[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally posted by Geek Bad recordings do suck through the HD600. I've heard the ER4S on a pretty good setup (cosmic reference & MOH(R) w/attenuator through an oversampling CD source) and they do have a great midrange, but the highs are much more articulate, detailed, and natural on HD600s. The HD600s sound great on great recordings, but they sound like muddled crap on bad recordings and equpiment.

That's no reason not to necessarily use HD600s with less expensive equipment and crappy recordings, as long as one is prepared to hear what their equipment and recordings really sound like.

Not everyone who can afford HD600/650s can afford $4000 worth of accompanying gear. And anyway, pricier equipment won't make a poor recording sound good... if it does, it's adding coloration. There may be truth to better equipment making more "musical sense" out of lousy recordings, but it won't turn a poor recording into a good one.

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally posted by Howie I think it all depends on musical tastes. You really can't point and say the HD600s aren't good for rock because they ARE good for rock just that it doesn't appeal to as many rockers as it does to classical or jazz listeners.

If your headphone is anywhere near half-decent, it should sound good with all types of music. If the characteristic of the HD600 is bland, smooth and boring, then any music played though them will come out that way. The headphone will not single out particular types of music to impose it's character on. If it smooths over dynamics in rock, it's smoothing over, jazz, classical, or polkas.

Quote:

Originally posted by Geek There are better choices for rock headphones, and the HD600s only truly sound great for rock on a balanced setup, which is well out of a decent price range for most. Cheers, Geek

That's a bit of a snobbish comment. Regardless of setup and cost, Sennheisers simply are not fast enough to accurately reproduce the stop/start contrasts of music and microdynamics. It's like expecting a Cadillac to corner at high speeds as well as a Ferrari. Or like saying you have to feed George Bush pricy food in order for him to sound intelligent. Ain't gonna happen.

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally posted by Beagle If your headphone is anywhere near half-decent, it should sound good with all types of music. If the characteristic of the HD600 is bland, smooth and boring, then any music played though them will come out that way.

That is my opinion of them.

Quote:

Originally posted by Beagle Or like saying you have to feed George Bush pricy food in order for him to sound intelligent. Ain't gonna happen.

ROTFLMAO!!!

 

[Textual Intercou]

Quote:

Originally posted by Beagle Or like saying you have to feed George Bush pricy food in order for him to sound intelligent.

makes you wonder what if noam chompsky had kept kosher

 

[NightWoundsTime]

Quote:

Originally posted by fewtch I do share the opinion that they aren't headbanger cans and won't sound upfront/"in your face" no matter what equipment is used -- however, they are incredibly good with pop music in general, ambient (extremely good), film soundtracks, jazz, folk and many others.

As I said in my first post I'm more than happy with Jazz/Classical/Acoustic music in these cans. I'm ecstatic you could say. But when the transients start coming and large walls of noise are present I'm simply not happy. I'm also not even going to think of spending 5000 on source/amp or anything else for that matter. Maybe I went out of my class with the 600's but I don't regret it one bit. I should be getting my Marantz 1060B back from the shop tomorrow, and perhaps its' tone controls & bass boost will temporarily relieve the situation. Eventually I think I'll take the Grado plunge

 

[NightWoundsTime]

Quote:

Originally posted by go_vtec Just like couple of postings suggest, try non-lossy source for the rock (CD/SACD/DVD-A). I sort of gave up listening to anything under 192kps encoded mp3 for dynamic music (rock, classic, and metal). -Mike

I mostly use CD or DVD-A, albeit on my computer. I do have a lot of MP3's & MP3 burned cd's, but my quality control has been pretty strenuous for a while now (192 absolute minimum). I've done some listening tests and find the difference between a 224kbps mp3 and lossless completely lost on me. I for one am happy about that fact

 

[Howie]

Nightwounds.

When I bought my HD600s I originally thought that I would use it for gaming as well. I found that (even with an amp) the sound simply sounded thin on my computer. I never bothered trying to find a solution though. So it could be that your HD600s aren't being driven properly. With that in mind, try connecting the HD600s to a CD player's headphone jacks or a HT receiver if you can't find a headphone amp. See if that helps. If you get the sound that you like from your rock recordings there then it's definitely not the phones.

