Moving away from DT-990(250Ohms)
Aug 13, 2014 at 2:18 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 28

kaalpurush

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I almost daily use DT990 for listening to music, my interest are mostly in classic rock, classical,jazz and a bit of indie and alternative. After using them for almost 2 years I'm finding the sound to be too harsh for my taste for long listening sessions though most of my sessions are not more than an hour. The main factor pushing me away from DT990 is sibilance and lack of tonal balance however I love the soundstage and  as far as bass goes it is hit or miss for me, sometimes it is just right sometimes it is bloated and loose and muddles the sound.
 
What I'd like to see in an upgrade is more detail and clarity with good soundstage and good amount of controlled bass (no basshead here but do love articulated bass) and above all no harsh or fatiguing treble and the least amount of corrective EQing. My source is FLAC>PC >Schiit Modi>Magni.
Would like to stay under 400$ for upgrade and open to used options, suggestions are welcome.
 
TIA
smily_headphones1.gif

 
Aug 13, 2014 at 11:34 PM Post #5 of 28
Thanks,
@marcopower
I've narrowed down my research to three sets of cans, hd650 is one of them, hd600 and he400 are other two . Previously I had a brief experience with hd558 and found the sound to be inoffensive but kinda boring with not much body , it was not used in the same setup that I have currently though. Hd6xx series is said to be a step above but how different sonically?

@ricksome
It can well be source material sound quality issue. But is not where dt990 bothers me most, in fact in more often than not I'm please with the bass. Treble is the problem, mainly for longer sessions.
 
Aug 14, 2014 at 12:33 AM Post #6 of 28
Have you considered trying a tube amp? Or perhaps installing some felt tuning discs?
 
You also might want to consider the Mad Dog by MrSpeakers. It's closed, but it's in your price range and should be a bit more colorful than the Sennhiesers.
 
Aug 14, 2014 at 3:22 AM Post #7 of 28
I'm trying to do exactly the same thing the OP is doing. I love my DT990 Pro (250ohms), but the treble spike is a bit annoying on some material and I find that I wish I had more mids. Generally, I wanted some cans with more balance and refinement. I'm using an optical-in Modi -> Matrix M-Stage amp.
 
 At first I thought I'd try the Fidelio X1, but then I kept hearing everyone say that they a definitely on the dark side of the spectrum and not terribly detailed. I like treble, I just don't want it to hurt my ears. This ruled out the HD600 and 650 too, since they are dark. Plus, I have an HD598 and I think it's simply the most boring (quality)  headphone I've ever heard. Not a fan.
 
 Then I looked at the HE-300. It sounds pretty promising; more balanced and neutral sounding that the DT990, at at the same price ($150). That lead me to the HE-400, since everyone seems to recommend skipping over the HE-300 and going straight for the HE-400. Well, my HE-400 comes in later today. I'm really looking forward to trying it, but I have my doubts. People say that it has a definite high frequency spike but the consensus seems to be that it's not nearly as painful as the 990s. People also say that it has awesome bass, which is one of the things I love about the 990.
 
 I'm really looking forward to trying them out but I'm also skeptical. If I don't think they are worth the as an upgrade to the DT990, I'll probably return them and get the HE-300, since they are supposed to be more neutral than either of the other two but not as refined. I'd love to hear the opinions on someone who's tried the HE-300, 400, and the DT990 250Ohms.
 
Aug 14, 2014 at 3:43 AM Post #8 of 28
there seem to be some kind of deficiency in most cans...
i finally settled down to a hd650 with a silver plated copper cable 
it has improved clarity in the highs...
and tightness in the bass with some quantity,
n seductive vocals to die/live for.
 
-----------
 
if u dun wan to change the 990...
add a tube amp n roll in some full bodied tubes.
 
Aug 14, 2014 at 8:32 AM Post #9 of 28
  I'm trying to do exactly the same thing the OP is doing. I love my DT990 Pro (250ohms), but the treble spike is a bit annoying on some material and I find that I wish I had more mids. Generally, I wanted some cans with more balance and refinement. I'm using an optical-in Modi -> Matrix M-Stage amp.
 
