Meze EMPYREAN - the First Isodynamic Hybrid Array Headphone
Mar 4, 2021 at 11:34 AM Post #8,866 of 12,974
From my impression with other amp TS5998 is more dynamic than 6n13s (euforia's stock) with better bass, treble and wider soundstage, but not sure if this is the case with euforia. But the key is TS 5998 give more power (watts) Empyreans apparently respond to positively.

@scottshields have You tried Tung sol 7236? May be also a good match.
I'm fortunate to have, from my research, what seem to be three top performers in power tubes: TS 5998, Bendix 6080WB, and TS 7236. I bought a lot power tubes for the Euforia from a great seller that included just about everything but the TS 5998's that I already had. After many hours of listening I definitely agree with the top three. To my ears the Bendix and TS 7236 are very similar and a significant step up from the rest I tried. Better everything really. The TS5998 to me has different Bass. To me tighter and cleaner and goes deeper. At first I though it was a decrease in the bass overall but I to me it's just cleaner if that makes sense. It keeps the positives of the other two, I just prefer the bass from the 5998.

I did notice after installing the 5998's with the stock drivers things got a bit harsh in the treble to me. They are good tubes but I swapped for the CBS 5692's I have now and I'm in heaven. They smoothed out the edges for me and improved the soundstage and especially imaging to my ears.
 
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Mar 4, 2021 at 12:45 PM Post #8,867 of 12,974
I'm fortunate to have, from my research, what seem to be three top performers in power tubes: TS 5998, Bendix 6080WB, and TS 7236. I bought a lot power tubes for the Euforia from a great seller that included just about everything but the TS 5998's that I already had. After many hours of listening I definitely agree with the top three. To my ears the Bendix and TS 7236 are very similar and a significant step up from the rest I tried. Better everything really. The TS5998 to me has different Bass. To me tighter and cleaner and goes deeper. At first I though it was a decrease in the bass overall but I to me it's just cleaner if that makes sense. It keeps the positives of the other two, I just prefer the bass from the 5998.

I did notice after installing the 5998's with the stock drivers things got a bit harsh in the treble to me. They are good tubes but I swapped for the CBS 5692's I have now and I'm in heaven. They smoothed out the edges for me and improved the soundstage and especially imaging to my ears.

Thanks, very helpful. All that tubes seem to be very neutral (not warm), which I agree suits Meze well. I presonally have both TS You mentioned and fully agree. Never tried Bendix. I would add one more tube to the trio You mentioned: Westinghouse 421a. This is a Holy Grail of 6080/6as7g family and cost a fortune. I have never tried it but reading descriptions it is seems to be close to TS 5998.
 
Mar 4, 2021 at 7:04 PM Post #8,868 of 12,974
Amp that doesn’t roll off the top end that isn’t sterile that keeps analog sound through out the lower the noise floor which is beyond what you can hear bring the Empyrean up more. Even a noise floor you can not hear can effect the detail on the Empyrean. I speak to Jeff from Wells Audio and he explained how the noise floor effects detail. I’ve reached new heights on the Empyrean. Went through many of amps and the Reference Milo was the best.

Nice to get some good comments on what matters about amps.
I agree fully about the noise floor and very low level detail, but I think this also affects tonality. Arthur Salvatore gives good comments about this on his interesting web site. I like a lot of what he says generally (not all!!!), well worth a read.
Very low level detail may go some way to explaining this great paradox in hifi; I have had many amps, my SET amp is the worst measuring one of all in every way, but by far the best sounding!
A good amp perhaps needs to handle say 1 watt while at the same time, handling well under a milliwatt.

Different folks have different ways to get the noise floor right down and give good low level detail. Actually it's more than just the noise floor, as detail can be handled well at levels way below say some clean mains hum. It's dirty noise that matters, I think. So how to get rid of the dirt?
I give my way, not that I can say it's best, but it is OK. Mostly, it's a matter of the power supply as follows.

. valve rectifier; solid state rectifiers add 'dirt'
. no voltage regulation, as (depending how it's done) it can sometimes add 'dirt'
. low resistance chokes; this makes up for the lack of regulation to some extent
. no electrolytic caps; film/oil caps only
. no paper in oil caps; my choice, many will disagree, but I have found some to lose low level detail and transparency
. no big caps; say 50uF or so at most; use enough chokes to give enough smoothing (3 stages in my headphone amps)
. no fancy electronics like gyrator circuits or electronic choke equivalents
. the power supply to be tuned for fast and clean transient response; a tendency to resonate gives, guess what, more dirt.

Get this right and a pure clean PSU really does contribute to detail, tonality, and the non sterile, analogue sound mentioned.
OK, there is more to it; but in many years designing and building valve gear, I have found the power supply to be about the most important factor.
 
