Edit that! Got an e-mail from Sweetwater Audio saying that they couldn't sell these outside the USA so they refunded my money and I bought a pair off Amazon. No problem. I originally purchased them from Sweetwater as they were in stock and Amazon didn't have them in stock. Oh well, I just have to wait a few more days for them to arrive here in OZ.
To an extent that is true of the whole concept, is there a real need to have the amplifier incorporated into the headphone? I get that it can be a pain to have more than one device and all, but was this an actually problem?
It still is an actual problem, yes. Many devices still have excessively high output impedance (10-100 ohms, like smartphones, tablets, computers, as well as other devices with a headphone out, such as active desktop speakers). Some devices also have very weak output (notably, certain smartphones), but the built-in amp in the Mo-Fi will only help with that if it has enough gain (or if the headphone part is sensitive enough).
Being able to plug my self-amped Bose QC15s into any headphone out without fear of frequency response variations or the voltage divider effect (drop in volume), is very convenient for me.
It would be a lot better if ALL headphone outputs were proper, but building an amp into the headphones is simply a pragmatic solution to the problem.
Integrated amplifier makes perfect sense. In my experience, the PSB M4U2 were my "gateway" headphones to the head-fi world. I never heard of headphone amps until then; and with the PSB, the integrated amp makes such a big difference, especially in terms of dynamics. I used to switch back and forth between amped and non-amped mode all the time to hear the difference, and it was incredible. It was like a difference between 2D and 3D. I never heard headphones as tangible-sounding as the amped M4U2 before.
That made me look more into it, then I found head-fi, and then my bank account started to suffer...
So, if the amp is as well implemented, this can be good for the industry as a whole, as it will show many people who never even heard about our wierd little hobby what exactly an amp can do, and how much better music can be presented...
Thanks guys for all the info on these headphones. I am poised and ready place an order as these look like they are worth trying, but I'm in the UK and cannot find anywhere to purchase these from!!! Any ideas? Thanks in advance.
Honestly not understanding why people are comparing these to other cans not within the same price range.
Alpha Dogs are 600bucks, more than 70% increase in price.
These were obviously not aimed at the people of real audio enthusiast analytical-type nitpicking listeners but more like those who use portable devices a lot and are unsatisfied with the audio performance of said devices who DO have the money to drop 350 on headphones because they are the same who drop 600-800 bucks around every two years for a new phone.
I would suggest direct competitors of the Mofi are the likes of Sennheiser Momentum Over-Ear, B&W P7, AKG Y-series, Audio-Tech ANC9, Bose QC15 and Beats Studio. These are the headphones that compete for the same market.
If I started rattling off about how heavy they felt and imprecise and smeared the sound was compared to my Noble 4s, you'd all think I was crazy. Don't compare players of different games.
They aren't open because that'll completely kill the interest of anyone looking to commute with them.
Clamping force is large because the headphones are heavy. Not large means they slide around or flop back and forward.
Simple friction calculations.
Large clamping force requires large compressive forces through the outer lateral arms which are pin jointed (have a degree of rotational freedom) meaning they have a double effective length, so the buckling failure has to be countered with a sufficient cross sectional area moment of inertia.
Which means more weight.
Basically, it's like building a bridge just large enough to support it's own weight and the designed load. Structural failure vs over-design.
In this case, it's weight vs customers complaining of 'bad workmanship'.
That being said, I'll save up the 350 for these toward my continuing fund for the Kiwi or a pair of them.
I'm actually quite suprised (read: glad) that they didn't include a noise cancelling function.
"These were obviously not aimed at the people of real audio enthusiast analytical-type nitpicking listeners but more like those who use portable devices a lot and are unsatisfied with the audio performance of said devices who DO have the money to drop 350 on headphones because they are the same who drop 600-800 bucks around every two years for a new phone."
I have AD and they are good but how does that make me nitpicking listener? thats a bit harsh lad, I think they are cost effective, giving performance close to the big boys for a lot less money. so the comparison is a fair one in the following context, Mo Fi's need to get to 70% of the performance of the AD and that makes them great value for money and if some how they get closer than it is time to sell the AD and move over to the Mo Fi.
