[Velomane]

Furthermore, it has been stated that the built-in DAC is an excellent value. I hope to find out when I get home after work today. Come on Canada Post, don't let me down!

 

[xp9433]

 
I haven't received mine yet, but my answer for all DACs is that upsampling does nothing at best (makes things worse sometimes). 
Better to match the source output.

aphex27
From personal experience, I respectfully disagree. I upsample 44.1 16x.
There are respected designers who over quite a few years have (for very good technical reasons) designed and refined software to upsample 16x. E.g. XXHighEnd and HQP, where their users really appreciate the SQ benefits.
A prerequisite is having a DAC that can take a 705.6/768kHz or 4xDSD feed and then not further upsample/downsample to destroy the benefits.
Have you been able to experiment with such a system in forming your opinion?
Cheers
Frank

 

[Mortalcoil]

  Furthermore, it has been stated that the built-in DAC is an excellent value. I hope to find out when I get home after work today. Come on Canada Post, don't let me down!

Congrats !  Keep checking that tracking number 

 
According to what I've read on the DAC section it is often compared to sounding very much like the 280D.
 
When I picked up my unit the other day my dealer rated the DAC a 5 out of 10 lol....not very encouraging.
 
Although he's coming from a Meitner and Total DAC viewpoint.
 
Overall its a nice sounding DAC although I only have approx 12 hours on the unit so still tough for me to really judge so early I suppose.  Regardless......great value all things considered and sounding good to my ears, no complaints..
 
By the way Velomane gotta love that January 1st Canadian price increase bringing the cost of the 430HA-D to $4600 plus tax 

(hopefully you were able to wheel and deal a bit with your dealer though)

 

[Velomane]

 
Congrats !  Keep checking that tracking number 

 
  By the way Velomane gotta love that January 1st Canadian price increase bringing the cost of the 430HA-D to $4600 plus tax 

(hopefully you were able to wheel and deal a bit with your dealer though)

Score! It was waiting for me when I got home. Now to wait for the 300 hour mark for the full bloom. It sounds pretty good right now, though slightly compressed.
 
I was unaware of the price increase, as I ordered it on Boxing Day at a special price. Makes me glad I pulled the trigger when I did.

 

[edwardsean]

Personally, I love the built in DAC with the amp. If you're going to compare it to ~10K DACs, sure, you can rate it as average. But, I think then you really start getting more into the technicalities of performance rather than simple enjoyment. As a one-box unit, Simaudio has matched the DAC and amp remarkably well, the connections are hardwired, and balanced throughout. So, even though I'm never content, I don't find the unit wanting from an enjoyment perspective--quite the opposite. 
 
Please do allow for the full burn in time using both the amp and DAC, the sound does relax and bloom over time. 

 

[emrelights1973]

still turning back for connecting the moon to the naim nd5xs, if i connect the naim trough rca inputs will i loose something, i don't know much about balanced/unbalanced, xor cables an such are not that popular in my side of the world, will it worth to invest to the dac section, can anyone compare it with naim nd5xs.... 
 
will i have to invest to xlr 3 or 4 inputs for my hd800/lcd2 ? 
 
even with the dac version i will use the naim streamer to feed the dac... i have my music in my bas so i need a streamer anyway....
 
please help  

 

[Articnoise]

 
ı have  naim nd5xs streamer, will it be worth spending extra to buy the dac version? or just amp version and use ıt with naim... any comments?

 

I don’t know but I would not be surprised if your Naim sounded as good as or even better in some regards than the Moon DAC chip, balanced or not. I like the sound signature of the Naim DAC’s I have heard (not heard the ND5 XS thou) and I think it will boil down do synergy and preference more than that one is clearly better.

 

On the other hand the DAC chip cost relatively little extra and you will have a one unit system if you prefer that matching. The matching in this case is maybe even of more importance than usual, as some have reported that the 430 HA can be a bit smooth and polite in character and that is also my impressions of the character of the Naim DACs I have heard. Personally, if I had decided to buy a NEO 430 and cannot try it before buying it, I would go for the 430 with the DAC and try which one I like the best. If it’s the Naim I would be good and use it and if it’s the Moon DAC I would sell the Naim. 

 

[emrelights1973]

Naim nd5xs is a streamer, so i will use it with moon dac as well, also is a part of a stereo setup, will i miss a lot out of balanced/unbalaced setup

 

[Mortalcoil]

Naim nd5xs is a streamer, so i will use it with moon dac as well, also is a part of a stereo setup, will i miss a lot out of balanced/unbalaced setup

 Only if you are attempting to run a fully balanced setup.
 
I have hooked up my Naim DAC V1 to the 430HA for comparissons sake (unbalanced).  What I found honestly is that as far as DACs go its pretty close and this based on Sabre vs Burr Brown.
 
We all know its all about implementation and not just chip type or cost.  The Naim has the advantage of an independent power supply (and Naim knows power supplies) on the other hand there is no denying that Simaudio knows a thing or two also especially with the 430HA. 
 
Where I do hear a difference is when using the onboard Moon DAC fully balanced with my HD-800.  The sound is mored fleshed out, more presence of authority.  Its subtle but its there.
 
Best bet as mentioned is to shoot for the 430HA-D, listen to it, live with it and then decide if a DAC upgrade is in the stars.  This is how I've approached it.
 
One last thing,  if you get the 430HA you owe it yourself to try balanced IMO..

