[caenlenfromOCN]

What tube amp? I'm using a Cavalli EHHA and Clarity Cap upgraded Bottlehead SEX with C4S. I don't think an amp will fix it though; if an amp "fixes" this headphone by taming the upper midrange, it must also tame the upper midrange for other headphones, which would make it fundamentally broken to me because that's the last thing many headphones, like the HD800, need.

Tubes offer a different sound signature in general... which is why people roll tubes so often, you may want to consider solid state if you don't want the actual music to be changed from what it was originally intended to sound like. My tube amp is in my sig.

 

[Ishcabible]

Tubes offer a different sound signature in general... which is why people roll tubes so often, you may want to consider solid state if you don't want the actual music to be changed from what it was originally intended to sound like. My tube amp is in my sig.

From my experience, tubes never change sound signature enough to tame a significant problem, only color the sound in specific ways like adding second order distortion to make bass a little thicker at the sake of cleanness and rolling off treble a bit or maybe even cleaning the haze a bit. I’ve never experienced a case in which a tube altered the sound by >1-2dB, much less 5dB which the M1060C needs. And on top of that it would need to fix the timbre which I don’t believe is possible. I love tubes, but I understand there’s only so much a tube can do. I built a SSMH when 19J6’s were $5 and honestly I don’t think it’ll do a great job with this because iirc it was rolled in the bass and lacked current.

 

[Hippocamp]

this sounds so much harsher and shouty to me than any of the like ten Grados I’ve owned in my life.

Hmmm. I don't hear shouty mids at all. In fact, my pair are slightly improved by a small boost to the mids. But, then, I would not be surprised at all if there are significant differences in sound between units. I had two of the original M1060s at the same time (mine and a friends), and there were easily noticeable differences between the two cans. It will be interesting to see multiple measurements as more people get them and measure them on other rigs.

Also, the assessment of these as "hilariously bad" seems to be based almost entirely on frequency response. Much more important to me (and I expect, to other people) is imaging and soundstage, at which these excel. One can easily fix small issues of FR with EQ.

 

[caenlenfromOCN]

Hmmm. I don't hear shouty mids at all. In fact, my pair are slightly improved by a small boost to the mids. But, then, I would not be surprised at all if there are significant differences in sound between units. I had two of the original M1060s at the same time (mine and a friends), and there were easily noticeable differences between the two cans. It will be interesting to see multiple measurements as more people get them and measure them on other rigs.

Also, the assessment of these as "hilariously bad" seems to be based almost entirely on frequency response. Much more important to me (and I expect, to other people) is imaging and soundstage, at which these excel. One can easily fix small issues of FR with EQ.

I intend to add a Schiit Loki to my chain someday as well. So yeah, will be fun to tinker with all my cans when that arrives.

 

[bjaardker]

@Ishcabible judging by your 90+ headphone review list, it looks like you put a lot of emphasis on midrange in your listening. Also, any whiff of hype around a headphone is immediately a knock on them to you.

Based on those 2 things, I could have told you that you probably could have saved your money on these. While they aren't bad in the mids, and IMHO have a nice warm yet clean sound for a planar, mids certainly are not a focus nor their best feature.

However to empirically assert that these are "Hillariously Bad" and then try to back that up with some frequency graphs that don't really depict much of anything can come across as combative to many of us who are finding very different results from yours.

 

[OldDude04]

Hmmm. I don't hear shouty mids at all. In fact, my pair are slightly improved by a small boost to the mids. But, then, I would not be surprised at all if there are significant differences in sound between units. I had two of the original M1060s at the same time (mine and a friends), and there were easily noticeable differences between the two cans. It will be interesting to see multiple measurements as more people get them and measure them on other rigs.

Also, the assessment of these as "hilariously bad" seems to be based almost entirely on frequency response. Much more important to me (and I expect, to other people) is imaging and soundstage, at which these excel. One can easily fix small issues of FR with EQ.

@Ishcabible judging by your 90+ headphone review list, it looks like you put a lot of emphasis on midrange in your listening. Also, any whiff of hype around a headphone is immediately a knock on them to you.

Based on those 2 things, I could have told you that you probably could have saved your money on these. While they aren't bad in the mids, and IMHO have a nice warm yet clean sound for a planar, mids certainly are not a focus nor their best feature.

However to empirically assert that these are "Hillariously Bad" and then try to back that up with some frequency graphs that don't really depict much of anything can come across as combative to many of us who are finding very different results from yours.

I'm enjoying mine very much. I hear no shouty mids. But as @Hippocamp said, the M1060 was known to be different pair to pair. I'm not shocked at the possibility of the M1060c having similar issues. Maybe @Ishcabible got his hands on a bad pair.

