[SSandDigital]

FYI, Harman's fairly rigorous studies re headphone and speaker sound preferences also seem to support my view on this.

Why do people keep referencing this? It's getting so old. What amazes me most, the presentation and paper is old. And yet it seems to be thing for so many to keep referring to. I don't get it.

Also no idea how anyone realistically can do this without EQ, considering his curve is elevations in the sub-bass flat through mids and then rolls off in the treble. Of course, this would enrage anyone at Head-Fi or Audiophool screaming at their screen pointing at response graphs, look at the roll off! Last I checked heaphones universally have steap roll off in the bass and having their highest peaks through the treble.

And what's more ludicrous, this paper is about listener's preference for sound through headphones. Who the hell needs a paper for this? If you are too afraid to experiment with EQ to change the sound a bit to your liking, then that's the listeners problem. But the idea people need a paper from Harmon to justify their EQ is bizarre to me.

Also all the paper really did for me at least is justify what JBL, Bose and Beats have been doing with their headphones. Dr. Olive's research did IMO is prove JBL consumer sound is what the general populace wants. Shocking.

 

[peskypesky]

Amusing cause they are docs and by their profession would know anatomy and the limitations of human hearing and how susceptible human hearing is to be influenced by outside factors such as price tag and ridiculous reviews. But then, I guess what else do they have to spend their money on? I dunno.

Both of them are musicians and music fanatics, and the only things they really spend money on are instruments and audio gear.

 

[bagwell359]

Welcome back, bagwell359. I'll be curious to hear your results. Please report back with your findings on both of the above (EQ & amp).

If you could somehow throw a DT 770 and/or DT 990 into the mix, that would be cool too. Those are the two Beyers on my shortlist at the moment. Along with the DT 150 (which doesn't appear to need as much help in the tonal balance department).

I withdrew from the battle aspects of the thread. But yeah I would honestly like to give the Beyers, Ananda, and LCD-2 another shot with an effective digital parametric EQ. Problem is I don't have access to any, and social distancing and being tight with funds isn't likely to help that situation.

 

[bagwell359]

Why do people keep referencing this? It's getting so old. What amazes me most, the presentation and paper is old. And yet it seems to be thing for so many to keep referring to. I don't get it.

Some folks are not experiential. They want a guide. I'm with you.

Also no idea how anyone realistically can do this without EQ, considering his curve is elevations in the sub-bass flat through mids and then rolls off in the treble. Of course, this would enrage anyone at Head-Fi or Audiophool screaming at their screen pointing at response graphs, look at the roll off! Last I checked heaphones universally have steap roll off in the bass and having their highest peaks through the treble.

Well, eventually all cans do roll off in the bass, but some of the planars go down essentially to sub 20 Hz. Yeah cans are least flat in the treble AFAIC remember.

And what's more ludicrous, this paper is about listener's preference for sound through headphones. Who the hell needs a paper for this? If you are too afraid to experiment with EQ to change the sound a bit to your liking, then that's the listeners problem. But the idea people need a paper from Harmon to justify their EQ is bizarre to me.

Also all the paper really did for me at least is justify what JBL, Bose and Beats have been doing with their headphones. Dr. Olive's research did IMO is prove JBL consumer sound is what the general populace wants. Shocking.

Everyone I know in the speaker/headphone world rejects the curve as its shown by beats.

 

[kman1211]

The build quality seems quite good. Mids *seem* OK, but with all that extra treble etching on top, hard to say if its real detail or faux detail. I will attempt to get a couple of the top models on a parametric EQ, and see what happens. Also in a month or so my BH Crack should be done and perhaps that's the ticket for them.

Beyers tend to respond very well to eq and modding. The drivers on the T1, Amiron Home, and DT 1990 don’t really have any issues in terms of distortion, etching etc. but they all have an upper treble peak that is very love or hate and can add some tizziness(T1.2) or sharpness(Amiron/DT 1990) but it’s not hard to fix this issue. I actually find the T1.2 almost too smooth and too dark in the treble when EQ is applied to tone down it’s peak. Beyers are often quite dark if not very dark when the treble is toned down, when tuned to be more flat in the treble they have no tendency towards brightness or hardness, I often feel the Beyer peak is often put in to compensate for their inherently dark sound. EQ’ing Beyers is not difficult and they take it well, actually quite easy as you really just have to focus on the upper treble for the most part and maybe a couple other areas to a smaller degree.

