sugarkang
500+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2004
- Posts
- 544
- Likes
- 35
These are all equally wonderful. Make sure you spend more than $500 on amp though.
[size=9pt]MY PHILOSOPHY:[/size]
[size=9pt]1. AMPS ARE FOR POWER. Many of the popular headphones discussed on this board need power that portable sources often cannot provide. The need for amps is not a scam. But let’s be clear on the purpose of an amplifier. It is for clean, undistorted power. Do not use the amplifier to change the source sound. That is much better achieved with an EQ and superior control. Clean, neutral headphone power can be had for $50. Anything above $100 is a waste of money unless you are buying for aesthetics. I admit it. Tube amps have a cool steampunk look to it. However, amps sound the same, cables sound the same, LAME V0 VBR MP3 and FLAC sound the same. (See disclaimer at the top)[/size]
[size=9pt]2. PRICE IS NOT QUALITY. The maxim: “You get what you pay for” is not always true. In headphone land, it is definitely not true. [/size]
[size=9pt]Hypothetical: Grado and Sony each spend $1,000,000 in research and development. [/size]
[size=9pt]Grado makes a total 1,000 headphones (by hand); sells at $2,000 each to rich Head-Fiers. [/size]
[size=9pt]Sony makes a total 100,000 headphones (by machine); sells at $50 each to non-audiophile consumers. [/size]
[size=9pt]Who made more money? Sony earned $4 million while Grado only earned $1 million.[/size]
[size=9pt]Yes, this is an oversimplification. [/size]
[size=9pt]Any economist will also tell you that this is basically true and it’s called “economies of scale.”[/size]
[size=9pt]3. BIAS IS RAMPANT: No one is immune to bias. If you can tell the difference between equipment, the price difference paid is justified. If you have to try really hard to tell the difference, then the price is not justified. The only way to know if there’s a difference is to a blind A/B test. To do it blind, keep all variables (especially volume) equal between equipment. Have someone else administer the test. If you don’t want to do the test and you want to pay more for equipment, that is your right to do so. The legal definition of that line of reasoning is called “willful ignorance.” It will not work as a valid defense in a court of law should you ever be accused of wrongdoing. [/size]
[size=9pt]Any drug that wants approval by the FDA in the United States must meet this basic test in clinical trials. [/size]
[size=9pt]No blind test = no proof it works = cannot claim FDA approval = nobody will buy your drug. [/size]
[size=9pt]1. AMPS ARE FOR POWER. Many of the popular headphones discussed on this board need power that portable sources often cannot provide. The need for amps is not a scam. But let’s be clear on the purpose of an amplifier. It is for clean, undistorted power. Do not use the amplifier to change the source sound. That is much better achieved with an EQ and superior control. Clean, neutral headphone power can be had for $50. Anything above $100 is a waste of money unless you are buying for aesthetics. I admit it. Tube amps have a cool steampunk look to it. However, amps sound the same, cables sound the same, LAME V0 VBR MP3 and FLAC sound the same. (See disclaimer at the top)[/size]
Agree with everything except the below. You can't get an E7 for less that $100 and its a fairly weak amp. The E9 is considered amazing power/dollar value for $130. I can tell a difference between my E7 and E9 with my D5Ks and they are pretty easy to drive. So I'm wonder what amp for $50 puts out enough power for me to take full advantage of my D5Ks? Yes I read your disclaimer and am just curious what you found for $50 that powers the HD-650?
Quote:
[size=9pt]1. AMPS ARE FOR POWER. Many of the popular headphones discussed on this board need power that portable sources often cannot provide. The need for amps is not a scam. But let’s be clear on the purpose of an amplifier. It is for clean, undistorted power. Do not use the amplifier to change the source sound. That is much better achieved with an EQ and superior control. Clean, neutral headphone power can be had for $50. Anything above $100 is a waste of money unless you are buying for aesthetics. I admit it. Tube amps have a cool steampunk look to it. However, amps sound the same, cables sound the same, LAME V0 VBR MP3 and FLAC sound the same. (See disclaimer at the top)[/size]
Agree with everything except the below. You can't get an E7 for less that $100 and its a fairly weak amp. The E9 is considered amazing power/dollar value for $130. I can tell a difference between my E7 and E9 with my D5Ks and they are pretty easy to drive. So I'm wonder what amp for $50 puts out enough power for me to take full advantage of my D5Ks? Yes I read your disclaimer and am just curious what you found for $50 that powers the HD-650?