 

[Articnoise]

 
 Only if you are attempting to run a fully balanced setup.
 
I have hooked up my Naim DAC V1 to the 430HA for comparissons sake (unbalanced).  What I found honestly is that as far as DACs go its pretty close and this based on Sabre vs Burr Brown.
 
We all know its all about implementation and not just chip type or cost.  The Naim has the advantage of an independent power supply (and Naim knows power supplies) on the other hand there is no denying that Simaudio knows a thing or two also especially with the 430HA. 
 
Where I do hear a difference is when using the onboard Moon DAC fully balanced with my HD-800.  The sound is mored fleshed out, more presence of authority.  Its subtle but its there.
 
Best bet as mentioned is to shoot for the 430HA-D, listen to it, live with it and then decide if a DAC upgrade is in the stars.  This is how I've approached it.
 
One last thing,  if you get the 430HA you owe it yourself to try balanced IMO..

 

I think you are spot-on. I would also expect that the ND5XS is clearly better than DAC V1 as a DAC. 

 

 

[Mortalcoil]

   

I think you are spot-on. I would also expect that the ND5XS is clearly better than DAC V1 as a DAC. 

 

 
 Actually Articnoise with all due respect the DAC V1 is a very accomplished piece of kit especially with the recently added DSD upgrade.

 

[Articnoise]

   
 Actually Articnoise with all due respect the DAC V1 is a very accomplished piece of kit especially with the recently added DSD upgrade.

 

My presumption was formed mostly on the PSUs of them. But if you says so 

 

[longbowbbs]

  Curious to know, those with the DAC feature what do you generally run it in?
 
On average do you find yourself utilizing the 32 bit or keeping it at 44.1 and 24 bit.
 
I would love to hear your impressions with your findings when comparing the various bit rates / formats ...etc.
 
Enquiring minds want to know

I keep it native so no upsampling for me. So far I am very satisfied with the DAC performance. The amp, of course, is TOTL.

 

[Mortalcoil]

  I keep it native so no upsampling for me. So far I am very satisfied with the DAC performance. The amp, of course, is TOTL.

 
Apppreciate the feedback.
 
Agreed, the amp is def TOTL.

 

[TonyNewman]

On Saturday I packed up my 430HA and shipped it to a buyer in Singapore. My SS headamp of choice is now the Auralic Taurus Mk2 exclusively.
 
What I am going to say below is going to ruffle some feathers on the 430HA/430HAD fans. I have done my best to be objective. Keep in mind that this is my viewpoint, based on my preferences and associated gear. As always, YMMV.
 
Some words on why I sold the 430HA and kept the Taurus. I enjoyed the 430HA on many tracks. Anything slow, soft and vocal centric was rendered very well. Lovely warmth and body. But here is the big huge 'BUT' in all this - but I get the same effect from my tube amps (WA5 and Glenn 300B). What I want from a SS amp, more than anything else, is transparency. I want a window onto the source material. For me, the Taurus does this much, much better than the 430HA. I was getting better detail, dynamics and punch from the Glenn 300B amp than I was getting from the 430HA. When a tube amp beats SS at detail, dynamics and punch something is wrong in the world (admittedly, the Glenn 300B is an exceptional tube amp and I was using exceptional tubes, but still should not beat a high end SS amp).
 
The 430HA managed to take the first minute of Baba O'Riley from The Who and make it dull. The drive, speed and energy was gone. One of the best bits of music that humanity has ever made and the 430HA killed it.
 
I bought the 430HA very soon after its release. That was my mistake. I was expecting a more powerful and better featured version of the Taurus or GSX-Mk2. What I got was a SS amp that performed well on some tracks, but sucked the excitement and engagement from others.
 
I have a Simaudio 230HAD as a workplace / bedside unit. This unit I am keeping. The 230HAD is much closer to a transparent DAC / Amp to my ears. Still has some warmth in it, but does it with a much lighter touch than the 430HA. I did a bunch of A/B/C testing with a HeadFi buddy between the Taurus / 430HA / 230HAD (as amp only) - all 3 fed from the Vega DAC - and the ranking of the amps was pretty clear to our ears - Taurus then the 230HAD and lastly the 430HA.
 
It amazes me that Tyll would remove the Taurus from the Wall Of Fame to insert the 430HAD. It amazes me even more that Tyll could describe the 430 as a 'reference' amp suitable for use as a reviewer tool. I would have thought that a reference amp should be as transparent as possible - as close to the 'wire with gain' ideal as the skill of the amp designer can get. To my ears the Taurus ticks this box and the 430HA most assuredly does not. The amp section of the 230HAD does a better job of transparency.
 
All this isn't to say that the 430HA is a bad amp - it just isn't the type of amp I wanted. If you want a SS amp that is close to tubes in sound, and don't mind sacrificing some dynamics, speed and punch to get it, then the 430HA makes a lot of sense. If you already have a tube amp and want a transparent SS amp, then go get yourself a Taurus, or GSX-Mk2, or V281 or even a 230HAD - anything but the 430HA.
 
A word on the 230HAD. The amp section on this unit is rather good. Feeding it direct from the Vega highlighted how good the amp section really is. The onboard DAC is OK - nothing special - about what you would expect for the money. Hook the amp up to a better DAC and the 230HAD scales nicely. Both my HeadFi buddy and I preferred the Vega+230HAD sound to the Vega+430HA.