MQA Deep Dive - I published tracks on Tidal to test MQA

[Audiophiliac]

Anyone who tells you anything could sound better than what you're listening on right now is selling snake oil, and you should join an audio forum, to tell everyone it can't be true.

 

[Currawong]

Someone did measure both ICs and speaker cables recently. Not just regular measurements, but in the time domain, with what I thought were interesting results.

More on topic for the thread though, I was going through some old files, and found the old image of the Mytek MQA filters. It could be my imagination, but the impulse responses look rather like that of some of the newer filters I've seen baked into the latest DAC chips.

 

[Audiophiliac]

I have a color calibrator for my monitor, it measures the colors for accuracy. I bought a new DP cable for it, and my device said my colors had all shifted. After re-calibration, I was back to almost spot-on, with a brighter seeming picture. Putting a fat Chinese power cable with at least cheap shielding for $60 from Amazon also read my colors as having gone out, but after re-calibration, my picture was deeper and richer. Video games looked way better, but so did everything. Unfortunately, movies will always look better than video games, since even CGI movies can afford to make a huge rendering farm take 1 hour to render each frame, instead of in real time, if they want. But that's ok, it's not a problem that stuff that's not the video games I got a pro monitor for look pro also. Anyways, my monitor cable upgrades both looked better right away, while my hardware device confirmed a color change. That's a power cable and a digital only signal cable measuring a difference. The power cable on my PC upgrade improved both my audio and video depth and richness in the first place, even while both are digitally output after that.

 

[gregorio]

Someone did measure both ICs and speaker cables recently. Not just regular measurements, but in the time domain, with what I thought were interesting results.

Interesting results providing you’re not interested in music recordings, which never contain signals anywhere even vaguely near the signals they tested!

More on topic for the thread though, I was going through some old files, and found the old image of the Mytek MQA filters. It could be my imagination, but the impulse responses look rather like that of some of the newer filters I've seen baked into the latest DAC chips.

Weren’t the MQA filters a pretty standard apodizing filter that’s been around for 20 years or more?

G

 

[GoldenSound]

Someone did measure both ICs and speaker cables recently. Not just regular measurements, but in the time domain, with what I thought were interesting results.

More on topic for the thread though, I was going through some old files, and found the old image of the Mytek MQA filters. It could be my imagination, but the impulse responses look rather like that of some of the newer filters I've seen baked into the latest DAC chips.

The thing here is that the measurements aren't showing anything that wasn't already known. We know that cables behave differently when you're way up into the many Mhz range or Ghz range. Hence why for RF design stuff there are specified characteristic impedance specs but they're not needed for lower bandwidth stuff. High speed analog design is a whole field in and of itself with unique challenges and a hell of a lot of research behind it.

They showed that the cables behaved differently with a pulse that requires a bandwidth of 500Mhz, which yeah, it'd be shocking if they didn't behave differently because none of them are high speed cables or have controlled characteristic impedance. But you're never going to be putting anything at 500Mhz through your analog cable. And these behaviours can also just be modeled and predicted using the LCR values.

The issue is that they've measured and shown something (which was already known, as said, this is the entire reason for high speed connections having specific characteristic impedances in the first place) and are then attributing it to audible effects even though:

- Even if you're playing hi-res content, the highest frequency you'd be feeding would be less than 1/5000th of what was tested here and would not experience any differences due to what was shown, as the electrical reflections are not behaving in the same way

- In the video they report various audible differences, but have not actually done any testing to show that these can be discerned in reality. Their network audio switch 'blind test' video was similarly just a blind listening session with no validation or real 'test' at all

 

[sygnus21]

I have a color calibrator for my monitor, it measures the colors for accuracy. I bought a new DP cable for it, and my device said my colors had all shifted. After re-calibration, I was back to almost spot-on, with a brighter seeming picture. Putting a fat Chinese power cable with at least cheap shielding for $60 from Amazon also read my colors as having gone out, but after re-calibration, my picture was deeper and richer. Video games looked way better, but so did everything. Unfortunately, movies will always look better than video games, since even CGI movies can afford to make a huge rendering farm take 1 hour to render each frame, instead of in real time, if they want. But that's ok, it's not a problem that stuff that's not the video games I got a pro monitor for look pro also. Anyways, my monitor cable upgrades both looked better right away, while my hardware device confirmed a color change. That's a power cable and a digital only signal cable measuring a difference. The power cable on my PC upgrade improved both my audio and video depth and richness in the first place, even while both are digitally output after that.

Do you recommend a $500 dollar power cable for a PC? Wouldn't you also need one for the monitor cable? What about the cable going from monitor to graphics card? Audiophile grade? What cables?