 At first I thought I'd try the Fidelio X1, but then I kept hearing everyone say that they a definitely on the dark side of the spectrum and not terribly detailed. I like treble, I just don't want it to hurt my ears. This ruled out the HD600 and 650 too, since they are dark. Plus, I have an HD598 and I think it's simply the most boring (quality)  headphone I've ever heard. Not a fan.
 
 Then I looked at the HE-300. It sounds pretty promising; more balanced and neutral sounding that the DT990, at at the same price ($150). That lead me to the HE-400, since everyone seems to recommend skipping over the HE-300 and going straight for the HE-400. Well, my HE-400 comes in later today. I'm really looking forward to trying it, but I have my doubts. People say that it has a definite high frequency spike but the consensus seems to be that it's not nearly as painful as the 990s. People also say that it has awesome bass, which is one of the things I love about the 990.
 
 I'm really looking forward to trying them out but I'm also skeptical. If I don't think they are worth the as an upgrade to the DT990, I'll probably return them and get the HE-300, since they are supposed to be more neutral than either of the other two but not as refined. I'd love to hear the opinions on someone who's tried the HE-300, 400, and the DT990 250Ohms.

 
Let me know how it sounds like as we seem to have a similar path. Some writeup talk about sparky treble of he-400 which will be problematic,if that is not offensive then this might well be what I'm looking for.
 
Aug 15, 2014 at 11:14 AM Post #10 of 28
   
Let me know how it sounds like as we seem to have a similar path. Some writeup talk about sparky treble of he-400 which will be problematic,if that is not offensive then this might well be what I'm looking for.


Alright, got my Hifiman HE-400 in today! My primary headphones have been my DT990 Pro 250 Ohms, and every once in a while I'll pull out my Sennheiser HD598 - at least until I realize how lifeless they sound. I'm just not a fan of them. They sound so detached from the music, like you're listening to a band from the very back row of a venue. My DT990's get waaay more playtime, in any case. My audio chain is like this: Emu1080 Optical Out (SPIDF) to a Schiit Modi (Optical) into my Matrix M-Stage amp. I have a Fiio E10 that I use every now and then
 
 I'm really only going to be able to relay my first impressions of the HE-400 for now, since I've barely put 2 hours of listening time into them. My very first impression with them was: man, these are heavy. Also, figuring out how to plug the cables into the headphone cups took me way longer than I'd like to admit. Now as to how they sound: a lot like my DT990 Pros in sound signature. At first it was somewhat difficult for me to tell exactly what was different about them. There is a small amount less of bass quantity, slightly more prominent mids, and the highs aren't as harsh, but otherwise if you like the signature of the DT990 Pros then you'll like these. Sounds pretty underwhelming, eh?
 
 Okay, now on to what is different about them that I've noticed so far. Separation and detail, my friends. These are the key words here. The HE-400s let me hear so many more tiny details that I've never noticed before in songs that I've been listening to for years, and you can easily pick out and listen to each individual instrument. I'm listening to some Hammock right now (their newest album Departure Songs); and for those of you who haven't been introduced to Hammock, they are an amazing band that blend ambient Brian Eno-ish vibes with post-rock such as Explosions In The Sky and Mono. Anyway, the point is that I can now easily pick out and isolate so much more in these songs.  Every cymbal brush, snare hit, tones of the bass drum.. every bit of static coming from the guitar player's amps. Even synth pads hidden deep in the background are easy to distinguish from the rest of the track. This effect is more pronounced in the lows and mid-lows, too. The DT990 has such hot treble that it'd be impossible NOT to notice every single sound in that range, but it's low end is flat out muddy compared to the HE-400. That's not to say that the highs aren't pronounced on the Hifiman set; they certainly are, but not to the same extent as on the 990.
 