 

[bagwell359]

Beyers tend to respond very well to eq and modding. The drivers on the T1, Amiron Home, and DT 1990 don’t really have any issues in terms of distortion, etching etc. but they all have an upper treble peak that is very love or hate and can add some tizziness(T1.2) or sharpness(Amiron/DT 1990) but it’s not hard to fix this issue. I actually find the T1.2 almost too smooth and too dark in the treble when EQ is applied to tone down it’s peak. Beyers are often quite dark if not very dark when the treble is toned down, when tuned to be more flat in the treble they have no tendency towards brightness or hardness, I often feel the Beyer peak is often put in to compensate for their inherently dark sound. EQ’ing Beyers is not difficult and they take it well, actually quite easy as you really just have to focus on the upper treble for the most part and maybe a couple other areas to a smaller degree.

Inherently dark. Hmmm. I've heard the 770 and 990, both w/o EQ. I don't know models you talk about.

Can you name some other cans that are inherently dark? I think for instance the LCD-2 fits that. LCD-3 also probably. E2? HEX v1? Just trying to figure out what that term means to you.

 

[xRaptorxPunisher]

Sennheiser. They make 3 good headphones HD800, HD650, HD600

Audeze - they make two, 2C and LCD-4

Beyerdynamic, all awful, bright metallic mess. Made for deaf people.

 

[kman1211]

Inherently dark. Hmmm. I've heard the 770 and 990, both w/o EQ. I don't know models you talk about.

Can you name some other cans that are inherently dark? I think for instance the LCD-2 fits that. LCD-3 also probably. E2? HEX v1? Just trying to figure out what that term means to you.

No wonder you think Beyers sound so nasty in the treble, those two are some of the worst offenders in terms treble, not good introductions to the brand. My first Beyer was the DT 990 Pro and I was quite put off by their sound and didn't bother with Beyer for years. I didn't find a Beyer I truly liked until I tried the DT 150 much later on and later the DT 1990 (though a bit too bright for me stock) Amiron Home, and T1.2. do want to try the DT 177X Go sometime as it doesn't seem like it really has the Beyer peak on it.

It's been a very long time since I've heard an LCD-2. The Nighthawk is dark in tuning but wouldn't say inherently as I find it starts sounding a bit bright to my ears with extended use after adjusting to the sound. I haven't heard a lot of planars. Maybe not inherently dark as it may not be the best descriptor of what I'm trying to convey but when on many Beyers with the treble at a reasonable level they never start sounding brighter or slightly grating on my ears. Very often headphones with extended listening start grating on me and come off as a bit bright and/or unpleasant after a while is what I mean. Sadly I find most everything else fatiguing with extended listening outside of Beyers, seems weird to say as so many complain about their treble, I've always had very sensitive ears and the headphones the ended up causing the least issues in terms of fatigue are Beyers with darker or controlled treble. Another inherently dark headphone, I'll have to think a bit on that, I haven't heard so many headphones in so long I've forgotten what some sound like.

 

[SilverEars]

No wonder you think Beyers sound so nasty in the treble, those two are some of the worst offenders in terms treble, not good introductions to the brand. My first Beyer was the DT 990 Pro and I was quite put off by their sound and didn't bother with Beyer for years. I didn't find a Beyer I truly liked until I tried the DT 150 much later on and later the DT 1990 (though a bit too bright for me stock) Amiron Home, and T1.2. do want to try the DT 177X Go sometime as it doesn't seem like it really has the Beyer peak on it.

It's been a very long time since I've heard an LCD-2. The Nighthawk is dark in tuning but wouldn't say inherently as I find it starts sounding a bit bright to my ears with extended use after adjusting to the sound. I haven't heard a lot of planars. Maybe not inherently dark as it may not be the best descriptor of what I'm trying to convey but when on many Beyers with the treble at a reasonable level they never start sounding brighter or slightly grating on my ears. Very often headphones with extended listening start grating on me and come off as a bit bright and/or unpleasant after a while is what I mean. Sadly I find most everything else fatiguing with extended listening outside of Beyers, seems weird to say as so many complain about their treble, I've always had very sensitive ears and the headphones the ended up causing the least issues in terms of fatigue are Beyers with darker or controlled treble. Another inherently dark headphone, I'll have to think a bit on that, I haven't heard so many headphones in so long I've forgotten what some sound like.