 

[Ishcabible]

Hmmm. I don't hear shouty mids at all. In fact, my pair are slightly improved by a small boost to the mids. But, then, I would not be surprised at all if there are significant differences in sound between units. I had two of the original M1060s at the same time (mine and a friends), and there were easily noticeable differences between the two cans. It will be interesting to see multiple measurements as more people get them and measure them on other rigs.

Also, the assessment of these as "hilariously bad" seems to be based almost entirely on frequency response. Much more important to me (and I expect, to other people) is imaging and soundstage, at which these excel. One can easily fix small issues of FR with EQ.

If each pair of headphones are unlikely to match another, wouldn’t you consider buying one of these extremely imprudent since you have no idea what you’re going to get? I’ve seen DMS measure his pair vs an HD650. Here it is:

This makes sense because this is what happens when you close basically any open headphone. It creates a cancellation null that also boosts 2kHz. The M1060C is no different. I wouldn’t expect other pairs to sound radically different so either you’re a lot more tolerant to 1-2k lifts than me or you’re listening for 3-5k which are dipped and they do sound dipped.

Also, while I do have problems with the rise, my biggest problem with the midrange is the timbre, which isn’t something you can fix with EQ. The rise exacerbates the timbral issues, but EQing that won’t make it go away, just make it less obvious. I had a similar problem with the iSine20. No EQ could save the midrange timbre and I tried really, really hard to fix that thing.

 

[Ishcabible]

@Ishcabible judging by your 90+ headphone review list, it looks like you put a lot of emphasis on midrange in your listening. Also, any whiff of hype around a headphone is immediately a knock on them to you.

Based on those 2 things, I could have told you that you probably could have saved your money on these. While they aren't bad in the mids, and IMHO have a nice warm yet clean sound for a planar, mids certainly are not a focus nor their best feature.

However to empirically assert that these are "Hillariously Bad" and then try to back that up with some frequency graphs that don't really depict much of anything can come across as combative to many of us who are finding very different results from yours.

I wouldn’t consider hype to be a deterrent; if that were the case, I’d hate the HD6X0 series, the ZMF headphones, or basically any headphone I like. I’m just not afraid to call a spade a spade and frankly think these are awful.

I don’t see how a frequency graph doesn’t depict much of anything; if anything I’d find it useful. I make a claim, I test it, I back it up with data.

 

[Hippocamp]

If each pair of headphones are unlikely to match another, wouldn’t you consider buying one of these extremely imprudent since you have no idea what you’re going to get? I’ve seen DMS measure his pair vs an HD650. Here it is:


This makes sense because this is what happens when you close basically any open headphone. It creates a cancellation null that also boosts 2kHz. The M1060C is no different. I wouldn’t expect other pairs to sound radically different so either you’re a lot more tolerant to 1-2k lifts than me or you’re listening for 3-5k which are dipped and they do sound dipped.

Also, while I do have problems with the rise, my biggest problem with the midrange is the timbre, which isn’t something you can fix with EQ. The rise exacerbates the timbral issues, but EQing that won’t make it go away, just make it less obvious. I had a similar problem with the iSine20. No EQ could save the midrange timbre and I tried really, really hard to fix that thing.

It's interesting that you mention DMS3. He does indeed note a similar elevation of the mids in his review (patreon available). But he then goes on to give a very balanced review, evaluating all of the factors that go into judging a headphone, and he comes up with a recommendation that is essentially the polar opposite of yours. So, clearly your evaluation of whether a headphone has any value whatsoever ("hilariously bad") depends mainly on specific characteristics of the mids (that's what led you to get rid of the ISine20's, too). Since this is not the only (or even the primary) issue of concern to most readers here, drawing general conclusions about a headphone based on this one criterion can be misleading (not to mention hyperbolic).

 

[caenlenfromOCN]

We all know audio is very subjective. majority of people think Beyer T90's are terrible, but I love above all other headphones for certain types of music. It is what it is

We should all take each others opinions with a grain of salt

 

[Ishcabible]

It's interesting that you mention DMS3. He does indeed note a similar elevation of the mids in his review (patreon available). But he then goes on to give a very balanced review, evaluating all of the factors that go into judging a headphone, and he comes up with a recommendation that is essentially the polar opposite of yours. So, clearly your evaluation of whether a headphone has any value whatsoever ("hilariously bad") depends mainly on specific characteristics of the mids (that's what led you to get rid of the ISine20's, too). Since this is not the only (or even the primary) issue of concern to most readers here, drawing general conclusions about a headphone based on this one criterion can be misleading (not to mention hyperbolic).