[size=9pt] [/size]
[size=9pt]MY PHILOSOPHY:[/size]
[size=9pt]1. AMPS ARE FOR POWER. Many of the popular headphones discussed on this board need power that portable sources often cannot provide. The need for amps is not a scam. But let’s be clear on the purpose of an amplifier. It is for clean, undistorted power. Do not use the amplifier to change the source sound. That is much better achieved with an EQ and superior control. Clean, neutral headphone power can be had for $50. Anything above $100 is a waste of money unless you are buying for aesthetics. I admit it. Tube amps have a cool steampunk look to it. However, amps sound the same, cables sound the same, LAME V0 VBR MP3 and FLAC sound the same. (See disclaimer at the top)[/size]
Agree with everything except the below. You can't get an E7 for less that $100 and its a fairly weak amp. The E9 is considered amazing power/dollar value for $130. I can tell a difference between my E7 and E9 with my D5Ks and they are pretty easy to drive.
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/531352/art-headamp4-hd-650-dt-770-ah-d2000
Yeah, he is way off base here. I have a $100 DIY tube amp that I can make sound 10 different ways depending on the tubes and opamps I put in it.
You're greatly overestimating the performance of something like the ART amp you reviewed. I'm surprised no one brought it to your attention, but these are the specs:
Double blind A/B yourself with my $50 amp versus your favorite $1,000 amp and then come back and post results. As to the allegation that I am overestimating the performance, I'll just say that I owned a Meier Corda. I know what a good amp sounds like. Specifically, a good amp sounds like nothing. It provides power with a low noise floor. My $50 amp does everything the expensive amp does.
What cans did you own when you had the Corda, same as in the review? Anyways my problem is that having an underpowered amp skew may the results against high impedance phones, or more accurately penalize the HD-650 against its lower impedance opponents.
SUBMIT
You're right. I was not trying to spread misinformation. I have no opinions on tube amps either way because I have no experience with them. Review edited above to reflect this. All comments on amps are for solid state and readers should assume such.
Quote:Yeah, he is way off base here. I have a $100 DIY tube amp that I can make sound 10 different ways depending on the tubes and opamps I put in it.
Double blind A/B yourself with my $50 amp versus your favorite $1,000 amp and then come back and post results. As to the allegation that I am overestimating the performance, I'll just say that I owned a Meier Corda. I know what a good amp sounds like. Specifically, a good amp sounds like nothing. It provides power with a low noise floor. My $50 amp does everything the expensive amp does.
The hardest thing to drive properly without distortion is bass. I have 3 "neutral" headphone amps here. The Asus Xonar has a built in amp, the E5 and the Headamp4. There is no "color" distinction between any of them. According to your logic, I'm lacking the "power to drive." If that's true, you should also realize that the Headamp4 is MUCH more powerful than the E5, correct? So, then the Headamp4 should be head and shoulders above the E5 in sound as well, right?
It isn't. It's exactly the same. The only difference is how far I can drive volume levels. The E5 doesn't go that far. The Headamp4 goes way beyond normal listening levels. If that weren't enough, my signal is being amplified TWICE. I have the ASUS Xonar and the Headamp4 on one chain. One amp, three amps, it doesn't matter: they all sound the same.
Take the Pepsi challenge and blind A/B yourself. Otherwise, see my philosophy above.
Quote:You're greatly overestimating the performance of something like the ART amp you reviewed. I'm surprised no one brought it to your attention, but these are the specs:
Opamps sound different too, just read the opamp thread and the hundreds of people who have posted in it. Your solid state's all sound the same claim is just as weak. I think you will be fine if you just stick to the headphone comparison part of this thread, which I really am looking forward to.