While nobody would consider the HD600s to be a bass-heavy headphone, bass is highly subjective. Raise the volume and you just increased your bass output. Also, you can try EQing the sound to see if you can boost the bass up a bit. From my experience, interconnects and powercords (for the amp) in particular can do wonders to bass. From my limited experience with MP3s bass is usually never a problem. If bass is there for jazz and classical recordings (what about pop?) but not for rock then I think that the bass you're getting is simply not to your liking (or simply you're a more experienced rock listener than anything else and so didn't realize that those jazz and classical recordings are also lacking in bass). Cause for me being a primarily jazz listner, bass in pop and rock recordings always border on being too much. A thin sound is a thin sound. Make sure you're simply not getting a thin sound overall.

A final thought. The HD600s are a world-class headphone. It is not about "outclassing" yourself. It is always recommended that you need an amp to drive the HD600s. Like anything in audio, just cause you don't have that amp it doesn't mean you can't enjoy the 600s but obviously when you get that amp your sound would be much improved. Not everyone is fortunate enough to buy everything at once. Taking your time and building around the HD600s isn't a bad thing at all.

 

[aerius]

I own both the Grado 225 (often called the best rock 'phone) and Senn 580. I've now owned the Grados for almost 2 months and have finally gone through all my CDs, including a lot of Black Sabbath, Metallica, Slayer, and other rock & metal.

The Grado 225s are better on Metallica & Slayer, they make those 2 bands sound raw, evil and aggressive in a way that the Senns can't match. With the rest of my rock it's a toss-up, but I think there's a general pattern that goes something like this. If the recording has a good spacious mix (Tea Party, Pink Floyd) the edge goes to the Senns, close-miked or grungy recordings without much of a soundstage (Ramones, Offspring) are better on the Grados.

The Senns don't have the raw feeling of energy and drive which the Grados do, but they can still kick ass on rock.

 

[NightWoundsTime]

Quote:

Originally posted by aerius If the recording has a good spacious mix (Tea Party, Pink Floyd) the edge goes to the Senns, close-miked or grungy recordings without much of a soundstage (Ramones, Offspring) are better on the Grados.

YES. Agreed that any spacious sounding music is AWESOME on the Senns. The latter though is where I'm not happy. Listening to Metallica right now (And Justice) and it's just so weak. The guitars don't "punch" like I feel they should. It's not so much about bass I guess (Metallica's notorious for burying the bass anyway). But to really get into the music I have to crank if far above what I feel is healthy. And then it's too bright (EQ'ing may help).


Quote:

When I bought my HD600s I originally thought that I would use it for gaming as well. I found that (even with an amp) the sound simply sounded thin on my computer. I never bothered trying to find a solution though. So it could be that your HD600s aren't being driven properly.

Well I was told the Terratec card is pretty decent. Also note that I'm using a PPA with this setup. I've considered picking up a budget cd player (that Toshiba that everyone keeps talking about) to compare with the sound card. Got a Kenwood CDP here that I could also try (Although I'd be VERY disappointed if the terratec didn't outdo it.)

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally posted by NightWoundsTime As I said in my first post I'm more than happy with Jazz/Classical/Acoustic music in these cans. I'm ecstatic you could say. But when the transients start coming and large walls of noise are present I'm simply not happy.

Are you sure it's that? The reason I ask is that for me, the problem with Senns and rock consists of:

(A) Lack of up-frontness -- this is the biggest issue. Rock just doesn't have much emotional impact toward the back of the concert hall. Best listened to with one's head inside the speakers up on stage

.

(B) Lack of (enough) bass slam and impact

(C) A certain "gentle" character better suited to mellower forms of music -- this one is difficult to pin down. My recent upgrade to the Oehlbach replacement cable has alleviated this a great deal (and I sort of miss it, to tell ya the truth).

Senns are widely and well regarded as classical cans, and certainly the "wall of sound" you describe occurs both regularly and often in classical music... as do plenty of transients.

Quote:

Originally posted by aerius The Senns don't have the raw feeling of energy and drive which the Grados do, but they can still kick ass on rock.

For me, this is the primary reason why I don't like Senns with rock nearly as well as even a pair of Sony V6. I need that raw energy and drive to get emotionally involved in guitar-oriented hard rock (e.g. early Rush). I listen to very little heavy rock these days anymore, so it's not a big deal.

 

[stryker]

Quote:

Originally posted by aerius The Senns don't have the raw feeling of energy and drive which the Grados do, but they can still kick ass on rock.

