtch, I forget, did you ever get to hear the CD3000? Overly damped-down, constrained, muffled, and ghostly sound is not "accurate" either.

No, I haven't. I'm going on the descriptions of others, which may or may not be accurate in the context of my own gear (consider this a public admission). Satisfied?

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

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Originally posted by fewtch No, I haven't. I'm going on the descriptions of others, which may or may not be accurate in the context of my own gear (consider this a public admission). Satisfied?

Wow, I didn't know that! Kinda makes a lot of what you have said in the past completely vapid. Oh well. You should hear them someday, they're pretty damned choice. Until then, stick to making claims about stuff you've actually used.

 

[fewtch]

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Originally posted by Iron_Dreamer Wow, I didn't know that! Kinda makes a lot of what you have said in the past completely vapid. Oh well. You should hear them someday, they're pretty damned choice. Until then, stick to making claims about stuff you've actually used.

I've made no direct claims about the sound of the cans, having not heard them. The comment Markl was remarking on was referring back to someone else's comment that they considered CD3k's to be artificial sounding. Then, I asked "why do people buy artificial sounding cans?" I never once said that I personally consider the sound of the CD3k to be artificial -- having not heard them, I have no direct experience with how they sound. However, it's easy to believe that they're a little artificial sounding, because so many people have said it.

I've generally found that when a ton of people say something about a pair of cans, there's some truth to it. Lots of people say Senn HD600s are somewhat distant and laid back sounding. Turns out to be true. Lots of people say that the Sony V6 has a "smiley curve" sort of sound. Turns out to be true. I see no reason to disbelieve a large consensus. Lots of people who've heard the CD3ks say they're a bit artificial and echoey, with prominent highs. Unless or until I hear them for myself, I'll go with it. If my attitude offends you, you're always free to skip over my posts or put me on ignore.

 

[markl]

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Satisfied?