Mar 5, 2021 at 3:33 AM Post #8,869 of 12,974
I have had many amps, my SET amp is the worst measuring one of all in every way, but by far the best sounding!
This is the beauty of audio:) Ultimately it can not be measured. this is an art:)

. valve rectifier; solid state rectifiers add 'dirt'
This is interesting. PSU is very important, even I can tell because I rolled some rectifiers tubes an amps I had and results were astonishing. However, some of the widely recognised amps do not have tube PSU: Euforia or La Figaro 339 to name a few. The amp I am using currently Ayon Ha 3 is also solid state recifier. I was told solid state rectifier gives well define bass, which is good for Meze Empyrean. What is real difference between solid state/tube rectification with respect to sound?
 
Mar 5, 2021 at 12:36 PM Post #8,870 of 12,974
This is the beauty of audio:) Ultimately it can not be measured. this is an art:)


This is interesting. PSU is very important, even I can tell because I rolled some rectifiers tubes an amps I had and results were astonishing. However, some of the widely recognised amps do not have tube PSU: Euforia or La Figaro 339 to name a few. The amp I am using currently Ayon Ha 3 is also solid state recifier. I was told solid state rectifier gives well define bass, which is good for Meze Empyrean. What is real difference between solid state/tube rectification with respect to sound?
Some more comments as you asked. Firstly, even though I may write as if black and white, in fact I'd say it's more like shades of grey.

The ideal rectifier does not exist.
Ideally it would start to conduct with the slightest forward voltage; it would have zero effective resistance; and it would turn on and off completely cleanly.

The amp designer has to accept the shortcomings and take steps to minimise the problems, and develop his item to get good sound. There is a name for this process; engineering!
The amps quoted above, and many others besides, have been very well engineered and I have complete respect for their designers.

I'm not an expert in the subject but here goes about the differences.

Solid state rectifiers have the problem that they do not start to conduct until the voltage across them reaches a threshold (about 0.6V); then they turn fully on rapidly. This gives a sharp transient; the current flow will be jerky as a rough term. This has quite a lot of rather nasty high frequency content (hence the term 'dirt'). A good power supply will suppress most of this, and results can be very good. But perhaps not the ultimate in terms of lowest possible noise floor.
Also, when a SS rectifier turns off, it can generate a reverse spike, again with nasty high frequency content. Schottky diodes minimise this, and sometimes small capacitors across the diodes are used to kill it. Again, results can be good; but perhaps not the ultimate.

Valve rectifiers start to turn on gently as soon as there is a forward voltage; and also they turn off cleanly. This means they are clean (no HF spikes, no dirt). Hence the generally good tonality and sound quality. But they have a drawback; unlike the SS diodes, the voltage drop is not constant but increases with the current. In effect they have an internal resistance. This can result in compression of the sound. This may also affect the bass, as users mention some loss of bass quality.

A good designer will work round these problems to minimise them - I won't claim to be more than half good :wink: but I do OK. From advice of Tube DIY Asylum I have found damper diode valves with low voltage drop; and sometimes I use them in parallel to reduce the equivalent resistance.

Valve rectification costs quite a lot as usually a larger mains transformer is needed, as well as the other extras.
Remember that every £1 on components has to add £10 to the selling price and now you can perhaps understand the designers' problems and choices. Given these constraints, I'd say they do very well to achieve a good compromise giving the fine quality they do at affordable prices.

Tastes and preferences also come into it. Myself, as you probably know, with my liking for gentle jazz and female vocals, I want to hear Halie Loren and Laurie Allyn etc in my room; hence my love of valves. Others may validly prefer a good valve amp with SS rectification.

My kind of virtually no compromise PSU means say another £50 on the mains transformer, say £150 on chokes, perhaps £100 on caps and other bits. This would add perhaps £3000 to the cost of your amp .... no wonder it is rare. But very, very nice sounding, I assure you.
 
Mar 5, 2021 at 2:14 PM Post #8,873 of 12,974
And anyone tried Empy on CMA Twelve? Should go alright?
I've tried it on a Questyle CMA 400i and it was wonderful. The CMA Twelve is very similar so I think it would work the same if not better.
 
Mar 5, 2021 at 3:21 PM Post #8,874 of 12,974
Any guesses as to what this is?

Limited edition colorway?
New SKU?
Updated colorway with new tuning?

In any case we'll find out on March 8th.
 

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Mar 5, 2021 at 5:03 PM Post #8,877 of 12,974
The text with it says "celebrating our love of art"

So guessing just a colourway mate.
I'm probably over wishing but I was hoping for a different tuning on this new colorway and a price drop on the two existing SKU's.
 

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