microZOTL 3 by Linear Tube Audio. True High End Audio.
Jul 16, 2022 at 1:40 PM Post #376 of 1,183
Going to visit the LTA shop tomorrow to listen to the MZ2. Of course, I’ll check out the MZ3 while I’m there. For those of you that went from the MZ2 to the MZ3, what was the big change for you? I’m noting a 3x price differential, so I’m curious.
 
Jul 16, 2022 at 2:21 PM Post #377 of 1,183
Going to visit the LTA shop tomorrow to listen to the MZ2. Of course, I’ll check out the MZ3 while I’m there. For those of you that went from the MZ2 to the MZ3, what was the big change for you? I’m noting a 3x price differential, so I’m curious.
The MZ2 are an excellent buy. Better than most amps out there. The MZ3 are a little more of everything you hear from the MZ2 but easy to live with either.
 
Jul 16, 2022 at 3:25 PM Post #378 of 1,183
So how do you drive your Prima Luna? Can you isolate and A/B with the MZ3? If so, the MZ3 would only be pre for your speakers.
I bought the MZ3 primarily as a preamp, but I did do a lot of listening with it as an integrated. My speakers are ~100dB but I think the 16 ohm nominal impedance was the issue. The MZ3 is 1W at 4 ohms so realistically would only deliver 1/4W to my speakers. I never felt comfortable running the volume over 85 even though it was always crystal clear even at full volume. But it just seemed the bottom end lacked authority compared to my other amps. I tried volume matching a 1kHz signal and then listening to a playlist with some bassy tunes. I’m not saying my phone app is that accurate but a couple dB on the peaks backs up what I was hearing. The Aegir is fine, but the PrimaLuna is just better. The Saga+ also showed some bass roll off compared to the MZ3. I think the Saga+ has more impedance variations. I didn’t realize what was missing until I changed. It’s hard to know which unit is responsible for which part of the sound, but they play well together and apart. PrimaLuna is an easy recommendation though. If I had gotten the integrated instead of a power amp I may not have found the MZ3.

For tubes on the PrimaLuna I’ve stuck with EL34 because I don’t want to compromise those sweet mids. Some of the bigger tubes make trade offs to get more extension. I think the OEM were Shuguang, but are now Psvane which is what I’ve switched to, EL34C. I did a brief stint with 7581A but had a hard time keeping a full octet operational. The pair of 12AU7 input tubes make the most impact. I have RCA NOS there now and like them. I had a pair of NOS Brimar that got noisy in the PrimaLuna but sounded wonderful in the MZ3.

My tube rolling in general is more being open to happy accidents than searching for a particular sound. I’ve stuck with NOS 12SN7 types. I did test out some new 6SN7s and they were okay. It seems like most of the “premium” 6SN7s are big bottles and I don’t want to have to get the other top plate to accommodate them. For the small tubes I’ve tried a bunch with no bad results, My least favorite are probably the stock Gold Lion tubes, but they’re still pretty good.
 
Jul 16, 2022 at 10:23 PM Post #379 of 1,183
I bought the MZ3 primarily as a preamp, but I did do a lot of listening with it as an integrated. My speakers are ~100dB but I think the 16 ohm nominal impedance was the issue. The MZ3 is 1W at 4 ohms so realistically would only deliver 1/4W to my speakers. I never felt comfortable running the volume over 85 even though it was always crystal clear even at full volume. But it just seemed the bottom end lacked authority compared to my other amps. I tried volume matching a 1kHz signal and then listening to a playlist with some bassy tunes. I’m not saying my phone app is that accurate but a couple dB on the peaks backs up what I was hearing. The Aegir is fine, but the PrimaLuna is just better. The Saga+ also showed some bass roll off compared to the MZ3. I think the Saga+ has more impedance variations. I didn’t realize what was missing until I changed. It’s hard to know which unit is responsible for which part of the sound, but they play well together and apart. PrimaLuna is an easy recommendation though. If I had gotten the integrated instead of a power amp I may not have found the MZ3.

For tubes on the PrimaLuna I’ve stuck with EL34 because I don’t want to compromise those sweet mids. Some of the bigger tubes make trade offs to get more extension. I think the OEM were Shuguang, but are now Psvane which is what I’ve switched to, EL34C. I did a brief stint with 7581A but had a hard time keeping a full octet operational. The pair of 12AU7 input tubes make the most impact. I have RCA NOS there now and like them. I had a pair of NOS Brimar that got noisy in the PrimaLuna but sounded wonderful in the MZ3.

My tube rolling in general is more being open to happy accidents than searching for a particular sound. I’ve stuck with NOS 12SN7 types. I did test out some new 6SN7s and they were okay. It seems like most of the “premium” 6SN7s are big bottles and I don’t want to have to get the other top plate to accommodate them. For the small tubes I’ve tried a bunch with no bad results, My least favorite are probably the stock Gold Lion tubes, but they’re still pretty good.
Excellent. The drivers in the Z40 are RCA black plates in pre-amp tubes. And mullard in/out. I put in clear tops and Tele in/outs, but put a pair of mullars back in ont outs. The power tubes are el34 xf2... I have no desire to touch those. Yes, just made everything I had sound so much better. Incredible.
 