 

[Audiophiliac]

If you are a serious audiophile with money to spend also, and have chosen using the noisy jack of all trades, a pc, your pc should either be plugged into a really nice power distributor, or straight into the wall, first. Yeah, that nice power distributor will already need it's own best cable of all on it, and maybe a long one, too. Hmm, burn that your power distributor will want your best cable, automatically. After that, so far I have only upgraded from the fairly fat for a stock power cable, to a really fat $60 Chinese cable with cheap basic shielding included, from Amazon. It made my soundstage bigger and seemed like I could hear more, somehow, but I was simultaneously also impressed that the better cable deepened my picture, while also making it seem more colorful and brighter.
I have hunted for any sign of a videophile Display Port cable, but am unable to find any. I did find the best seeming one on Amazon, it was only $20, and I thought it may still be better than the stock cable. It surprisingly did help, slightly more vivid and rich. My alternative, which is driving me nuts, is using a videophile grade HDMI cable instead, for which there are many options, as normal for cables. However, apparently my pro monitor won't use it's extended to Adobe RGB range unless I use a DP cable. I paid like 2.5x as much for a 4k with that feature, and it would be a waste to lose that. But, based on my experience with the $20 DP cable choice, yup, if anyone ever makes a real videophile DP cable, it will get you a better picture. If you're an HDMI connector, reviewers will already tell you of tons of cable upgrade options, and the differences they find.

 

[GoldenSound]

If you are a serious audiophile with money to spend also, and have chosen using the noisy jack of all trades, a pc, your pc should either be plugged into a really nice power distributor, or straight into the wall, first. Yeah, that nice power distributor will already need it's own best cable of all on it, and maybe a long one, too. Hmm, burn that your power distributor will want your best cable, automatically. After that, so far I have only upgraded from the fairly fat for a stock power cable, to a really fat $60 Chinese cable with cheap basic shielding included, from Amazon. It made my soundstage bigger and seemed like I could hear more, somehow, but I was simultaneously also impressed that the better cable deepened my picture, while also making it seem more colorful and brighter.
I have hunted for any sign of a videophile Display Port cable, but am unable to find any. I did find the best seeming one on Amazon, it was only $20, and I thought it may still be better than the stock cable. It surprisingly did help, slightly more vivid and rich. My alternative, which is driving me nuts, is using a videophile grade HDMI cable instead, for which there are many options, as normal for cables. However, apparently my pro monitor won't use it's extended to Adobe RGB range unless I use a DP cable. I paid like 2.5x as much for a 4k with that feature, and it would be a waste to lose that. But, based on my experience with the $20 DP cable choice, yup, if anyone ever makes a real videophile DP cable, it will get you a better picture. If you're an HDMI connector, reviewers will already tell you of tons of cable upgrade options, and the differences they find.

I actually can't tell if this is trolling at this point

 

[sygnus21]

If you are a serious audiophile with money to spend also, and have chosen using the noisy jack of all trades, a pc, your pc should either be plugged into a really nice power distributor, or straight into the wall, first. Yeah, that nice power distributor will already need it's own best cable of all on it, and maybe a long one, too. Hmm, burn that your power distributor will want your best cable, automatically. After that, so far I have only upgraded from the fairly fat for a stock power cable, to a really fat $60 Chinese cable with cheap basic shielding included, from Amazon. It made my soundstage bigger and seemed like I could hear more, somehow, but I was simultaneously also impressed that the better cable deepened my picture, while also making it seem more colorful and brighter.
I have hunted for any sign of a videophile Display Port cable, but am unable to find any. I did find the best seeming one on Amazon, it was only $20, and I thought it may still be better than the stock cable. It surprisingly did help, slightly more vivid and rich. My alternative, which is driving me nuts, is using a videophile grade HDMI cable instead, for which there are many options, as normal for cables. However, apparently my pro monitor won't use it's extended to Adobe RGB range unless I use a DP cable. I paid like 2.5x as much for a 4k with that feature, and it would be a waste to lose that. But, based on my experience with the $20 DP cable choice, yup, if anyone ever makes a real videophile DP cable, it will get you a better picture. If you're an HDMI connector, reviewers will already tell you of tons of cable upgrade options, and the differences they find.

Yeah not a believer here for a myriad of reasons here. And especially the monitor bit, particularly the calibration part.

I've only been building PCs since 1998, last build in 2019, next build later this year. And as a photographer, I've only been calibrating my monitors since 2001.

And yes, I'm also an audiophile enthusiast, who believes in quality cables there. I simply don't buy into audiophile power supply cables for a PC. That's me.

