[Supermessi]

Well, i generally like the Utopias and knew that detail retrieval is one of their strengths so did not expect them to be surpassed on that front by other headphones. I was on the lookout for a better bass performance. I already heard the LCD4, LCD3 and LCD2 and while i liked them i found them a little too dull sounding. I then found out about the empyrean and there are a lot of remarks that it handles bass better than the Utopia and has a lively warmer sound. It is definitely warmer and maybe a little bit easier for longer listening, not sure about them being more lively, but sofar in bass they seem a little less performing than Utopia. Anyways i will give them more time and good to know they do fine with Kann Alpha

If you are looking for a better bass performance from Empys, try the alcantara pads. With alcantara pads, Empys' bass sounds deeper, tighter and the upper lows and lower mids are not elevated that much comparing to leather pads, so you feel the bass is more precise and has more details. The highs are also slightly brighter and feel more energy to it. The strength of the leather pads is the mids, vocal on leather pads sounds so juicy and alive. I don't have much complaint about Empy's bass, with alcantara pads, it sounds pretty neutral to my ear. I hope the pads MEZE is working on will eventually deliver the lows and highs from alcantara pads and the juicy vocal from leather pads. Maybe it would be the leather pads with a bunch of holes on it like the pads of Utopia.

 

[Supermessi]

I don't think burn-in will do much for you. It is more likely to burn-in your brain to get used to the sound. And it usually works very well...

 

[moemoney]

I don't think burn-in will do much for you. It is more likely to burn-in your brain to get used to the sound. And it usually works very well...

I have to respectfully disagree with your statement regarding Brain burn-in, It’s a known fact that the empy require a long break-in, when I first purchased mind 3Xs, I packed them up to return them and get my money back, but keep reading in theses pages to give them more time. So I put them on the AK SP1000 for two weeks only to play them on the main system for 30 minutes to an hour every day or two unit that one day the sound just kick in. IMHO there is brain burn-in but with this headphone that’s not the case. It’s almost like buying new tubes, you just can’t judge them the same day you install them into the amplifier. I’m not trying to often you or your opinion, it’s just after 40+ years in this hobby some thinks never change.

 

[Arcayne]

Not a lot, now 3 hours
When listening to neon pattern drum by jon hopkins the difference is huge i am afraid. The empyreans sound thinner also with regards to the bass. Actually they sound great but when i put on the same track and then the utopia the difference is huge. It is a very punishing recording and especially the sound from 50 seconds to 1.45 is worlds apart...really bummed because i bought them to get a fuller sound, more bass rich sound, they struggle with that part, if you listen to that same part with utopias (and same arche) the depth and fullness of sound is a lot richer on utopia, there really is depth to the sound, a 3 dimensionality thats not there with empy.
I thought empys did not need break in? Anyways not unhappy at all, still great sounding and i would not have known if you listen to the same song back to back on different phones, still thought my experience would be the other way around

This honestly sounds like you got a DUD Empyrean. No chance the Utopia sounds richer and deeper. No chance at all.

 

[scottshields]

This honestly sounds like you got a DUD Empyrean. No chance the Utopia sounds richer and deeper. No chance at all.

I have to agree with @Arcayne. I'm relatively new to the headphone audiophile world but I've not heard anyone say that the Empy bass is lacking under any circumstance. From what I understand, and my experience as an Empy owner since September the "house" sound for Meze is laid back for long listening session with no fatigue. Definitely on the warm side of things. That said the bass is "the" thing that's most likely to make me smile when listening. I've not heard a Utopia but there are many reviews that indicate that the bass on the Empy is very very good. I've heard it with:

- Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital
- iFi idsd BL
- Schiit Bifrost2 -> Lyr3, and
- Bifrost2 -> Feliks Euforia AE

And Bass light is not something I would ever say about the Empy in any of these chains. My other headphone reference point is the Klipsch HP-3. These are also great for bass but also V shaped and therefore somewhat fatiguing due to the boost in the highs. The bass on the Empy is actually better to my ears than the HP-3. It should be as the price is considerably more. If the bass is making you frown seems something is off.

 

[Razza1974]

Now I am wondering.......the sound is good, i dont feel it's broken, don't get that impression, but I dont know how an Empyrean should sound......
But listening to new life baby paris from Mala to test bass, again the Utopia sounds more full in bass, I have to increase the Arche from 25 to 30 on the Empy to get it fuller sounding. The dub bass is thin on the Empy but the "oomph" bass part sounds comparable to Utopia not better. The extension is better on Utopia and i thought the empy's were more "wooly"
Listening to Mountains on the Interstellar soundtrack the Utopia blows you away, definitely more bass impact on the Utopia, but it does not sound bad on Empy either (if thats possible with that track to ever sound badly).
Are there any other people who own both Utopia and Empyrean and can compare?