I nearly forgot do agree with the rest of what was said
I don't believe most smartphones have a built-in amp, (though I could be wrong?). In either case, it seems like you can run these in passive "ampless" mode just like any other headphone as well.
Aren't we, the population of head-fi, all nitpicking listeners?
We all here are constantly looking for ways to better reproduce sound according to our tastes no matter where we currently are.
This separates us from another market who are satisfied with above average.
I am unsure of how to quantify audio performance, let alone what is '70% better' than another headphone. It simply is a judgement of how much we ourselves value that increased or bettered experience compared to the value of our time in the form of money (disposable income/credit limits)
My $100 SE215s don't sound a tenth as good as my SE846s, all I can say is that there is a clear distinction and I was willing to put down that much cash for each.
RE: Double-Amping
When you come to understanding mainly how the linearity and slew rates of certain ICs can change according to how hard they're pushed, then an appreciation for how it could improve performance to let the 'weaker' component operate in its comfortable region rather than pushing it. A lot of performance ratings are not listed at max operating levels.
I don't believe most smartphones have a built-in amp, (though I could be wrong?). In either case, it seems like you can run these in passive "ampless" mode just like any other headphone as well.
Anything with a headphone jack has an amp in it. Not necessarily a good amp, mind you, but in order to make sound there must be some form of signal amplification going on inside the device.
It still is an actual problem, yes. Many devices still have excessively high output impedance (10-100 ohms, like smartphones, tablets, computers, as well as other devices with a headphone out, such as active desktop speakers). Some devices also have very weak output (notably, certain smartphones), but the built-in amp in the Mo-Fi will only help with that if it has enough gain (or if the headphone part is sensitive enough).
Being able to plug my self-amped Bose QC15s into any headphone out without fear of frequency response variations or the voltage divider effect (drop in volume), is very convenient for me.
It would be a lot better if ALL headphone outputs were proper, but building an amp into the headphones is simply a pragmatic solution to the problem.
To me the best place for an amplifier is in the headphones, in closest proximity and matched perfectly to the impedance, gain and fr characteristics of the driver as possible. It does make a lot of sense as long as the amplifier is indeed of a high quality which it very well may be. But logically this is only a true benefit if the signal remains digital as long as possible and to not have gain layered on top of gain which is the case accepting analog input. gives you distortion, loses, interference, and tonal change in twice the components enroute. This really needs a built in DAC as well and either a lightening or micro usb input. it would also be nice to have analog input as a second option which bypasses the dac. and in my dreams of where the future will take us a third option of airplay compatibility, or some form of lossless blue tooth. in my opinion this is where we will be in 5-10 years.
To me the best place for an amplifier is in the headphones, in closest proximity and matched perfectly to the impedance, gain and fr characteristics of the driver as possible. It does make a lot of sense as long as the amplifier is indeed of a high quality which it very well may be. But logically this is only a true benefit if the signal remains digital as long as possible and to not have gain layered on top of gain which is the case accepting analog input. gives you distortion, loses, interference, and tonal change in twice the components enroute. This really needs a built in DAC as well and either a lightening or micro usb input. it would also be nice to have analog input as a second option which bypasses the dac. and in my dreams of where the future will take us a third option of airplay compatibility, or some form of lossless blue tooth. in my opinion this is where we will be in 5-10 years.
These headphones have a face only a mother could love...
Very much appreciate Jude's review. Tough to accept it as objective. Just too darn sugary/positive as was stated previously.
Looking forward to head-fi quality real world feedback once owners have had a chance to live with these for a while....move in together and get past the puppy love.
I may be among the few, but I think they look great! However, I will not buy into the hype after 40 years as a business executive. Hype is hype and great products do no need to be hyped, they'll sell by word of mouth. Also, why do so many people keep saying, "They're even heavier than the HE-560"? The 560's weigh .5 pounds or 226 grams. That is almost no weight at all. If your head gets tired wearing 1/2 pound, it's time for a personal trainer.
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