 

[Elegiac]

Honestly it seems sorta sarcastic in tone to me.

 

[Audiophiliac]

Yeah not a believer here for a myriad of reasons here. And especially the monitor bit, particularly the calibration part.

I've only been building PCs since 1998, last build in 2019, next build later this year. And as a photographer, I've only been calibrating my monitors since 2001.

And yes, I'm also an audiophile enthusiast, who believes in quality cables there. I simply don't buy into audiophile power supply cables for a PC. That's me.

Well, at least you must have seen a color shift if you change to a very different signal cable, right?
If you are not convinced your pc's power cable matters, are you currently plugged into a cheap power bar, because of that? Hopefully, so that if you are, you could try shutting down for a second, and then plugging it straight into the wall, instead, to try it out. Getting my PC off of a cheap power bar is actually embarrassingly one of the best tweaks I have ever tried. It can compete with how much better an amp is straight into the wall, also. Cheap power bars seriously restrict the flow of juice to anything plugged into them. Ha, if you don't want that to be true, you'll be so angry about it. In that case, you'd better not try it...

 

[sygnus21]

Well, at least you must have seen a color shift if you change to a very different signal cable, right?
If you are not convinced your pc's power cable matters, are you currently plugged into a cheap power bar, because of that? Hopefully, so that if you are, you could try shutting down for a second, and then plugging it straight into the wall, instead, to try it out. Getting my PC off of a cheap power bar is actually embarrassingly one of the best tweaks I have ever tried. It can compete with how much better an amp is straight into the wall, also. Cheap power bars seriously restrict the flow of juice to anything plugged into them.

One thing I'm very proud of is my PC building skills and my understanding of PCs and Windows. I've only got a Bachelors in Computer Information Systems. And again, building since 1998. With that, I would challenge you to provide your system specs to include make, model, and wattage of your PC power supply?

BTW, I have my PC plugged into a battery backup UPS, which is plugged into a wall socket. Nothing cheap there either.

Also, anyone who knows anything about calibrating a monitor also knows you don't calibrate than make system changes - You calibrate after all system changes to ensure colors are consistent across all changes. If your colors got "better" after a changing a cable, then I submit the calibration wasn't properly done in the first place. I (and many who properly calibrate monitors) would argue you're breaking the calibration if you're making changes after.

Additionally, though you claim things got better when you upped the power cable on the PC, did you forget the monitor has its own power cable???

And for clarity, a PC is not an audio device requiring audiophile grade cabling. You can (should) use audiophile cables between a sound card and external audio device or speakers, even a high-quality USB cable going to an external audio device. I'll even include using an audiophile USB card. Outside of that, nothing else matters.

And yes!!!!! If you've got a cheap power supply, you're asking for trouble, but that's more about overall system performance, not audio quality.

Ha, if you don't want that to be true, you'll be so angry about it. In that case, you'd better not try it...

My knowledge in this area tells me, I'll get far more chasing cables for my audio gear than chasing after PC power cables.

Peace

 

[Audiophiliac]

One thing I'm very proud of is my PC building skills and my understanding of PCs and Windows. I've only got a Bachelors in Computer Information Systems. And again, building since 1998. With that, I would challenge you to provide your system specs to include make, model, and wattage of your PC power supply?

Since I won't be buying one of the smaller more expensive power supplies of the type that are more suitable for audio, due to needing a gfx card that could be a power sucker, I will admit right away that my power supply is all wrong.

BTW, I have my PC plugged into a battery backup UPS, which is plugged into a wall socket. Nothing cheap there either.

That could actually be better than the wall, except actually, it would have to a real power conditioner, wouldn't it?

Also, anyone who knows anything about calibrating a monitor also knows you don't calibrate than make system changes - You calibrate after all system changes to ensure colors are consistent across all changes. If your colors got "better" after a changing a cable, then I submit the calibration wasn't properly done in the first place. I (and many who properly calibrate monitors) would argue you're breaking the calibration if you're making changes after.

Yes, I replaced the cable, and then measured my colors to see a difference on the meter. It was already brighter and seemed more colorful, but I refrained from thinking it was technically better until after recalibrating for accuracy.

Additionally, though you claim things got better when you upped the power cable on the PC, did you forget the monitor has its own power cable???

Yes, while the $60 pc power cable upgrade made me get deeper and more vivid "original intention" from my pc's digital outputs, the $60 monitor power cable upgrade was strictly limited to improving my monitor's performance at image reproduction.

And for clarity, a PC is not an audio device requiring audiophile grade cabling. You can (should) use audiophile cables between a sound card and external audio device or speakers, even a high-quality USB cable going to an external audio device. I'll even include using an audiophile USB card. Outside of that, nothing else matters.