  When I try the DT990 on this same material, it sounds so much more narrow. Everything blends together and gets lost in the mix as one contiguous piece of music instead of many smaller pieces coming together to make a single song. If I could describe it another way: my DT990 would the view you'd get of a party in your backyard, if you were listening inside your house through a window. The HE-400 is what you hear when you're IN your backyard among the guests. It really feels like there's another dimension to the music when I put on the HE-400. If I could only use one word to describe these I would use the word immersive
 
 Comfort wise there is simply no contest. The DT990's feel like soft pillows made of angel feather after wearing the HE-400 for 3 hours. The HE-400 clamps harder, is MUCH heavier, and has stiffer, more uncomfortable pads. Some people have said that  they had trouble getting them to fit correctly but I've had no issues there; they fit completely over my ears without touching them. I have ordered a set of velour pads in an attempt to increase the comfort level (plus, I'm curious about how they change the sound), but if they don't work out well for me, no biggie. These are vastly more comfortable than the Sennheiser HD280 I used to own.
biggrin.gif
 
 
So there ya have it. My very first impression was: "well, they sound very similar, why spend the money?", and then after an hour or so I switched back to the DT990's and I thought: "holy cow, these sound so one-dimensional now!" - I'm definitely keeping these headphones. I'm sure my appreciation will only increase with time, as well. As to the question of will these solve your fatigue from the DT990's pronounced treble, my answer is that I'm not actually sure. They have smoother trouble, no doubt, but I can't say with confidence that it'll be smooth enough for most people's taste.
 
 
 
 By the way guys, Massive Attack sounds awesome on these; so much juicy bass and sub-bass detail.
 
Aug 15, 2014 at 11:46 AM Post #11 of 28
Oh, yeah. The HE-400s have incredible detail resolution. And it's not just in the mids and highs. The bass is so well defined. I bet their sub bass quality would compete with home audio subwoofers costing $1500 to $2000 (or more) at Best Buy. :)
 
Aug 15, 2014 at 12:11 PM Post #12 of 28
I've read that the HE400 is basically an improved DT990 with a similar sound signiture. If you are trying to get away from harsh treble then it's definitely not the HP for you. The HD650 would serve that purpose much better.

I also find it funny that the person who replaced the DT990 with the HE400 wrote off the HD650 and X1 because they are dark (and HD600 is dark? first time I've heard that), when the HE400 is overall the darkest of them all with the recessed upper mid and lower treble.
 
Aug 15, 2014 at 12:28 PM Post #13 of 28
I've read that the HE400 is basically an improved DT990 with a similar sound signiture. If you are trying to get away from harsh treble then it's definitely not the HP for you. The HD650 would serve that purpose much better.


I own the HE-400s. I have not heard the DT990, but I have demoed the DT880 and DT770 extensively. Based upon comparisons I have seen of the different Beyer models with each other, and there measurements, I would not expect the DT990 to sound the same.



Also, changing out the pads of the HE-400 for the velour pads will further change the frequency response.
 
Aug 15, 2014 at 10:10 PM Post #14 of 28
u have a return policy on the he400? 
 
Aug 20, 2014 at 5:50 AM Post #15 of 28
Updated on my HE-400.
 
 Sadly, I have decided to return them. I think they sound great; amazing detail and clarity, and I really enjoy the soundstage. THE reason that I am returning them is due to comfort. At first the weight didn't really bother me much, but after multiple sessions of extended us (4+ hours) I found that their lack of comfort became unbearable. I even tried the velour pads, and the comfort level was abut the same. The velour is softer but has a kind of itchy material (unlike the velour on the DT990s), and I really didn't like what it did to the sound. I feel like it lost a lot of clarity in the lows and low-mids. I also think the soundstage suffered a bit with them.
 
 Bottom line is that if I'm going to spend that much money on headphones, they better be something I can wear for extended periods of time, and the HE-400's comfort level just doesn't cut it.
 
I'm sending them back to amazon for a refund and I've already ordered a the Sennheiser HD650. I'm still skeptical about them but I'm willing to give them a shot. I picked these over the HD600 because I do love my bass and and I figure it'd be nice to have a pair of headphones that don't have piercing highs for a change.
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- I loved the level of detail in the HE-400 and people say the the HD650 has great detail when properly amped. I'm not sure if my Matrix M-Stage is going to be sufficient to drive it well enough to get that quality, but if I need to upgrade my amp to something better I can always do that in the future.
 
 If I don't like the HD650 then I really don't know what I'm going to do!
 

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