Mod House Audio Tungsten - Planar Magnetic Headphones - Impressions and Discussion
Feb 25, 2024 at 10:12 PM Post #2,026 of 3,179
work with
decent volume
and driven properly are 3 different things- hence the confusion.

Safe side-
Ragnarok2
Flux Mentor
Nimbus
various Violectric especially v550 and v281
Ferrum Oor
Holo Bliss
soloist xgt

likely still good
Mjolnir3
Jotunheim2
K9 Pro
others
The Wells Audio Milo is also on the approved list according to Goldwerger's review. I met Jeff Wells at Capitol Audiofest in November and talked about the Tungstens with him and he claimed that the Milo was Zach from ZMF's favorite amp to listen to the Tungstens on (even more so than ZMF's own amp according to him), though idk how much of that was salesmanship since I was talking to him about buying one. :sweat_smile:
 
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Feb 25, 2024 at 10:12 PM Post #2,027 of 3,179
I love how you showed the Green line in the tungsten reaching the roof of the graph. What a strange headphone. It may as well be called a pair of portable speakers.
yeah thats the voltage curve but it's mA charts are tall AF too.
 
Feb 25, 2024 at 10:13 PM Post #2,028 of 3,179
The Wells Audio Milo is also on the approved list according to Goldwerger's review. I met Jeff Wells at Capitol Audiofest in November and talked about the Tungstens with him and he claimed that they were Zach from ZMF's favorite amp to listen to them on (even more so than ZMF's own amp according to him), though idk how much of that was salesmanship since I was talking to him about buying one. :sweat_smile:
oh, yeah, ive never heard one but by all accounts it might even be top of the list.
 
Feb 25, 2024 at 10:14 PM Post #2,029 of 3,179
Feb 25, 2024 at 10:20 PM Post #2,031 of 3,179
Feb 25, 2024 at 10:22 PM Post #2,032 of 3,179
@GoldenSound posted this in the modhouse tungsten measurements & official discussion thread in the headphones.com forum, which might be helpful:

"A bit of info on driving requirements and a few amp suggestions:
The tungsten have quite unique driving requirements in that they need a significant amount of voltage compared to other headphones. They don’t need all that much actual power or current (half the current of a Susvara for example), and so the challenge is not finding amps that can handle high current situations, but rather finding ones where the max voltage output is suitably high (and they have enough gain).
The problem is, amplifier power at 32 Ohm mostly just tells you about current, not voltage. To know the max voltage an amp can supply you ideally need a 300 Ohm power spec.
For most people listening around 85-90dB, you are probably going to want to look for amplifiers that can supply 20V output (1.3W @ 300 Ohm), and assuming you have a 4V output DAC, an amp with at least 14dB Gain.
This is a general application though. Those that listen quieter will be fine on amps with 10V output (0.33W @ 300 Ohm) or less, and those that listen louder or if you’re wanting to apply significant bass EQ will probably need to look for amps that can do 30-40V output (3.0-5.3W @ 300 Ohm).
I’ve listed some suggestion amps below but a couple points of note:
  • You do NOT need a speaker amp. You only need a speaker amp if you listen loud (and if a 20V headphone amp cannot get them to your listening level, you REALLY should be working on listening quieter if possible as you are listening at levels that will cause hearing damage over time)
  • There’s a lot of debate about whether amp X, Y, or Z can/can’t drive tungsten. But realistically, with the sensitivity of the tungsten, it’s 100% dependent on your listening level. An amp might work for someone else but not for you if you listen even just a few dB louder
  • Don’t worry if your amp is close to max on the volume. That’s actually a good thing. Being close to max means you have an optimised gain structure for your headphones/listening level. The pot being at noon for your listening level just means you’ve got some potential dynamic range you’re throwing away because you’re attenuating the signal a bunch as the gain is higher than you need.
  • The 32 Ohm power spec of an amp tells you nothing about whether they can/can’t drive tungsten.
  • Using a hotter output DAC will only help if your amplifier has a very high output voltage limit. In most cases, an amp will clip on high gain with a 4V DAC at somepoint, using a hotter output DAC just means that it’ll clip earlier. It isn’t unlocking any additional power/headroom
  • DON’T USE CLASS D AMPLIFIERS FOR HEADPHONES! Class D amplifiers are not always safe to use for a variety of reasons and will also often cause an unwanted treble boost. A number of people have recommended the Fosi amps as they’re affordable. These amps are potentially dangerous to your headphones and/or hearing to use on headphones due to their load dependent behaviour that massively over-amplifies high and ultrasonic frequency content when a high impedance load like tungsten is used.
Suggested amps for quieter listeners:
  • Honestly most headphone amps will work fine. Examples both at the more affordable end like the Topping A90, Singxer SA-1, Schiit Midgard etc and at the higher end such as the Earmen CH-Amp, Benchmark HPA4 and Zahl HM1 will all work absolutely fine. Voltage requirement scales logarithmically, so if you don’t listen all that loud, you probably don’t need to fret too much about your choice of amp. (I’m using the Zahl HM1 which has a 10.6V output limit just fine for instance)
Suggested amps with 20V output (suitable for most listeners):
  • Holo Bliss
  • Ferrum OOR
  • Topping A70 Pro
  • Fiio K9 Pro
Suggested amps with >30V output (suitable for loud listeners):
  • CFA3 (HeadAmp or DIY)
  • Benchmark AHB2 (requires preamplifier)
  • Soncoz SGP1 (requires preamplifier)
  • Woo WA33
There will of course be others, but general rule of thumb is look for amps that have power spec approaching 1.5W @ 300 Ohm."
Here is another review: Mentor Flux vs Schiit MJ3 on Tungsten SS.
 
