[goldwerger]

Well according to headphones.com you need an amp that can deliver this kind of specs and power into a 135ohm and 155ohm load for the SS and DS versions of the tungsten respectively in order to listen at volume levels that we could consider could start damaging your hearing.

So according to this calculations, in theory my aune S17 can drive well enough both tungsten versions into the deafening loud/damage your hearing permanently levels, that it can drive them well enough, long enough and without over-heating is another question.

There maybe some caveats and asterisk to this calculator by headphones.com that maybe are escaping me at the moment.

the Headphones.com caluclator is greart and of course you got it right!

the main thing to consider is the Loudness you put in there. You put 101dB. Try to put 110 and then 115 and see how radically it the numebrs shift (from 5V / 0.2W to 28V / 5W).

Now if you listened at 115dB you'd quickly lose your hearing... and I myself like to listen at moderate or less than moderate volumes, which of course has massive impact on how mcuh power is actually needed.

The main reason why I like to put this high dB level is for headroom -- if an amp can easily drive the headphones at 115dB, the quality of its amplification at 80 or 90dB will be impacted (e.g. how quickly it can respond to trandients).

Think of driving a powerful car vs. a modest one - both can drive the legal speed limit. So in theory it doesn't matter. But the ease of drive on the powerful car, how quickly it accelerates, its grip on the wheels, etc. will be palpable.

 

[Erick Muller]

the Headphones.com caluclator is greart and of course you got it right!

the main thing to consider is the Loudness you put in there. You put 101dB. Tryu to put 110 and then 115 and see how radically it the numebrs shift (from 5V / 0.2W to 28V / 5W).

Now if you listened at 115dB you'd be quickly lose your hearing... and I myself like to listen at moderate or less than moderate volumes, which of course has massive impact on how mcuh power is actually needed.

The main reason why I like to put this high dB level is for headroom -- if an amp can easily drive the headphones at 115dB, the quality of its amplification at 80 or 90dB will be impacted (e.g. how quickly it can reponsd to trandients).

Thing of driving a powerful car and a modest one - both can drive legal speed limit. So in theory it doesn't matter. But the ease of drive on the powerful car, how quickly it accelerates, its grip on the wheels, etc. will be palpable.

Completely agree with you, but I was trying to also exemplify that if you curb your expectations and don't plan to run these cans at a dB level that continuous exposure to it would likely provoke hearing damage, you don't need a speaker amp or a headphone amp that's going to run into the thousands of dollars in order to drive them well enough and within reason imho.

 

[Erick Muller]

I was looking into Topping's new A70 pro amp specs and it seems to deliver the 20v that Ryan is recommending for his cans, so that's a relatively cheap alternative to buying another option that's going to cost you north of $1k usd at least in order to run them for a dedicated headphone amp.

 

[goldwerger]

Completely agree with you, but I was trying to also exemplify that if you curb your expectations and don't plan to run these cans at a dB level that continuous exposure to it would likely provoke hearing damage, you don't need a speaker amp or a headphone amp that's going to run into the thousands of dollars in order to drive them well enough and within reason imho.

I agree you don’t need to spend a lot

My point ithough is that a strong amp is needed to fully benefit from the Tungsten’s potential. Even listening at lower volume levels, the benefit of great responsiveness and driver control will provide a more enjoyable outcome.

 

[Erick Muller]

I agree you don’t need to spend a lot

My point is though is that a strong amp is needed to fully benefit from the Tungsten’s potential. Even listening to lower volume levels, the benefit of great responsiveness and driver control will provide a more enjoyable outcome.

Yep, that's why I'm looking into the A70 pro from Topping, gonna preamp it with my Aune S17 to pass it along some of it's sound characteristics and not have a very dry/clean/neutral sound presentation that topping usually goes for, it apparently gives the 20v the tungsten need according to the creator. so this might be the best cheap way to have a very good sound experience with the tungstens without having to expend thousands and thousands of dollars in gear.

 

[goldwerger]

Yep, that's why I'm looking into the A70 pro from Topping, gonna preamp it with my Aune S17 to pass it along some of it's sound characteristics and not have a very dry/clean/neutral sound presentation that topping usually goes for, it apparently gives the 20v the tungsten need according to the creator. so this might be the best cheap way to have a very good sound experience with the tungstens without having to expend thousands and thousands of dollars in gear.

Sounds promising, pls update

 

[Erick Muller]

Sounds promising, pls update

Need to get a tungsten first tho, LOL!!!!, buying the A70 it's not an issue for me but I also need to get my desk situation in order because right now my SMSL-SU8s is resting right on top of my Aune S17 and that's not optimal, haven't had any issues so far but I should get some solution that allows me to accommodate them more sensibly.

