[Greggo]

I am glad Mr. Speakers is just running straight at this and looking to give estats a real chance to develop at least a little bit beyond the current niche. The connector issue seems pretty obvious to me, I guess some folks are just into Stax and others like me could care less. It's all cool, no need to go negative on Mr. Speakers as they have earned a seat at the table and have a good rep in this community.
 
Will be very interesting to eventually see who Dan is talking to and what amp models are announced/released later this year or early next year and how that times or aligns with the production release of the Ether E (?) - By the way Dan, do you guys have an official name for this model? As you get closer I hope we see a new thread in the High-end Audio forum with the new name and full specs and hopefully a bunch of feedback and healthy discussion.

 

[Hansotek]

One part of our plan is to put forward a new connector that's more modern, stylish, and actually obtainable than the proprietary and legacy Stax connector. Today, anyone trying to make a product has to make their own compatible plugs and jacks, which is silly, time consuming and expensive. We will do adapters to be compatible with other 580V gear that's out there, but the new connector should be a step up and will be available to all vendors. Our amp partners are on board with this to.

Care to tell us what is wrong with what is absolutely the gold standard legacy plug for electrostatic headphones? How is breaking compatibility with nearly every other electrostatic product ever produced going to help anyone besides your company who I suspect will be the supplier of the new plug?

The Stax connection is proprietary. The problem with using it is Stax will hit you with a big fat lawsuit.

 

[VandyMan]

My guess is that the Ether E requires a higher bias voltage and/or amp gain, hence developping specific connector for the new amps to come for it (e.g. To avoid anyone trying to A/B from same amp to fry his omega phones).

Otherwise, introducing a new plug makes no sense to me. It's not like the ether is designed for portable use so the stax plug is just fine in size for home amp imo.

Arnaud

Not correct. It is being demoed currently with an unmodified BHSE. 

 

[VandyMan]

Originally Posted by Arthrumus /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Either that or it's an attempt at a cash grab. Or maybe it's just good old fashioned "can't leave well enough alone."
 

 
The post clearly said that they intend to provide adapters. Accusing Mr. Speaker, of all companies, of a "cash grab" is total BS and really wrong considering how much attention they give to the opinions of this community.

 

[Arthrumus]

The Stax connection is proprietary. The problem with using it is Stax will hit you with a big fat lawsuit.

 
How is the Stax connector any more proprietary than a new connector that nobody else uses and will only be interoperable with other gear through the use of adapters?
 
Amphenol makes Stax compatible plugs and sockets. The specs for it are widely available and so simple that anyone could set up a small scale production run of their own. The Stax plug is featured on every third party electrostatic amp ever because it's the standard. Kingsound uses it, Koss used it on their old electrostatic headphones, countless electrets used it. It has excellent electrical properties for the application it's being used for. Just like anything new, it was only proprietary at the time that it was introduced and it has since become the standard. 
 
Has Stax ever sued anyone? I've never heard of it, and given that the connector design is over 50 years old, I'm not sure what basis they would have for a lawsuit anyway.
 
Also how exactly is Mrspeakers going to offer Stax adapters without still having to "make their own compatible plugs and jacks, which is silly, time consuming and expensive." If they are going to source or set up production of Stax plugs and sockets for use with their adapters, wouldn't it be more useful to the industry to just use those new Stax plugs and supply them to other amp and headphone makers so they don't have to make their own?

Quote:

   
The post clearly said that they intend to provide adapters. Accusing Mr. Speaker, of all companies, of a "cash grab" is total BS and really wrong considering how much attention they give to the opinions of this community.

Exactly my point. THEY intend to provide adapters. How is that hard to grasp? You may love this company unconditionally, but I don't and this all smells like a ploy to sell some extra stuff. How many of the Ether E buyers won't already have an electrostatic amp? I'm guessing not many.

 

[Stillhart]

  Exactly my point. THEY intend to provide adapters. How is that hard to grasp? You may love this company unconditionally, but I don't and this all smells like a ploy to sell some extra stuff. How many of the Ether E buyers won't already have an electrostatic amp? I'm guessing not many.

 
On what do you base that wild guess?  
 
Here's my theory:  a lot of Ether and Ether C owners, not to mention people who are put off by the Stax elitism around here (*ahem*), are going to take interest in stats for the first time.  If the final headphone is as good as what I heard at THE Show (and I can only assume it'll get better before release), and some big name amp manufacturers put out some reasonably priced alternatives, it will bring an influx of people who wouldn't normally consider a stat.
 
Of course my guess isn't any more likely than yours, but at least I put some thought into it instead of just bashing MrSpeakers.  Fact is, you're asking a question about the connectors that's been answered directly by Dan and refusing to acknowledge the answer.  They're hard to get, making them expensive and time consuming to work with.  Both of those things add to cost, which generally translates to increased final pricing.  It's quite possible that this "cash grab" will actually make Dan's headphones (and the new amps) CHEAPER than they would have been with Stax connectors.
 
Again, I'm not saying this is a fact, just that it's a possibility.  What smalls like a ploy to you does not to everyone.  If you don't like it, don't buy it.  But you'll be missing out because it sounds divine.  