 

[Razza1974]

Now I am wondering.......the sound is good, i dont feel it's broken, don't get that impression, but I dont know how an Empyrean should sound......
But listening to new life baby paris from Mala to test bass, again the Utopia sounds more full in bass, I have to increase the Arche from 25 to 30 on the Empy to get it fuller sounding. The dub bass is thin on the Empy but the "oomph" bass part sounds comparable to Utopia not better. The extension is better on Utopia and i thought the empy's were more "wooly"
Listening to Mountains on the Interstellar soundtrack the Utopia blows you away, definitely more bass impact on the Utopia, but it does not sound bad on Empy either (if thats possible with that track to ever sound badly).
Are there any other people who own both Utopia and Empyrean and can compare?

the bass kicks definately sound less impactfull on Empy

 

[k3kz]

Now I am wondering.......the sound is good, i dont feel it's broken, don't get that impression, but I dont know how an Empyrean should sound......
But listening to new life baby paris from Mala to test bass, again the Utopia sounds more full in bass, I have to increase the Arche from 25 to 30 on the Empy to get it fuller sounding. The dub bass is thin on the Empy but the "oomph" bass part sounds comparable to Utopia not better. The extension is better on Utopia and i thought the empy's were more "wooly"
Listening to Mountains on the Interstellar soundtrack the Utopia blows you away, definitely more bass impact on the Utopia, but it does not sound bad on Empy either (if thats possible with that track to ever sound badly).
Are there any other people who own both Utopia and Empyrean and can compare?

I dont know the Utopia too well, heard it in a shop for a few hours. Its bass didnt stand out too much to me...
But fwiw, Empyrean has plenty bass quantity, but doesnt have excessive bass impact/slam or definition. Paired with the midbass hump (200hz, but that got a lot better with run in), to me that makes the bass an aspect where the Empyrean, while more than good and plenty fine for my tastes, is not the cream of the crop. Other HPs (Audeze springs to mind) can do these aspects of bass better.

Fleetwood Mac - Albatross is another track where this is easily identifiable. On Audeze HPs the texture of the bass instrument is defined and detailed and the bass still is really big, while on the Empy the bass notes drone and blend. Got better with time and with a better cable/amp, but still lags behind the ultimate basshead hps a bit.

To your question though: I feel like Empy should be at least on-par if not superior to the Utopia in terms of bass/sub-bass quantity. Utopia might well have an edge in terms of slam and speed (which is the primary trait ppl cite about Utopia in general: it being "hot, in your face, intense").

 

[Ichos]

Honestly I can't find the Empyrean bass lacking in speed or definition or decay.
I have compared them to Utopia , Clear and Sennheiser HD800S and all of them compared sound rolled off and lean.
May the units you have aren't properly burned in or a bad amp pairing.

 

[Razza1974]

Honestly I can't find the Empyrean bass lacking in speed or definition or decay.
I have compared them to Utopia , Clear and Sennheiser HD800S and all of them compared sound rolled off and lean.
May the units you have aren't properly burned in or a bad amp pairing.

Dont think its bad amp pairing, the arche has excellent sound. It should easily be able to drive empyrean if it can handle utopia.
The sound is just flatter, i felt this also with audeze headphones ( to a greater extent) and would not mind this if the trade off is that the bass is fuller. But that seems to not be the case.
I took the flatness as a characteristic of planars. Now the emp is brighter (than audeze), vocals stand out more (but not better) than with utopia but that seems a consequence of "more happening" with utopia and a more relaxed (but flatter) presentation with empyreans.
My expectation was that it would be this way but that there would be an immediate fuller presence of bass with the empy. But that isnt the case, the overall sound is "thinner", with less bass but also less presence of the higher spectrum of sound. Overall it does not sound out of balance or lacking but i am surprised because in general empys are praised for better bass but less detail and tonality in the upper range compared to utopia. I wonder how many that claimed this difference have really been able to test them directly. I am surprised, the utopias have more bloom than the empys, the bass envelops you more just like the rest of the soundspectrum. Gonna listen some more

 

[k3kz]

Honestly I can't find the Empyrean bass lacking in speed or definition or decay.
I have compared them to Utopia , Clear and Sennheiser HD800S and all of them compared sound rolled off and lean.
May the units you have aren't properly burned in or a bad amp pairing.

