[kwkarth]

Quote:

Heh, heh... yeah, I really don't get the whole 'soundstage' thing with IEM's. Um... they are pumping the sound waves to deep inside your ear canal. Anything other than left, right and points in between are just artifacts. 

Shane,
I think you're 100% right.  True "soundstage" is captured in the original recording, if it exists at all.  If everything in the listener's playback chain faithfully convey's what was recorded, including phase coherency, the listener will hear something approximating  the original soundstage.  It has nothing to do with a headphone's size, or whether or not a headphone is open back, closed back, IEM, or whatever.
 
The "psychoacoustics" of soundstage perception are affected by subtle dips and peaks in the frequency response contour of the headphone/earphone being listened to.  It is a purely artificial effect and has nothing to do with the reality of what was recorded.  Because the psychoacoustics are based largely upon FR contour, what sounds just right to one, may sound horrible to another, as HRTFs are as individual as fingerprints.  There are other attributes which can contribute to one's perception of artificial soundstage, but we can leave that for another thread. 

 

[mark2410]

Quote:

My guess is that Mark is inserting them too deeply and lot letting them breathe as was said. He also said he having air pressure issues earlier and that must be causing fit problems that is altering sq negatively. I get the same thing at times, but this is what I do:
 
Use the traditional method of pulling the ears back and inserting slightly deeply. Then I move them back and twist them very slightly and slowly till I get the sweetspot. If moving them causes pressure or clogs the sounds start from the beginning and maybe try another angle.

 
hmmm they are actually sitting pretty far out, the problem i think is the fit / pressure issue i am having with them.  im not giving up on them yet but i dont forsee me making this issue go away entirly as its exactly the issue i had with the ortofons.
 
an issue that became literally painful

 

[Kunlun]

Quote:

having not followed this thread faitfully and now i really cant be bothered to read all 100 pages
 
soundstage, anyone else finding it strangely small?  im wanting to like these a little more than i am but these are reminding me greatly of the HJE900

No, as others suggested, you're mostly likely not fitting them correctly. Also, if you start complaining that they sound muffled or like they are playing through a tunnel--that's the fit as well.
 

 

[Inks]

try smaller tips if you get pressure even when they are far out.

 

[thenightman]

Mark,
 
I know exactly what you mean. Sure, these may be my first top-tier IEMs and I have to say that while the bass, MIDS, and treble are impressive... the soundstage is quite lacking. I guess I just didn't expect it to be this small. Most of the stage is completely in my head and not around me.

 

[MastahRiz]

I just got a pair of these MTPc's and if it hadn't been for all the great advice in this thread I probably would have returned them 10 minutes after first use. The tips and fit make all the difference. If these headphones don't sound amazing (yet) then just have patience and try other tips, try letting some time pass between trying other tips, and don't forcefully jam them in trying to hear better.
 
Patience!

 

[JoeyRusso]

Hmm, I don't find the soundstage small.  I find it scales nicely with the recording.  I was listening to Alice in Chains "Unplugged" last night and found the soundstage pretty spot on.  I also had a listen to the London Symphony Orchestra's performance of Symphony No. 5 in C Minor and found the soundstage immense. I'm finding it's directly related to the recordings.  Some sound better than others, but I think for the most part, the Copper's give the illusion of the soundstage as recorded or mixed.  Just my two cents.

 

[Anaxilus]

Synergy is important w/ gear.  Its also important w/ ears.

 

[rawrster]

Quote:

hmmm they are actually sitting pretty far out, the problem i think is the fit / pressure issue i am having with them.  im not giving up on them yet but i dont forsee me making this issue go away entirly as its exactly the issue i had with the ortofons.
 
an issue that became literally painful

What tips did you get in the loaner? Looks like you've had some bad luck with fit lately. I've only been able to have the triple flanges sound good to me with the rest not being as good. However hybrids work as well and I'm sure you have a bunch of those so you could try that. Other than that just experiment and hope it works out for you. It's a bit strange these would be painful as they are pretty average in housing size although they are heavier than most.

 

[Mad Max]

Quote:

Hmm, I don't find the soundstage small.  I find it scales nicely with the recording.  I was listening to Alice in Chains "Unplugged" last night and found the soundstage pretty spot on.  I also had a listen to the London Symphony Orchestra's performance of Symphony No. 5 in C Minor and found the soundstage immense. I'm finding it's directly related to the recordings.  Some sound better than others, but I think for the most part, the Copper's give the illusion of the soundstage as recorded or mixed.  Just my two cents.

x2

 

[shane55]

Quote:

Hmm, I don't find the soundstage small.  I find it scales nicely with the recording.  I was listening to Alice in Chains "Unplugged" last night and found the soundstage pretty spot on.  I also had a listen to the London Symphony Orchestra's performance of Symphony No. 5 in C Minor and found the soundstage immense. I'm finding it's directly related to the recordings.  Some sound better than others, but I think for the most part, the Copper's give the illusion of the soundstage as recorded or mixed.  Just my two cents.

Yes, as I believe any good IEM should.
One 'soundstage' for all recordings would indicate to me that it is imparting consistent atrifacts regardless of music.
 
shane
 

 

[MusicalChillies]

Quote:

Just remember that just because those tips work well in your ears, they may not work well in other listener's ears, especially if you've worn them out first.  

Originally Posted by Sinth 

 
Nowhere near it. Bassy, crystal clear and just a great listen. I actually used them on my IE8`s which was great but it just shows with the coppers how much of a better phone they are compared to the IE8.
Soundmatters arranged for me the super tips etc due to having an early version and was kind of hoping that they would be "thee tip".
I have already told him that unfortuantely as good as the super tips are, the Denon tips just show off the coppers to their potential.
As is with all of this, this is my opinion but, I can`t be that far wrong.
Awaiting my DBA02`s but have slim hopes they can beat what I am hearing.
You never know though.
 
Edit: Something along the lines of Massive Attack - Inertia Creeps, first class.
 
I know and stated that just above

Denon tips are flimsy from the off and still are.
 

 

[mark2410]

Quote:

No, as others suggested, you're mostly likely not fitting them correctly. Also, if you start complaining that they sound muffled or like they are playing through a tunnel--that's the fit as well.
 

i dont that its exactly that but i just dont really seem to be able to get these just perfectly so.
 
Quote:

What tips did you get in the loaner? Looks like you've had some bad luck with fit lately. I've only been able to have the triple flanges sound good to me with the rest not being as good. However hybrids work as well and I'm sure you have a bunch of those so you could try that. Other than that just experiment and hope it works out for you. It's a bit strange these would be painful as they are pretty average in housing size although they are heavier than most.

what tips, erm all of them i think.  i did look at the super foam things and the gels and im sure the gells wont suit me.  the foams ive yet to try but i think i may be forced to use a set of complys just to give them a foir listen to.  so far the pressure sensitivity in the fit is pushing these into the something i couldnt use long term catagory.  i cant have this being unwilling to pull them out onec ive got a nice fit becouse i know what a bother it will be to get it back. 
 
i thnk a decored olive may be in order

 

[JoeyRusso]

Sinth, I noticed we both have the Copper's and the PA2V2.  I love my PA2V2, but I was curious if you hear any difference with your iBasso vs. the PA2V2 using the Copper's. 

 

[Anaxilus]

The Monster foam hybrids are quite special.  Dare I say a better designed tip than the Comply w/ respect to the surface coating.