I agree. I had the 225s for a short time but couldn't justify keeping them for a few songs/bands when my 600s sounded just fine and imaged better. That's coming from someone who got into headphones via the SR-60 and the Grado "house sound." The "rock headphones" moniker didn't seem all that obvious after a side by side comparison. Perhaps that label was coined by someone trying to sell more Grados?

 

[Leporello]

Quote:

Originally posted by Howie While nobody would consider the HD600s to be a bass-heavy headphone, bass is highly subjective.

Indeed it is subjective.

To my ears the major shortcoming of the Hd600s is that they are bass-heavy.

I worked around this by purchasing an amp with (nearly) 0 ohm output impedance. It did help but not quite enough.

I finally purchased a pair of Stax. They are very good, but while doing A/B -comparisons I also realized who good the HD600s actually are.

I suggest the original poster give time to his HD600s.


Regards,


L-

 

[PodMan]

well after listening to the SR60s for a couple of weeks, I am now familiarized with their sound and am moving back to the HD600. I was initially amazed by the impact and upfrontness of the grados and actually listened to them more than the HD600s. but after a while, I am preferring the senn sound again. Same thing before, I sold an HD580 and bought an A900 and liked it better initially because of its impact but eventually I started missing the senn sound and went back to the HD600 again. I also tried an ER4P during that time but did not keep those either.

this board makes you keep wanting to buy new phones but I suggest you hang onto the HD600s because what I found is that while other cans may amaze you initially, I have always ended up returning to the HD580/HD600 sound. may be just me, though

 

[zeplin]

i have to agree that the 600's and the phones before them are not "the best" at playing rock music. the 650 however, clearly changes all that. the 650's are the biggest move towards a more upfront sound than any other senn phone...with the exclusion of the new 5x5 series according to some (i haven't heard them). even more, sennheisers decision to move the 650's sound closer to the grado/cd3000 type sound while still maintaining that classic lush/warm senn sound is the best decision any headphone manufacturer has made in recent times. in my mind, it simply makes for the perfect headphone in its price range. someone said earlier about the 600's being slow on certain recordings. all i have to say about that is something in the chain wasn't right. along with the ety's, the 600 also has wonderful separation and accuracy...far from ever even being considered slow. the 650's, OTOH, take the quickness to a whole new level...and this does a great deal to help the senns with rock music. just like with my ety's, i can pick and follow any instrument throughout the whole song, even if there are 20 instruments in that song. i think my perceiving my 650's as magic also has a lot to do with my particular system synergy. pairing them with a warm/lush-bass heavy cd player (rega planet 2000), and a dynamic fast ss amp (HR cosmic) makes for a perfect marraige. add to that the mobius cable, and you have yourself an ideal system synergy...something that i as well as others search a long time for.

what's my point in all this....
the 650's do a good job of changing the previous perceptions that always went along with the "laid back" senn sound. they rock with rock music and chill with slower music. in fact, compared to the cd3000's and grado225, i actually like the 650's better with rock music (which i didn't before the 650s')...everything is simply more accurate and at the same time exciting! i think the 650's, in my setup at least, shine their very best with electronica and are the complete opposite of slow. they are a perfect in between of my two previous phones...the ATW1000 and HD600, both from the opposite ends of the spectrum. so if you think all senn phones can't really do that well with rock, think again.

on a related side note...
i've been recently reading about how many people think the sony sound is generally more colored and "exciting," while the senn sound is more "realistic" and less colored. with that, people throw around generalizations like senn=boring, and sony=exciting. all that makes zero sense to me. i have a hard time understanding how senn can have such a perceived warm and lush sound throughout their line-up, yet still be considered un-colored by some. it almost seems like a contradiction to me. all headphones are colored in a way that most pleases our own preferences and opinions about how we think our music should sound. there is no uncolored headphone.

 

[tom hankins]

Quote:

Originally posted by Beagle That's a bit of a snobbish comment. Regardless of setup and cost, Sennheisers simply are not fast enough to accurately reproduce the stop/start contrasts of music and microdynamics. It's like expecting a Cadillac to corner at high speeds as well as a Ferrari. Or like saying you have to feed George Bush pricy food in order for him to sound intelligent. Ain't gonna happen.

This comment about the Senns. "not being fast enough to accurately reproduce the start/stop contrasts of music and microdynamics". IS NOT TRUE. If you are in my neck of the woods come by and hear my system and you can see you don't have a clue as to what your talking about. The fact is...as you feed the Senns. better they do get better, way better.