[gamefreak054]

Tracking says that I am supposed to get both my Alpha Dogs and my Project Ember Amp tomorrow. I am so excited!!! I finally get to hear the Alpha Dogs, and hear them from a decent amp as well (not that my DX100 was bad, just probably not as good).

 

[miceblue]

So I just got back from a mini-meet and the Bakoon Audio HPA-21 amplifier was there.

Compared to what I'm used to with the Objective 2, the HPA-21 had more impact with the bass and just overall sounded more lively and dynamic. Instrument separation was a little better with the HPA-21 too. On the other hand, I don't know if it's the Objective 2's characteristic spacious sound or something, but the HPA-21 seemed more aggressive to my ears with a more in-your-face presentation of things. For a general overall sound signature, I like the more laid-back and relaxing presentation of the O2, but the HPA-21 definitely brought out some of the details that weren't as apparent from the O2.

Other members at the meet were generally impressed with how the Alpha Dog sounded with the O2 as well. The overall verdict was that the Alpha Dog is a pretty darn good headphone at $600 based on the two amps above. Daft Punk's Random Access Memories album is a great pairing with the Alpha Dog. Those rippling bass notes in Motherboard are awesome!

*These observations were with the voltage-labeled output instead of the other one labeled current and the Objective DAC were used in both setups.
it is to my understanding that planar magnetic headphones generally benefit from more voltage and not current, correct?


Well then.
http://www.headfonia.com/bakoon-hpa-21-the-current-amp/

Not only is the voltage output very loud, it also sounds very aggressive.

I guess it's worth mentioning that the HPA-21 had a ton of space left on the volume knob; I rarely went past even the 8:30 position. On the other hand, people at the meet were listening to the Alpha Dog on the Objective 2 at 2.5x gain with the volume potentiometer at the 12:00 position (I still stuck with ~9:00 at 1.0x gain). o.0

I did briefly try the current output jack with the Alpha Dog and to me it lost some of the micro-details as well as having less impact with the bass.

 

[C.C.S.]

*These observations were with the voltage-labeled output instead of the other one labeled current and the Objective DAC were used in both setups.
it is to my understanding that planar magnetic headphones generally benefit from more voltage and not current, correct?

 
Other way around. Planar magnetic headphones, having relatively low and flat impedance, are preferably current driven, by my understanding. Something like the HD6x0 is more of a voltage driven headphone.

 

[miceblue]

*These observations were with the voltage-labeled output instead of the other one labeled current and the Objective DAC were used in both setups.

it is to my understanding that planar magnetic headphones generally benefit from more voltage and not current, correct?

Other way around. Planar magnetic headphones, having relatively low and flat impedance, are preferably current driven, by my understanding. Something like the HD6x0 is more of a voltage driven headphone.

Bah, dang it! I listened to the wrong output jack then. >.>

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/how-planar-magnetic-headphones-work-page-2

Easy on the Amplifier --- Unlike the coiled winding of a dynamic driver, which creates inductive peaks in the impedance characteristics of the headphone, current planar magnetic headphones use a serpentine pattern for their voice coil, which makes their impedance characteristics almost purely resistive. Though they sometimes need quite a bit of voltage to drive them, they are not difficult loads to drive at all.

 

[C.C.S.]

Bah, dang it! I listened to the wrong output jack then. >.>

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/how-planar-magnetic-headphones-work-page-2

 
Huh. I never read that article on IF. That's very interesting because most people talk more about current than voltage when it comes to planar magnetic headphones. Maybe somebody else can chime in on the subject, because I was under the impression that planars were more about current drive than voltage drive.

 

[x838nwy]

Huh. I never read that article on IF. That's very interesting because most people talk more about current than voltage when it comes to planar magnetic headphones. Maybe somebody else can chime in on the subject, because I was under the impression that planars were more about current drive than voltage drive.

You should have tried current drive, unfortunately. Afik, that's the umm forté as far as the bakoon is concerned.

When i had a play with it with an lcd-x, the current drive sounded a little more open and a bit faster. I'm not/was not familiar with either enough to say that for certain, and i only tried the voltage out very briefly. However, i did notice a difference and preferred the current out. Theory also agrees with my observation (that one should be more suitable, not necessary that there should be the differences i heard) which is a rare comfort.

P.s. With my hd800 i only used the voltage out, which sounded fine. The ss is a little small (relatively speaking for hd800's) but did not see what current out could have done.

 

[miceblue]

Huh. I never read that article on IF. That's very interesting because most people talk more about current than voltage when it comes to planar magnetic headphones. Maybe somebody else can chime in on the subject, because I was under the impression that planars were more about current drive than voltage drive.

You should have tried current drive, unfortunately. Afik, that's the umm forté as far as the bakoon is concerned.

When i had a play with it with an lcd-x, the current drive sounded a little more open and a bit faster. I'm not/was not familiar with either enough to say that for certain, and i only tried the voltage out very briefly. However, i did notice a difference and preferred the current out. Theory also agrees with my observation (that one should be more suitable, not necessary that there should be the differences i heard) which is a rare comfort.

P.s. With my hd800 i only used the voltage out, which sounded fine. The ss is a little small (relatively speaking for hd800's) but did not see what current out could have done.