Feb 25, 2024 at 10:26 PM Post #2,033 of 3,179
I use SGP1 with my Tungsten DS not because I like to listen to loud music. But because SGP1 has better bass control over headphone amps. With SGP1 sub bass goes lower, it has more body and punch even vs Hypsoor stack. Also highs are more airy and sparkly vs Hypsoor.
 
Feb 25, 2024 at 10:35 PM Post #2,034 of 3,179
Better be $8.5k sublime
Better be $18k plus $6k in tubes sublime, as I have the WA33 EE JPS with Taks and 417as. I'm expecting mid-fi with these headphones, but I hope to be pleasantly surprised. We shall see....
 
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Feb 25, 2024 at 11:11 PM Post #2,035 of 3,179
I use SGP1 with my Tungsten DS not because I like to listen to loud music. But because SGP1 has better bass control over headphone amps. With SGP1 sub bass goes lower, it has more body and punch even vs Hypsoor stack. Also highs are more airy and sparkly vs Hypsoor.
Is there anywhere that actually sells these? Looks quite unavailable.
 
Feb 26, 2024 at 12:28 AM Post #2,036 of 3,179
Better be $18k plus $6k in tubes sublime, as I have the WA33 EE JPS with Taks and 417as. I'm expecting mid-fi with these headphones, but I hope to be pleasantly surprised. We shall see....
there's nothing 'mid-fi' about this headphone (other than the price, which still isn't cheap) from what i am seeing. i suspect that you will be pleasantly surprised. i'd lurv to try it - maybe one day.
 
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Feb 26, 2024 at 2:34 AM Post #2,037 of 3,179
I've just bought a Aurallic TAURUS MKII. Which has it's balanced output wired for the AKG K1000 balance pin arrangement. Is this the same pin layout as the balanced cable you can order with the Tungsten. Or will I need a custom cable once I can manage to get a Tungsten?
 
Feb 26, 2024 at 3:07 AM Post #2,038 of 3,179
I've just bought a Aurallic TAURUS MKII. Which has it's balanced output wired for the AKG K1000 balance pin arrangement. Is this the same pin layout as the balanced cable you can order with the Tungsten. Or will I need a custom cable once I can manage to get a Tungsten?
It’s the same.
 
Feb 26, 2024 at 4:02 AM Post #2,039 of 3,179
I think this will illustrate the issue these headphones have more adequately. Unfortunately I haven't tried a pair yet. Maybe one day...

It's very easy to throw numbers into a typical headphone power calculator and make erroneous conclusions, but the problem is that we're not talking a non-changing DC voltage here, we're talking music, which is rapidly changing. Music is a rapidly variable voltage. It varies with a degree of current. These headphones require not just a significant amount of current, which is not unusual (see the DCA headphones) but it looks as if they ideally need speaker-amp-power levels of voltage swing. Heck, a single movie track with 20-30 Hz bass and the volume turned up a bit will max the voltage output of almost all regular headphone amps (it's easy to hit 105+ dB with bass without it sounding super loud). Since most headphone amplifiers are Class A/B, and lack the serious voltage swing that is ideal, I'd seriously look at speaker amps for these.

That's not to say you couldn't plug them into a $1k+ DAP and listen to simple jazz music at 80dB and be fine... It's just the same as saying that Dune is going to look (and sound) a heck of a lot better in a theatre than on your computer screen, and your desktop speakers wont do that deep rumble as well etc.

Screenshot 2024-02-26 at 11.36.34.png
Thx for the charts, do you also have one for the Expanse?
 
Feb 26, 2024 at 4:06 AM Post #2,040 of 3,179
Better be $18k plus $6k in tubes sublime, as I have the WA33 EE JPS with Taks and 417as. I'm expecting mid-fi with these headphones, but I hope to be pleasantly surprised. We shall see....
The good thing is. In case you don't like them they are probably the easiest headphone to sell right now.
 

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