Jul 17, 2022 at 12:55 PM Post #380 of 1,183
OK, just got back from my visit to LTA. As most of you know, the staff are among the kindest and most accommodating in the business. Very grateful to LTA!

I brought my RME ADI2 DAC, my ZMF VO Ltd, and my laptop with lossless audio files. My goal was to really take a critical listen to the MZ2 and MZ3 and I had the luxury of being able to A/B/A/B them, listening to the same music that I had pre-selected and determined to be sufficient to put each amp through the paces.

FfZTQ5ih.jpg


I may go into much further detail, when I have more time to type and reflect, but listening to the MZ2 first was great. I listened to about 12 songs and truly loved what I was hearing. Very strong and balanced, and impressively good separation and staging. Then I plugged into the MZ3 and it nearly brought tears to my eyes (very close, as music can be quite the visceral experience, if certain songs have personal meaning to you). Well, after listening to a few tracks on the MZ3 and going back and forth with the MZ2, it was game over for me. The MZ3 is now a must-have.

The detail in the MZ3 upper-midrange and highs are really captivating. The distinction and clarity, crispness, and detail in percussion and strings was incredible. The bass was very tight and yet quite present and (again) visceral to experience. My ears can absolutely, undoubtedly, and clearly tell the difference between the two units (both powered with the LPS+). If I had never heard the MZ3, the MZ2 would be completely satisfying. I did not intend to entertain the MZ3, due to pricing, but now I'm completely sold. I'm going to likely wait, save a bit, and buy one in the coming months. Not that I've had tons of exposure to all the high end headphone amps out there, but this is hands-down the best I've ever heard. This will be an endgame level purchase.

z3Ziqbnh.jpg
 
Jul 17, 2022 at 6:05 PM Post #381 of 1,183
OK, just got back from my visit to LTA. As most of you know, the staff are among the kindest and most accommodating in the business. Very grateful to LTA!

I brought my RME ADI2 DAC, my ZMF VO Ltd, and my laptop with lossless audio files. My goal was to really take a critical listen to the MZ2 and MZ3 and I had the luxury of being able to A/B/A/B them, listening to the same music that I had pre-selected and determined to be sufficient to put each amp through the paces.

FfZTQ5ih.jpg


I may go into much further detail, when I have more time to type and reflect, but listening to the MZ2 first was great. I listened to about 12 songs and truly loved what I was hearing. Very strong and balanced, and impressively good separation and staging. Then I plugged into the MZ3 and it nearly brought tears to my eyes (very close, as music can be quite the visceral experience, if certain songs have personal meaning to you). Well, after listening to a few tracks on the MZ3 and going back and forth with the MZ2, it was game over for me. The MZ3 is now a must-have.

The detail in the MZ3 upper-midrange and highs are really captivating. The distinction and clarity, crispness, and detail in percussion and strings was incredible. The bass was very tight and yet quite present and (again) visceral to experience. My ears can absolutely, undoubtedly, and clearly tell the difference between the two units (both powered with the LPS+). If I had never heard the MZ3, the MZ2 would be completely satisfying. I did not intend to entertain the MZ3, due to pricing, but now I'm completely sold. I'm going to likely wait, save a bit, and buy one in the coming months. Not that I've had tons of exposure to all the high end headphone amps out there, but this is hands-down the best I've ever heard. This will be an endgame level purchase.

z3Ziqbnh.jpg

That's a great feedback right there, thanks! It's also very cool that you were able to take your stuff with you, get to know these two amps and compare them in a friendly environment. Good luck in reaching the goal that you now have :wink:
 
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Jul 17, 2022 at 10:21 PM Post #382 of 1,183
OK, just got back from my visit to LTA. As most of you know, the staff are among the kindest and most accommodating in the business. Very grateful to LTA!

I brought my RME ADI2 DAC, my ZMF VO Ltd, and my laptop with lossless audio files. My goal was to really take a critical listen to the MZ2 and MZ3 and I had the luxury of being able to A/B/A/B them, listening to the same music that I had pre-selected and determined to be sufficient to put each amp through the paces.

FfZTQ5ih.jpg


I may go into much further detail, when I have more time to type and reflect, but listening to the MZ2 first was great. I listened to about 12 songs and truly loved what I was hearing. Very strong and balanced, and impressively good separation and staging. Then I plugged into the MZ3 and it nearly brought tears to my eyes (very close, as music can be quite the visceral experience, if certain songs have personal meaning to you). Well, after listening to a few tracks on the MZ3 and going back and forth with the MZ2, it was game over for me. The MZ3 is now a must-have.

The detail in the MZ3 upper-midrange and highs are really captivating. The distinction and clarity, crispness, and detail in percussion and strings was incredible. The bass was very tight and yet quite present and (again) visceral to experience. My ears can absolutely, undoubtedly, and clearly tell the difference between the two units (both powered with the LPS+). If I had never heard the MZ3, the MZ2 would be completely satisfying. I did not intend to entertain the MZ3, due to pricing, but now I'm completely sold. I'm going to likely wait, save a bit, and buy one in the coming months. Not that I've had tons of exposure to all the high end headphone amps out there, but this is hands-down the best I've ever heard. This will be an endgame level purchase.

z3Ziqbnh.jpg
So do you only need a headphone amp? They are pre-amp... And the Z10...
 
