[ephemere]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif Transparent is not sterile. Sterile and analytical sound is a coloration. Transparency implies a lack of coloration. Ergo transparent sound would sound more live and lifelike if that is how the music is recorded, and how the source portrays it. It is a massive head-fi myth that accurate sound is somehow not musical. Listen to a high-end speaker system that measures perfectly flat 20-20 and then tell me that it's not musical.

x4

Except the part about "flat 20-20". There's a lot more to achieving transparency in speaker design than a flat frequency response. Take a look at the suite of measurements that John Atkinson takes for Stereophile's speaker reviews. There are many dimensions beyond the steady-state nearfield on-axis frequency response, and they're all important to achieving transparency.

But otherwise, good post. The "musicality" should be in the music, not the equipment.

 

[TempestX]

Isn't it ironic that several in the past, since release of the K701 said it had an un-naturally large sound/headstage. However, several say the HD 800's sound/headstage is even larger.

Hmmm, very interesting!

Happy listening!

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TempestX /img/forum/go_quote.gif Isn't it ironic that several in the past, since release of the K701 said it had an un-naturally large sound/headstage. However, several say the HD 800's sound/headstage is even larger. Hmmm, very interesting! Happy listening!

The 701 Sound stage size feels manufactured, un natural, & artificially big.. While the K1000 feels extremely natural, same with the MDR F1 to some extent.. From what I hear, the same goes for the HD800..

 

[Uncle Erik]

Transparency is probaby my favorite quality when I look for transducers and I've built my rig around it.

The truly transparent headphones I've listened to are the HD-800, K-1000, HP-1000, Omega II Mk. 1, DT48, and the K-240DF. That's why I bought them and they won't leave my collection.

The K-701/2 has some transparency, but the problem is that it doesn't get the notes right. There's a weird coloration in the vocal range I was never able to get used to. The K-601 is a much better headphone in my opinion.

kmhaynes, no, there's no way to compare headphones against the studionsound of every recording. However, some of us have been around lots and lots of live music. I started playing clarinet at nine and am 37 now. I've picked up several other instruments along the way and have probably spent several years of my life in rehearsals and performances. If something sounds like what I've experienced, then it's a pretty safe bet that it's accurate with other music, too. Further, I've xompared these against a couple of damn flat speakers. The Verhagen ribbons are ruler flat from 350Hz up and the Quad ESL-63s can put out perfect squarewaves without blinking. If a headphone jibes with what I've heard as well as the ribbons and Quads, I judge it to be pretty damn good.

I agree with the opinion that flat gear isn't boring at all. Colored gear is what - eventually - gets boring. Certain colorations are engineered into a huge amount of gear. That's done to make people say "wow!" and buy during a 15 or 20 minute audition. Eventually, you get used to the coloration, get bored with it, and then start looking for the next piece of gear that immediately grabs you. Most people assume they need to spend more, too, and that terminates in a spiral of upgraditis.

The transparent and neutral gear almost never grabs you at first listen. You have to live with it for awhile before it sinks in that it doesn't place a wrong foot anywhere. The problem is that the neutral and transparent gear gets passed over by many on first listen, rhen they buy something colored and go wild posting about how great it is. Then six or twelve months later, they'll be raving about something else.

It's something of a paradox, but the only way to appreciate a piece of gear in the long term is to buy what might not sound great in the first place. Neutral and transparent gear is the only way of the upgraditis treadmill and will let you enjoy your music without having to constantly reassess your gear or setup.

 

[Acix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif The K-701/2 has some transparency, but the problem is that it doesn't get the notes right. There's a weird coloration in the vocal range I was never able to get used to. The K-601 is a much better headphone in my opinion.

Maybe the 701s don't like your tubes.

did you take this in consideration ???

 

[rhythmdevils]

.

 

[Cool_Torpedo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acix /img/forum/go_quote.gif Maybe the 701s don't like your tubes. did you take this in consideration ???

LOL probably they don't like any single one of the amps/sources I've tried with them

 

[xkRoWx]

Hmm, if transparency and neutrality is two different adjective, would one consider the Etymotic ER4P/S to be neutral, or transparent?

 

[MrOutside]

DT880
ER4S
K1000
HE90
HD800
in that order IMO. the 880 is top because its frequency response is flat, even though it is outperformed by every other phone listed. Same with ER4S, its detail isnt huge
The DT48 is not a music headphone, and is designed with a flat frequency response but rolled off highs. The human ear does not hear flat and this is why I have not included it.

 

[Acix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cool_Torpedo /img/forum/go_quote.gif LOL probably they don't like any single one of the amps/sources I've tried with them

You can try again, but this time you start with Phonitor or Luxman.

 

[Cankin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif The K-701/2 has some transparency, but the problem is that it doesn't get the notes right. There's a weird coloration in the vocal range I was never able to get used to. The K-601 is a much better headphone in my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cool_Torpedo /img/forum/go_quote.gif LOL probably they don't like any single one of the amps/sources I've tried with them

If that is the case, I think I prefer weird coloration

 

[estreeter]

Its official - I have a much better headphone than the K70* !

Personally, I still find the soundstage on the 601 to be unnaturally large - it must be stadium-sized on the 70* ....

 

[Cankin]

It's interesting to see how we hear differently, soundstage on K601 is "medium size" to me.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cankin /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's interesting to see how we hear differently, soundstage on K601 is "medium size" to me.

To me the soundstage on the K 701 is «medium size» (compared to the HD 800).

.

 

[Cankin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ /img/forum/go_quote.gif To me the soundstage on the K 701 is «medium size» (compared to the HD 800). .

I've read that many times and other said HD800 is a "supercharged" K701. Since I like my K701 and I definitely would like to audit and eventually own a HD800. But, at that price range, there are several top end headphones like JH13 or used SR007.