[TonyNewman]

  As a reviewer I want good sound not studio mastering. Bob Katz is a mastering engineer and listens for something I do not. ...

 
Tyll is primarily about reviewing headhpones. As per his own review of the 430HAD, he looks for transparency in his reference amps.
 
To quote Tyll:
 
"...I'm a headphone reviewer, and what I need in a headphone amp is to get the hell out of the way and let me hear the headphones at their level best..."
 
My point is that the Auralic Taurus Mk2 fits this criteria better than the 430HA (and presumably the 430HAD, but I have never heard the inbuilt DAC version, so can't say for sure). For transparency, I would pick the Taurus MK2 every time, but for pure listening pleasure, given my music preferences, it is the 430HA. As always, YMMV.

 

[longbowbbs]

1st world choices....
 

 

 

[TonyNewman]

  1st world choices....
 

 

 
Absolutely. Both are fine amps and very, very difficult to distinguish in a blind test.
 
I have done this, by the way. My HeadFi buddy (Badas) and I did some blind testing on the 430HA vs Taurus Mk2 some weeks ago. It was only on the deep + intense bass sounds, like that mentioned above, that we could separate them at all. Even then it wasn't easy.
 
For anyone that hasn't done some blind testing on high end amps I highly recommend it. You will be surprised at how hard it is, and how little difference there really is between the best gear. Makes me wonder what the folks on 6 Moons etc... are carrying on about

 

 

[longbowbbs]

I agree with you Tony. I was talking to a friend about DAC's and which was bette or worth whatever money. We are getting so close to SOTA that even $1k USD DAC's are at 95% of what is available. I certainly appreciate companies continuing to push the boundaries though. The bets part is the value proposition and price/performance has really moved toward the consumer. This is the golden age of 2 channel whether it is headphones or two channel.

 

[TonyNewman]

DACs are a good example. The Auralic Vega is about as far as I want to go (or can afford to go) for a DAC. Whatever I throw at it, it handles superbly. To get a significantly better sounding DAC I am probably looking at something in 10K to 20K price bracket (or perhaps even more).
 
My hope is that the technology of those 10 to 20K DACs will trickle down to the 5K DACs in a few years, so when it comes time to replace the Vega in a few years time I can get something significantly better for a similar price. Might all be fantasy inside my head, but that is my hope.

 

[longbowbbs]

I am not sure you can use the word "significantly". Even the big boy DACs have a limit atm. You can spend the $$ but the law of diminishing returns is working big time here. PS Audio Directstream, Chord TT, Schiit Yggy, the new Vi DAC from LH Labs, the Vega or the W4S DAC2 DSDse....All will get you to 98% of what is out there today using Delta Sigma, R2R or FPGA. This is a very good thing!

 

[jelt2359]

Thanks @TonyNewman for the further explanations on Taurus vs 430 HA. Appreciate it! I can emphasise with what you said about the Taurus. Great clarity and transparency, but never too harsh. That said sometimes I want a little warmth, look forward to a chance to compare with the 430 HA myself.

PS, also good to hear you're back to the 430 HA. As you know you were the one who pointed me towards this combo way back when. Is the Woo out of the picture entirely now?

 

[TonyNewman]

For sure. My hope is that in the next 3 to 5 years that extra 2% sneeks its way into the '5K and under' price bracket.
 
Not there is anything really lacking at the Vega level right now. Excellent DAC.

 

[TonyNewman]

Thanks @TonyNewman for the further explanations on Taurus vs 430 HA. Appreciate it! I can emphasise with what you said about the Taurus. Great clarity and transparency, but never too harsh. That said sometimes I want a little warmth, look forward to a chance to compare with the 430 HA myself.

PS, also good to hear you're back to the 430 HA. As you know you were the one who pointed me towards this combo way back when. Is the Woo out of the picture entirely now?

 
Happy to help (if indeed I did help). Tastes change as well as our perceptions of gear. It took me a long time to appreciate the 430HA for what it is. For a tiny loss of bass punch you get a euphony and musicality that is very seductive, depending on your musical tastes. If you are a metal head and want to thrash and bang, then the Taurus (or a GS-X Mk2) might be the better choice. If you preferences are more laid back and vocal-centric, then the 430HA makes a lot of sense. Keep in mind the differences in amps at this level are not large IMHO - you could head bang with the 430HA or listen to soft vocal tracks on the Taurus Mk2 and not miss out on much.
 
My Woo is boxed up and unlikely to get any use anytime soon. My newest (and best) 300B amp was damaged by an act of neanderthal user stupidity. Might take a while to get that fixed, which gives me time to play with the 430HA / Taurus Mk2 / HE6 from power amp speaker tap rigs.

 

[edwardsean]

   
Happy to help (if indeed I did help). Tastes change as well as our perceptions of gear. It took me a long time to appreciate the 430HA for what it is. For a tiny loss of bass punch you get a euphony and musicality that is very seductive, depending on your musical tastes. If you are a metal head and want to thrash and bang, then the Taurus (or a GS-X Mk2) might be the better choice. If you preferences are more laid back and vocal-centric, then the 430HA makes a lot of sense. Keep in mind the differences in amps at this level are not large IMHO - you could head bang with the 430HA or listen to soft vocal tracks on the Taurus Mk2 and not miss out on much.

+1
 
I really agree. At this level of performance the amps have to sound more alike than not. No matter the design topology, the shared goal is high fidelity to a common source. From there, I do love the different takes on what hifi is. think of it like the great classical performers. At the highest level, no one is going to make glaring errors; they all have to play the same material faithfully, but the interpretations can vary beautifully. If I can indulge the analogy, if the Taurus is Horowitz, the 430, like Van Cliburn, consistently hits a a hair more lightly finding the ethereal soul of a piece. And that is "seductive" to my tastes. But, at the same time, Horowitz's fans are legion. The great amp builders are artists, and we should recognize that just as no composition gets rendered without an interpretation, no amp is going to reproduce that performance without a subsequent interpretation. 
 
We talk of "neutral" and what would we do without the concept. But, what is "neutral"? (Is it just because the amp is named "Neo" that I keep going "The Matrix"?) I wonder if from Tyll's perspective, whose heard more of the field and for longer than all of us, the Taurus and/or GS-X are sharp of neutral. I don't know. I do agree with Eric that we have an embarrassment of riches right now. Decades ago, I was happily listening to my Etymotic ER-4 out of some early Headroom stuff and thought, "how much better can it get? I'm glad I swallowed the red pill and entered the world of audiophiles to find out (though I, and my wallet, periodically wish I just took the blue one). 

 

[john777]

Here is my box showing the D version. I am glad I went with the installed DAC. It is a wonderful board and the convenience is fantastic.

vgi

Ah, a fellow AA'er. You have helped me make up my mind about the DAC. Thank you. (John49)

 

[john777]

And that! The volume control is second to none also. Same as the 600i.

And my 700i.

 

[Yoga]

And my 700i.

What speakers are you running?

 

[Nomax]

i love the sound from the built in Dac and it is worth the money,but it sounds also great without dac,here a Pic of my MOON NEO SETUP



Regards From Austria

Nomax

 

[Velomane]

Nomax,
 
What is that setup?