I'm the other way around, although it sucks, everything matters, including what appliances your neighbors are running while you listen. I am reluctant to buy the Audiophile USB port card due to it's price, but I have to admit I'm not done unless I do. Until then, I tried a $50 USB 3.2 7-port expansion card, and it also already beat the usb ports built into the motherboard at sound quality. I won't fool myself that the uber USB port isn't still much better, but I already got an upgrade from mobo sound.

And yes!!!!! If you've got a cheap power supply, you're asking for trouble, but that's more about overall system performance, not audio quality.

My knowledge in this area tells me, I'll get far more chasing cables for my audio gear than chasing after PC power cables.

Peace

If you buy power cables anyhow for your audio gear, you should at some point have an extra cable you will probably consider selling. There would be no harm in plugging your pc in with that one, at that point, just to see...
You don't have to believe me, but I found out that the audio and video being digitally outputted were actually better in the first place than my cheap fat-for-stock cable was letting me find out. I got the good screen for games primarily, but Hollywood, with their super expensive sota cameras, is what really looks crazy good in 4k nowadays. But seeing that much depth and clarity from the games I already know and play after the cable upgrades is still priceless. Hmm, well, then I have to ask myself if I want to try a $200 power cable on the pc, and while I'm a believer about it, I'm working on trying to get my speakers caught up from sounding like junk compared to my headphone chain, even while both come out of 2 of the 3 outputs my sweet dac could be doing simultaneously, I have to admit that since I had already complained about spending the $50 for this speaker cable, I have actually not yet truly spent a dime on speaker cable. That's going to suck, since it should be the most expensive cable, due to the 10ft pair of pairs even before bi-amping requirements. That's ok, I'm fine with limiting my selection to whatever is going used for $200, since it will get me at least someone's cable that originally retailed for $400 for that. I don't know, maybe I should prioritize buying the Magnepan's first. No, I have to sell these for $600 first, so that those are a joke to get used also for only $700 plus probably $100 shipping. After that, if the trading dynamic speaker's quantity of air movement for a whole new league of ribbon speed is not for me, the Vandersteen's that are said to be favorites in every category including dynamic driver speed for only $1k used could be an easy trade up, instead. Hmm, maybe I'll get the speaker cable while I wait for these to sell, since my current speaker cable is still just being welfare about telling me what my amp is actually outputting...

 

[sygnus21]

If you buy power cables anyhow for your audio gear, you should at some point have an extra cable you will probably consider selling. There would be no harm in plugging your pc in with that one, at that point, just to see...

I see zero need as explained. The only "audiophile" cable I use on my PC is this Supra Excalibur USB cable to my Denafrips Iris DDC. That's to clean USB fed digital music content from PC to DACs. That's it on the PC side.

You don't have to believe me, but I found out that the audio and video being digitally outputted were actually better in the first place than my cheap fat-for-stock cable was letting me find out. I got the good screen for games primarily, but Hollywood, with their super expensive sota cameras, is what really looks crazy good in 4k nowadays.

For calibration purposes, I set my monitor brightness of 115 cd/m2, gamma 2.2, and color temperature of 6500K for my photo work. For gaming, I may up the brightness level and gamma setting in the game itself via the game's graphic settings. This leaves the monitor itself set to the parameters I chose when I calibrated it to.

But seeing that much depth and clarity from the games I already know and play after the cable upgrades is still priceless.

I'm also a gamer (currently playing (again) Cyberpunk 2077). And as a gamer, I'm aware you can change your brightness and vividness via the game's graphics settings. This is far better than wholesaling the brightness levels of the monitor itself, which allows it to stay consistent in displaying content across a myriad of apps.

Anyway, we'll agree to disagree agreeably, as I move on from this.

Thanks

 

[gregorio]

If you are a serious audiophile with money to spend also, and have chosen using the noisy jack of all trades, a pc, your pc should either be plugged into a really nice power distributor, or straight into the wall, first.

Again, you can’t just keep ignoring the obvious. There are commercial music and sound studios all over the world, they are very serious audiophile and have typically spent at least $10m and sometimes over $100m. How much have you and other “audiophiles with money to spend” have spent that much? Yet commercial studios do not use audiophile cables, either digital, analogue or audiophile power cables, they use good quality but pretty standard cables costing just a few bucks a metre. They do this because it does not make any difference and even if it did, how are you going to overcome whatever supposed artefacts/weaknesses are baked into the recordings due to them using standard cable? You think maybe audiophile cable is somehow intelligent and applies magic to remove those supposed artefacts?

G