I hate to bring up conjecture, but you are aware that he is partnered with Monoprice for review units right? Is it not possible that he sugar coats things so as not to lose his relationship with Monoprice? Not to say relationships with manufacturers is inherently a bad thing, because that would be hypocritical of me, but it is one additional layer of skepticism that comes into play.

I mentioned that the bass is fine and does extend well, that is a positive trait is it not?

Midrange is a pretty integral part of most music and if a headphone fails so spectacularly at midrange, would that not be a pretty severe knock against a headphone? These specific characteristics of the midrange aren’t any weird uncommon traits, it’s how instruments sound versus reality. The goal for many people spending so much for headphones is realism, and these fail at that, which I believe is a pretty important thing to consider.

This isn’t exclusive to the M1060C; the LCD-XC also had this exact problem because it did basically the exact thing: take a driver that’s meant to be open and slap a closed cup on it.

 

[caenlenfromOCN]

I hate to bring up conjecture, but you are aware that he is partnered with Monoprice for review units right? Is it not possible that he sugar coats things so as not to lose his relationship with Monoprice? Not to say relationships with manufacturers is inherently a bad thing, because that would be hypocritical of me, but it is one additional layer of skepticism that comes into play.

I mentioned that the bass is fine and does extend well, that is a positive trait is it not?

Midrange is a pretty integral part of most music and if a headphone fails so spectacularly at midrange, would that not be a pretty severe knock against a headphone? These specific characteristics of the midrange aren’t any weird uncommon traits, it’s how instruments sound versus reality. The goal for many people spending so much for headphones is realism, and these fail at that, which I believe is a pretty important thing to consider.

This isn’t exclusive to the M1060C; the LCD-XC also had this exact problem because it did basically the exact thing: take a driver that’s meant to be open and slap a closed cup on it.

Just send it back for a refund and stop posting here then... if we don't like it we will send it back within 30 days, if we like it we keep it, simple as that.

 

[bjaardker]

This isn’t exclusive to the M1060C; the LCD-XC also had this exact problem because it did basically the exact thing: take a driver that’s meant to be open and slap a closed cup on it.

Except it's a completely different driver from the open 1060....so.....Ok.

 

[LasherV]

I just received mine today and have to say I'm in the "Polar Opposite" category. These things sound Amazing. I love my original M1060 and also my m560. I also really enjoy my 400i. All of them sound different and I pick them up for different music that I feel fits their strengths. This new M1060C is in that same category to me. It does things a little different and its a very pleasing kind of different to my ears. They are easer to drive than my original M1060 and the Bass has more kick drum style punch but still maintains great Sub-Bass depth. The Highs are slightly more rolled off than the original M1060 but not enough to ruin any sense of detail or clarity. I would call them Smoother, more Laid Back. I can already tell these will be less fatiguing to listen to than any bright Can. I like that. I have owned Grado RS-1s and they were way to bright for my taste. I honestly can't wait till I get 150+ hours of burn in on these to see if they even get better. From my experience all Planars benefit from Burn In. So far though, straight out of the box, these are absolute keepers. I have to wonder if some people will bash these just because Monoprice has in the past clearly took the designs from Audeze and hurt a company that many here love and respect. From what I understand these are a completely new driver design that Monoprice worked on based on customer feedback. This is IMHO a good thing as it shows they can do their own thing and hit a home run. And yes I would consider these a "Home Run". I hope they continue on that path. All I can say, if you are on the fence, is this: They have a return policy. At least try them yourself. For the money they are well worth a shot if you are on a budget and really want to try Planars. Never let anyone else tell you what you should enjoy or not enjoy. Sound is incredibly subjective. I for one love Tubes, many "Audiophiles" also love Tubes. Tubes however Color the sound. Does that make me or others less of an "Audiophile" because we prefer to alter the sound to our liking? I also use EQ. To some that is just blasphemy. I'm not offended by their opinion just because it differs from my own. I listen to my music for my personal pleasure and really don't give a crap if someone else disagrees with the way I do it. I for one am very pleased with my purchase and will report back later with some direct A/B comparison to my original M1060s. Not to influence anyone else as to what they should or should not buy but just to share my personal music experience with what I consider a great community of like minded men and women who for the most part have the same love of music and audio gear that I do. For now I'm going back to Rolling some Tubes and enjoying my new toy

Lasher

 

[Hippocamp]

I hate to bring up conjecture, but you are aware that he is partnered with Monoprice for review units right? Is it not possible that he sugar coats things so as not to lose his relationship with Monoprice? Not to say relationships with manufacturers is inherently a bad thing, because that would be hypocritical of me, but it is one additional layer of skepticism that comes into play.

With no evidence, this is a pretty irresponsible comment. I find DMS to be a very even-handed reviewer. In any case, given the downwardly spiraling direction of this conversation, I'm out.