Jul 18, 2022 at 9:16 AM Post #383 of 1,183
So do you only need a headphone amp? They are pre-amp... And the Z10...
Yes, looking for a headphone amp. The other offerings from LTA appear more pricey, beyond the MZ3.
 
Jul 18, 2022 at 4:43 PM Post #385 of 1,183
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Jul 31, 2022 at 3:28 PM Post #386 of 1,183
OK, just got back from my visit to LTA. As most of you know, the staff are among the kindest and most accommodating in the business. Very grateful to LTA!

I brought my RME ADI2 DAC, my ZMF VO Ltd, and my laptop with lossless audio files. My goal was to really take a critical listen to the MZ2 and MZ3 and I had the luxury of being able to A/B/A/B them, listening to the same music that I had pre-selected and determined to be sufficient to put each amp through the paces.

FfZTQ5ih.jpg


I may go into much further detail, when I have more time to type and reflect, but listening to the MZ2 first was great. I listened to about 12 songs and truly loved what I was hearing. Very strong and balanced, and impressively good separation and staging. Then I plugged into the MZ3 and it nearly brought tears to my eyes (very close, as music can be quite the visceral experience, if certain songs have personal meaning to you). Well, after listening to a few tracks on the MZ3 and going back and forth with the MZ2, it was game over for me. The MZ3 is now a must-have.

The detail in the MZ3 upper-midrange and highs are really captivating. The distinction and clarity, crispness, and detail in percussion and strings was incredible. The bass was very tight and yet quite present and (again) visceral to experience. My ears can absolutely, undoubtedly, and clearly tell the difference between the two units (both powered with the LPS+). If I had never heard the MZ3, the MZ2 would be completely satisfying. I did not intend to entertain the MZ3, due to pricing, but now I'm completely sold. I'm going to likely wait, save a bit, and buy one in the coming months. Not that I've had tons of exposure to all the high end headphone amps out there, but this is hands-down the best I've ever heard. This will be an endgame level purchase.

z3Ziqbnh.jpg
It says a lot that you weren't even planning to consider the MZ3 due to its price, but after hearing it you completely reversed yourself. I would describe such an experience as a "signature moment" in an audiophile's journey. I would humbly suggest that you enjoy it, savor it, and don't look back. I've had only 5 such moments during my 40+ year audiophile journey, so for me at least, they don't happen that often. Congratulations on yours.

(And kudos to Linear Tube Audio, of course.)
 
Jul 31, 2022 at 3:40 PM Post #387 of 1,183
The MZ3 will power even the Abyss TC and do a very good job of it. Been listening also using the Z10e with the Voce (new earpads) and the Abyss and a nice complement in sound, with both sounding excellent.
 
Jul 31, 2022 at 11:45 PM Post #388 of 1,183
@jamato8 Do you find the Z10E to be an obvious upgrade over the MZ3 or just a different flavor? I’d also like to know how you rate your Quicksilver in such lofty company. I’m still smitten with my Quicksilver, but I can’t help but wonder if these LTA amps offer a clear upgrade path if I ever want to get another tube amp.

You’re the perfect person to ask since you have the two LTA amps I would be considering as well as my current amp. I appreciate your insight!
 
Aug 1, 2022 at 1:32 AM Post #389 of 1,183
I don't have the experience with the others, but... I thought the Z3 was a bit expensive, but I was going to get it... The Z10 interested me... I blew past all of it and got a Z40. Final decision was to consolidate and be able to listen to my other gear with speakers. I have not regretted a single penny. End game for me.

Totally new to tubes. Mine had all NOS Mullard El34, RCA black plate for pre, and Mullard drivers. That was typical Mullard, sweet mids. I picked up some RCA clear tops for pres, and Telefunken for gain. Still a pair of Mullard because I can't live without what they do so well. Nirvana. I'm blabbering on because I tried some Mazdas for pre this weekend. Even more amazing top end, without loosing anything on the bottom. I finally got off my butt and added considerable old favorites to qobuz. Like listening to a whole new catalog.

All I can say is everything everyone says is true. Ad copy is accurate... All the slam and clarity of SS, all the magic of tube. Nothing I've heard has the low end this does, midrange magic, so much space, air, resolution... Crazy. I don't have a need/use now with current situation, but the only thing left is some endgame reference bookshelves in the future and I'll be good to go. My Utopias are the only HP I need. And the whole reason I went LTA was because the HP section isn't an afterthought. Pure magic HP or speaker. I just don't know how it sounds compared to Z3, or QS, ect... I just know LTA ZOTL is everything it claims.
 
Aug 1, 2022 at 10:59 PM Post #390 of 1,183
A favourite classic performance via a favourite classic headphone with new life:
851F927D-3F17-4880-9F1B-F699F02DE4B5.jpeg
D1D70378-2883-4035-B84C-7777052A3E8B.jpeg
[Audeze LCD-X, 2016]
 

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