You just reminded me to add that Audioquest headphones should be named here. Not so sure if they are over-rated in a sense of being hyped like crazy, but man is their headphones wonky sounding! It's hard to believe people can put up with that level of color in the sound. I can't think of a reason to have them around because I won't be able to tolerate the sound.

I'm not really a varieties of headphones type of guy. I sell stuff I don't use because why have stuff around not used?

 

[ADUHF]

Sennheiser. They make 3 good headphones HD800, HD650, HD600

Audeze - they make two, 2C and LCD-4

Beyerdynamic, all awful, bright metallic mess. Made for deaf people.

The Beyerdynamic DT 770 and 990 can both be had for under $150 street right now. What would you suggest as an alternative in the same price range with comparable build and sound quality, and good bass, that's more neutral in the treble, xRaptorxPunisher?

The open-backed Senn HD 600 & 650 you mentioned above are too rolled-off in the bass for my taste, and that can't really be altered much with an EQ. I've tried it on other Senns, like the 558, and they just end up sounding more boomy and distorted in the upper bass and mids. The only way I know to extend an open-back HP is to close the openings... which sort of defeats the whole purpose of getting an open-back headphone. Plus they are generally above my price range new (which I prefer). As are the Audezes you mentioned.

kman1211 has offered one possible alternative, the Beyer DT-150. But I would certainly like to hear some others... if there are any. Something other than the usual AudioTechnica M50X, if possible. I've been lookin for a long time, and so far have come up mostly empty on this question, which is why I've resorted to looking for headphones that I can EQ.

Maybe I should be looking at some of the Monoprice/Monolith HPs? They make some very affordable planar headphones. And even an inexpensive electrostat. And their prices are a little more in line with what I can afford. I wish they had a simple closed-back headphone with a 50mm dynamic driver. But it looks like they only used those in their open-backed HPs. (The closed HR-5C has a 42mm driver, which is respectable. But I like the thump you get with a little larger driver.) No idea if the sound or build quality is any good on any of the above. But that may not matter as much with their lower prices.

Are there any Monoprice/Monolith fans here who are willing to go out on a limb and defend this brand, and offer any helpful recommendations on them?

 

[SSandDigital]

Beyerdynamic, all awful, bright metallic mess. Made for deaf people.

Laughably wrong. They make their headphones for studios and broadcasting. Maybe can try to understand why Beyer tunes their headphones the way they do. DT250, DT770, DT990 are among the most popular headphones among broadcasting, mixing, mastering, engineers for a reason. Unless you want to imply mastering engineers are deaf? Seriously?

 

[peskypesky]

Are there any Monoprice/Monolith fans here who are willing to go out on a limb and defend this brand, and offer any helpful recommendations on them?

Some Monoprice headphones get good reviews. Look for a thread on them here.

 

[SSandDigital]

Everyone I know in the speaker/headphone world rejects the curve as its shown by beats.

That study wasn't about you or your friends then. Paper doesn't say they filtered out general public, at least my impression was the opposite, it was study of the general public's sound preference. And that makes sense, hell most of the general public I see, the way they listen to their music, can barely hear the mids/treble, it's just bass/sub bass. But then their music choice reflects that.

And also makes sense why headphones from AT for example are profiled the way they do, reflecting the sound preference of their consumers who listen to K-pop/J-pop and classical.

Dunno why they needed to do this study. Just look at what music your constituents listen to, adjust the sound curve best suited for that music, voila, done.

 

[FastAndClean]

ultrasone and grado

 

[xRaptorxPunisher]

Laughably wrong. They make their headphones for studios and broadcasting. Maybe can try to understand why Beyer tunes their headphones the way they do. DT250, DT770, DT990 are among the most popular headphones among broadcasting, mixing, mastering, engineers for a reason. Unless you want to imply mastering engineers are deaf? Seriously?

My experience, my opinion, stop crying and get over it.


Mastering? With brighter treble peaks and basshumps? Hmmmmm interesting.