I doubt it re: Amp (TT2, which is considered a good pairing) or burn-in (have had it since May '19).
And the quantity and extension of the bass is perfectly fine to me (actually, it's a lot), as I said. It is just a tiiiiny bit boomy and less defined/impactful than say an LCD-4. Bit more "wet" than "dry".

Only explanation would be that my/his Empy is either defective or that (as many reviewers and owners on here have said) that it is just an 8/10 on bass, where some Audeze/Abyss HPs are 9/10 or 10/10. And that is fine, as those are more expensive as well.

To me, Empy's main main strength is a lush/warm/enveloping/relaxing mid-range, which makes it a better long-term option to me than super-airy/transparent analytical HPs (HD800S, most Hifimans), Bass monsters (some Audezes, Abyss 1266 et al) or hyper-engaging/forward detail monsters (Utopia).

@Razza: Hm. I am surprised you'd say that planars in general have flatter bass. That I also have experienced differently.

 

[Ichos]

As I wrote before never heard Abyss or LCD4.
My comparison is to the headphones mentioned in my previous post.

Anyway sound perception is subjective from one point and further.
So maybe the Empyrean is not your headphone.

For example if you ask me the Utopia as the HD800S are out of tune.
So as the timbre is off and certain instruments not sound natural and life like I don't care about detail retrieval and other technicalities.
I listen to music , don't analyze it.

 

[k3kz]

As I wrote before never heard Abyss or LCD4.
My comparison is to the headphones mentioned in my previous post.

Anyway sound perception is subjective from one point and further.
So maybe the Empyrean is not your headphone.

It definitely is my headphone I love it, I just feel that it has strengths and weaknesses. Biggest strength = midrange, slight weakness = bass definition, neutral-very good = top end.
As long as I don't encounter something significantly better I am glad that I have found such a good overall package at a slightly less outrageous price point than other totl HPs.

/e: Very important point: I use the alcantara pads

For example if you ask me the Utopia as the HD800S are out of tune.
So as the timbre is off and certain instruments not sound natural and life like I don't care about detail retrieval and other technicalities.
I listen to music , don't analyze it.

100% agree. The first couple listening sessions with the Empyrean I had multiple situations where I wanted to listen to one particular song to "see how it sounded" and before I noticed, I had listened to the entire Album. Never had that happen to me before.

 

[Razza1974]

I doubt it re: Amp (TT2, which is considered a good pairing) or burn-in (have had it since May '19).
And the quantity and extension of the bass is perfectly fine to me (actually, it's a lot), as I said. It is just a tiiiiny bit boomy and less defined/impactful than say an LCD-4. Bit more "wet" than "dry".

Only explanation would be that my/his Empy is either defective or that (as many reviewers and owners on here have said) that it is just an 8/10 on bass, where some Audeze/Abyss HPs are 9/10 or 10/10. And that is fine, as those are more expensive as well.

To me, Empy's main main strength is a lush/warm/enveloping/relaxing mid-range, which makes it a better long-term option to me than super-airy/transparent analytical HPs (HD800S, most Hifimans), Bass monsters (some Audezes, Abyss 1266 et al) or hyper-engaging/forward detail monsters (Utopia).

@Razza: Hm. I am surprised you'd say that planars in general have flatter bass. That I also have experienced differently.

I did not mean to say the bass of planars is flatter, it is fuller, overall the total sound to me was flatter which i did not like, thats why i did not get an Audeze headphone. At the same time I dont like too bright (why i did not go for a Sennheiser). So i expected the Empys to be flatter overall to the Utopias (but more vivid then Audeze, and they are) but I did not experience this fuller presence of bass on the Empy.

 

[Razza1974]

As I wrote before never heard Abyss or LCD4.
My comparison is to the headphones mentioned in my previous post.

Anyway sound perception is subjective from one point and further.
So maybe the Empyrean is not your headphone.

For example if you ask me the Utopia as the HD800S are out of tune.
So as the timbre is off and certain instruments not sound natural and life like I don't care about detail retrieval and other technicalities.
I listen to music , don't analyze it.

I am not analyzing either, not an audio purist, not an analyser, but I am just surprised that I notice such a difference, and opposite to what i expected from reading about the empyreans. They clearly convey less detail and are a bit flatter, i do not mind this, i expected this and it makes for somewhat easier listening. Just the fact that bass is delivered more powerful on my utopia surprises me. I dont think they are broken (how can they sound so good while being broken, i am not an expert, so if this is possible let me know ?) because they sound balanced. Anyways I am just trying to get an idea if this is what is to be expected or not. Not critisizing one or the other headphone, or preferences. Thanks