 

[mfgillia]

I agree you don’t need to spend a lot

My point ithough is that a strong amp is needed to fully benefit from the Tungsten’s potential. Even listening at lower volume levels, the benefit of great responsiveness and driver control will provide a more enjoyable outcome.

On the other hand... It's often stated that many amps perform objectively better with its highest dynamic range possible at close to or at maximum output using less attenuation.

So depending on the individual amp, and how much attenuation is applied, if any, then may not always be optimal to run some amps at lower levels.

 

[goldwerger]

On the other hand... It's often stated that many amps perform objectively better with its highest dynamic range possible at close to or at maximum output using less attenuation.

So depending on the individual amp, and how much attenuation is applied, if any, then may not always be optimal to run some amps at lower levels.

I'd never choose a weak amp just to avoid using the volume control..

these days, attenutators can be very well implemented. Better get the best engine you can and drive at the speed you want, then get a struggling engine just to avoid using the breaks.

my 2 cents

 

[vcd23]

It’s hard to tell now, because I can’t rely on memory than much. If you have Euforia already you’ll be good to go.
But if you’re just looking for a good amp for Tungsten I can recommend Soncoz SGP1. It’s a power amp so you’ll need a pre.

ok thank you! any other tube you would recommend tho? i thinking of getting into tubes

 

[mfgillia]

I'd never choose a weak amp just to avoid using the volume control..

these days, attenutators can be very well implemented. Better get the best engine you can and drive at the speed you want, then get a struggling engine just to avoid using the breaks.

my 2 cents

Very interesting - framing the issue around weak versus best where the former is the less powerful amp and the best (or best engine) appears to be somewhat defined as having more power on tap. Not sure that view is entirely consistent with my experience but your conclusion certainly is - i.e., the amp should be avoided if it's struggling to drive your headphones at the levels you prefer.

Also agree that attentuators / volume controls can be very well implemented but not to imply this isn't an issue today as some are known to have channel imbalance issues. Similar to dynamic range, this is also another issue that tends to be more problematic at lower volumes with more attenuation.

These issues are likely why many prefer to run their amps at full power bypassing the volume controls, when possible, even on more expensive amps. For example, operating Ferrum Orr in bypass mode disabling the built in potentiometer entirely.

 

[taipan254]

Very interesting - framing the issue around weak versus best where the former is the less powerful amp and the best (or best engine) appears to be somewhat defined as having more power on tap. Not sure that view is entirely consistent with my experience but your conclusion certainly is - i.e., the amp should be avoided if it's struggling to drive your headphones at the levels you prefer.

Also agree that attentuators / volume controls can be very well implemented but not to imply this isn't an issue today as some are known to have channel imbalance issues. Similar to dynamic range, this is also another issue that tends to be more problematic at lower volumes with more attenuation.

These issues are likely why many prefer to run their amps at full power bypassing the volume controls, when possible, even on more expensive amps. For example, operating Ferrum Orr in bypass mode disabling the built in potentiometer entirely.

I'm a big fan of autoformer volume controls (I used to own a Dave Slagle one, but sadly got lost in a move). I am now using a Chord Mojo 2 as a source, and use it to dive my amp (which has the volume pot disabled). It's generally a very good digital volume control as it employs (in my understanding) solid noise shaping to maximize dynamic range.

I definitely plan on going back to autoformers once my life (and system) settle down.

 

[mfgillia]

I'm a big fan of autoformer volume controls (I used to own a Dave Slagle one, but sadly got lost in a move). I am now using a Chord Mojo 2 as a source, and use it to dive my amp (which has the volume pot disabled). It's generally a very good digital volume control as it employs (in my understanding) solid noise shaping to maximize dynamic range.

I definitely plan on going back to autoformers once my life (and system) settle down.

Wasn't too familar with the term autoformer volume control before your post. Looks pretty cool and seems in-line with the pre-amp inside the Spring 3 from a definition found here and shared below in case others are interested too.

"Autoformer based volume control uses a transformer instead of a resistor or volume pot to raise or lower the volume. Proponents of autoformer based volume control point out that it transforms energy rather than burning energy off. Just like transformers on power lines, if you turn down the volume on an autoformer, you are lowering the voltage, but increasing the current. Turning up the volume raises the voltage and decreases the current. This lossless volume control concept leads to a more dynamic and less forced sound."

 

[Menkau-ra]

ok thank you! any other tube you would recommend tho? i thinking of getting into tubes

FV is fantastic with Tungsten. But only if you have a hot DAC like Wandla with extra voltage.

 

[vcd23]

FV is fantastic with Tungsten. But only if you have a hot DAC like Wandla with extra voltage.

FV? is that the schiit folkvanger?