 

 

[Greggo]

I look forward to the improvements, not interested in a Stax dominated market and small manufacturers spending money for small runs of stuff that should be an open or at least easily afforded standard that looks and works better.
 
If you are looking for validation that Stax has gotten it all right from the beginning, you are in the wrong thread.

 

[mrspeakers]

Exactly my point. THEY intend to provide adapters. How is that hard to grasp? You may love this company unconditionally, but I don't and this all smells like a ploy to sell some extra stuff. How many of the Ether E buyers won't already have an electrostatic amp? I'm guessing not many.

Yes, that's us, running around creating "ploys" to separate people from their money. I have to say that is the among the silliest things I've ever heard, business-wise. You think we are going to bother making a "ploy" to extract a few dollars from customers buying an expensive headphone? If we had to resort to that to turn a profit we'd be pretty pathetic as a headphone company.

It's not a "ploy" to make an adaptor for existing owners of lovely gear like BH, LL, etc. Stax makes beautiful, well regarded gear and we intend to offer an alternative in voicing and design. Some may prefer us, some Stax, and if we're lucky, people will enjoy having more selection and now have several different takes on voicing, as they can do with planers and dynamics. Yup, THAT is our "ploy."

Our other "ploy" is to encourage a greater selection of amps and even other headphones from other vendors by sparking some new energy in a market that hasn't grownlike the overall headphone market has, but one that has terrific technology that can create great sound people will enjoy. For this reason, we kept the "Gold Standard" of the Pro voltage, so the only compatibility issue IS an adaptor.

I don't know if it's true but I was told that back in the day the Stax plug was some kind of battery connector, but it's not on the market anymore. If it is and we missed the supplier by all means help us out with a source, as making a new connector is not something we WANT to spend time on, it's something that we are doing to eliminate the aforementioned barrier to entry for new products and to create more choices in source and headphone for consumers. So please, if you have an actual source for the parts, share the link, we'd be happy to go with the plug if there's actually a quality part on the market we don't want to waste our time or anyone else's...

 

[Arthrumus]

Yes, that's us, running around creating "ploys" to separate people from their money. I have to say that is the among the silliest things I've ever heard, business-wise. You think we are going to bother making a "ploy" to extract a few dollars from customers buying an expensive headphone? If we had to resort to that to turn a profit we'd be pretty pathetic as a headphone company.

It's not a "ploy" to make an adaptor for existing owners of lovely gear like BH, LL, etc. Stax makes beautiful, well regarded gear and we intend to offer an alternative in voicing and design. Some may prefer us, some Stax, and if we're lucky, people will enjoy having more selection and now have several different takes on voicing, as they can do with planers and dynamics. Yup, THAT is our "ploy."

Our other "ploy" is to encourage a greater selection of amps and even other headphones from other vendors by sparking some new energy in a market that hasn't grownlike the overall headphone market has, but one that has terrific technology that can create great sound people will enjoy. For this reason, we kept the "Gold Standard" of the Pro voltage, so the only compatibility issue IS an adaptor.

I don't know if it's true but I was told that back in the day the Stax plug was some kind of battery connector, but it's not on the market anymore. If it is and we missed the supplier by all means help us out with a source, as making a new connector is not something we WANT to spend time on, it's something that we are doing to eliminate the aforementioned barrier to entry for new products and to create more choices in source and headphone for consumers. So please, if you have an actual source for the parts, share the link, we'd be happy to go with the plug if there's actually a quality part on the market we don't want to waste our time or anyone else's...

Will this new connector be an existing design that is already mass produced for another application? Will the electrical properties (capacitance, high voltage shielding, safety) be as good or better than the Stax plug? 

 

[mrspeakers]

  Will this new connector be an existing design that is already mass produced for another application? Will the electrical properties (capacitance, high voltage shielding, safety) be as good or better than the Stax plug? 

We have looked for current designs, but the voltage rating makes compatible parts rare, and the need to supported repeated insertions makes it extra hard.  So we're working with a plug maker to do one from the ground up that they will make readily available and we can ensure is safe.  I think the design ideas we're looking at actually have some safety advantages, as we're going to avoid exposed pins during insertion/removal.  

 

[arnaud]

Thanks Dan for the clarification. At least, if you provide adapters to stax standard, it's not the end of the world. But still, it would sound much simpler to me to just get advice from someone who can help you source the parts. After all, all the 3rd party amp makers are manufacturing their stax plug and none seem to have implied this was a third of their running cost.

Part of your market may very well be planar and dynamic user who have not tried stats for some reason or disliked the voicing of all mainstream stat phones.

But there's no denying that all the existing users of stax phones (and a rather large variety of stax and 3rd party otherwise diy amps) will want to check out the ether e, especially since you are doing your best to price them reasonably. For this part of the potential market, coming up with a new plug is disappointing, especially there's no rational like higher bias voltage.

Cheers,
Arnaud

 

[Arthrumus]

Thanks Dan for the clarification. At least, if you provide adapters to stax standard, it's not the end of the world. But still, it would sound much simpler to me to just get advice from someone who can help you source the parts. After all, all the 3rd party amp makers are manufacturing their stax plug and none seem to have implied this was a third of their running cost.