I did try the current output "mode," but not as extensively as the voltage output "mode."
Yes it did sound more expansive and softer than the voltage output "mode," making it closer to the sound from the O2. There was also the gain switch for the current mode, which seemed to make it louder as expected, but the voltage output "mode" wasn't affected by the switch from what I heard.

 

[Mullet]

I guess it's worth mentioning that the HPA-21 had a ton of space left on the volume knob; I rarely went past even the 8:30 position. On the other hand, people at the meet were listening to the Alpha Dog on the Objective 2 at 2.5x gain with the volume potentiometer at the 12:00 position (I still stuck with ~9:00 at 1.0x gain). o.0

Typically, you want the volume knob almost all the way up at the loudest listening level possible. My O2 is usually at 3 o'clock with my planars. Any louder than 3 and it's too loud for me. If you're at 8 or 9 the amp has too much gain. I also listen to my music much louder than others. I find that I have to turn it up a bit at meets.

 

[miceblue]

I guess it's worth mentioning that the HPA-21 had a ton of space left on the volume knob; I rarely went past even the 8:30 position. On the other hand, people at the meet were listening to the Alpha Dog on the Objective 2 at 2.5x gain with the volume potentiometer at the 12:00 position (I still stuck with ~9:00 at 1.0x gain). o.0

Typically, you want the volume knob almost all the way up at the loudest listening level possible. My O2 is usually at 3 o'clock with my planars. Any louder than 3 and it's too loud for me. If you're at 8 or 9 the amp has too much gain. I also listen to my music much louder than others. I find that I have to turn it up a bit at meets.

I'm confused. I have too much gain at 1.0x unity gain? I think any sound at the 3:00 position would blow my eardrums out. >.>

Even with the K 701 at 3:00 with 1.0x gain, it's waaay too loud for my listening preferences. ~70 dB SPL with classical and ~88 dB with T-Swift using an iPhone decibel meter app. They make for some pretty good speakers at this volume level though.

 

[roguegeek]

I'm looking to get a reference grade fully closed can in the next couple of month and had my heart set on the Denon D7000. Can anyone who has heard the Alpha Dog and D7000 comment on the differences?

 

[kugino]

  I'm looking to get a reference grade fully closed can in the next couple of month and had my heart set on the Denon D7000. Can anyone who has heard the Alpha Dog and D7000 comment on the differences?

have not heard the ADs...but own the d7000 and have a pair of ADs on order. from what i've read, the ADs don't have the bass that the d7000s do...but then again, few headphones have the d7000 bass. that's what i've read so far...others with more experience can chime in. i'm keen to know what people think, too.

 

[Homage]

Don't forget to consider Fostex TH600 as well as Denon D7000 model, much lighter on the head than the Denon phones.

I like both the wood finish of the Denon's and the matt black stealth looking Fostex TH600 phones (so much so I recently purchased the Fostex model).

 

[roguegeek]

I think I'm looking for just one closed can for the collection and so I want it to be an impressive one. I heard the TH900 as opposed to the TH600 was much closer to the D7000. Problem is the price. That's why the D7000 and Alpha Dog are what I'm looking at for now.

 

[Oregonian]

I'm looking to get a reference grade fully closed can in the next couple of month and had my heart set on the Denon D7000. Can anyone who has heard the Alpha Dog and D7000 comment on the differences?

Owned the D7000 for 8 months, auditioned the Alpha twice now for around 7 days.

Alpha isolates better. D7000 can be heard by someone sitting close.
D7000 has epic dynamic bass that is my favorite sound sig.
TH600 and a Lawton modded D7000 to me are clones.
Comfort is almost a push, with my D7000 having a HD650 headband mod and Lawton angle pads it feels as good as Alpha Dog but lighter.
Mids may be a tad better on Alpha.

I prefer the Denon.

Most people who try a D7000 tend to keep them.

 

[Mullet]

I'm confused. I have too much gain at 1.0x unity gain? I think any sound at the 3:00 position would blow my eardrums out. >.>

Even with the K 701 at 3:00 with 1.0x gain, it's waaay too loud for my listening preferences. ~70 dB SPL with classical and ~88 dB with T-Swift using an iPhone decibel meter app. They make for some pretty good speakers at this volume level though.

 
Yup that's what I've been told numerous times. *Ideally* you want your pot fully open. The pot is effectively a resistor. The more resistance the pot has the more noise it can introduce into the signal. A good pot will have low noise, but like I said ideally you want the pot as open as possible. I've had amps that have volumes pots that didn't get much higher than 9 o'clock even with HD650s. I have an amp (Cavalli Tube Hybrid) that doesn't get much higher than 12 or 1. And like I said... I'm probably going deaf. I tend to listen to everything louder. That said the gain is too high. But the amp would have to be redesigned to compensate for this.
 
There's obviously more to this than the gain of the amp. A source (DAC) with a high p-2-p voltage say more than 2 Vrms isn't going to need much more than a gain of 2 for most headphones. If it's higher then unity gain might produce bleedingly loud levels.  There are plenty of sources that higher than 2Vrms output. I'm not sure if that's your case or not. I'm just going from what I've been told on a few DIY audio based forums.
 
So diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks I guess.