Part of your market may very well be planar and dynamic user who have not tried stats for some reason or disliked the voicing of all mainstream stat phones.

But there's no denying that all the existing users of stax phones (and a rather large variety of stax and 3rd party otherwise diy amps) will want to check out the ether e, especially since you are doing your best to price them reasonably. For this part of the potential market, coming up with a new plug is disappointing, especially there's no rational like higher bias voltage.

Cheers,
Arnaud

My sentiments exactly. If a custom plug needs to be designed and manufactured from the ground up it seems that the most practical and helpful route would be to gear up production of a Stax compatible plug and socket, given it's ubiquity and excellent electrical performance for this application.
 
 

 
We have looked for current designs, but the voltage rating makes compatible parts rare, and the need to supported repeated insertions makes it extra hard.  So we're working with a plug maker to do one from the ground up that they will make readily available and we can ensure is safe.  I think the design ideas we're looking at actually have some safety advantages, as we're going to avoid exposed pins during insertion/removal.  

Just so you know I'm not trying to defame you or your company. I've never used any of your products nor have I had any dealings with you positive or negative. I have heard good things about you and your product. As a rule though, I don't automatically give the benefit of the doubt to any company no matter how large or small. The primary goal of any business is to turn a profit and when proprietary interfaces or ecosystems are brought into a market that already has ubiquitous standards and interoperability I'm always skeptical. The Stax plug design is by no means exclusive to Stax, and I think you'd be hard pressed to really call it proprietary given how many manufacturers have used it and continue to use it for their electrostatic products. The only problem seems to be supply which your plan would solve whether you produced something custom or Stax compatible. 
 
Depending on the quality and performance of your electrostatic headphones I may be interested in acquiring a pair down the road. With that in mind having another standard that needs to be adapted to work with my existing gear is an annoying prospect. It was annoying and unnecessary when Koss did it with the ESP-950 (not to mention Sennheiser's shenanigans) and it will be no less annoying on your products. 

 

[Stillhart]

Thanks Dan for the clarification. At least, if you provide adapters to stax standard, it's not the end of the world. But still, it would sound much simpler to me to just get advice from someone who can help you source the parts. After all, all the 3rd party amp makers are manufacturing their stax plug and none seem to have implied this was a third of their running cost.

 
Um, what makes you think he didn't seek advice on how to source the parts?  And how do you know 3rd party amp makers aren't complaining about the cost?  Do lots of them get on here and complain about their supply chain woes?  
 
Just because Dan is on here sharing some of his thoughts, doesn't mean you know the whole story.  You're making some staggering assumptions...
 

  My sentiments exactly. If a custom plug needs to be designed and manufactured from the ground up it seems that the most practical and helpful route would be to gear up production of a Stax compatible plug and socket, given it's ubiquity and excellent electrical performance for this application.

 
To you it's practical and helpful as you own a Stax amp.  To Dan and to those who don't own any Stax gear, it may not be.  I for one am happy to hear that there are going to be safety improvements.  I'd expect there will be other tangible improvements as well or it would hardly seem worth the effort.  
 
Again, your perspective as a Stax owner is perfectly valid.  But your criticisms based on your perspective seem short-sighted to this non-Stax owner.

 

[Greggo]

   
Um, what makes you think he didn't seek advice on how to source the parts?  And how do you know 3rd party amp makers aren't complaining about the cost?  Do lots of them get on here and complain about their supply chain woes?  
 
Just because Dan is on here sharing some of his thoughts, doesn't mean you know the whole story.  You're making some staggering assumptions...
 
 
To you it's practical and helpful as you own a Stax amp.  To Dan and to those who don't own any Stax gear, it may not be.  I for one am happy to hear that there are going to be safety improvements.  I'd expect there will be other tangible improvements as well or it would hardly seem worth the effort.  
 
Again, your perspective as a Stax owner is perfectly valid.  But your criticisms based on your perspective seem short-sighted to this non-Stax owner.

 
"short-sighted" is giving some folks too much credit here, the comments have been rude and typical of how many around here treat manufacturers, suppliers and retailers... this is one of the few communities where I benefit from a bunch of significant interaction between companies and consumers... hate to see it washed away by folks who think every idea or post is just an invitation for open season BS. I for one would be very happy to put as much distance between a new gen of estat companies and the Stax legacy/crowd as possible. I have complete confidence that there are plenty of players in this industry talented enough to move forward without them. Notice I just voice this opinion here, and don't go crapping all over the Stax threads. I read through most of them, didn't like what I saw and know it is not for me. Some folks dig it, that's cool, live and let live.
 
I will stand down and give the critics here the last word... I just want to leave room in this thread for its intended purpose and room for Dan to give us updates once in a while as to how things are coming along. Looking forward to more feedback as more folks get a chance to try out the Ether E.

 

[arnaud]

Stillhart, you're regurgitating whatever you've been fed, you don't even own stax gear, call stat owner "elitists", yet seem sp confident in ascerting there's a good reason for changing decades old plug standard. Seriously...