[jlbrach]

dont forget the abyss tc which has the huge soundstage of the 800 but with bass and detail and a speaker like performance

 

[LCMusicLover]

dont forget the abyss tc which has the huge soundstage of the 800 but with bass and detail and a speaker like performance

If you’re talking to me, I can’t forget them ‘cuz I’ve not heard them.

 

[jlbrach]

speaking out loud

 

[hypnos1]

Not trying to be negative -- just trying to characterize what I hear from these cans. When I contrast reference vs fun I'm comparing tonality. I'd say my HEKv2 are the most referency (is that a word?) headphones I have. Utopia and Auteur lean a little bright, Utopia more so. Ether 2 are a bit rolled off in treble.

To my ears, on my equipment, listening to my favorite tunes, leaning just slightly to the left...ok, maybe that last one is a bit silly...I hear Empy as somewhat forward in the mid bass to lower mid region. And I also hear them slightly recessed in the treble.

So you can ignore Still more 'fun' than musical and go with leaning warm, with the bass feeling a little thick and get what I was trying for.

Mid-bass.

Also, while I didn't mention it in that post, I also find the headstage imprecise. Fairly big, and quite enveloping (that is, wraps around my head, rather than just sitting out in front of me). At least as big as Auteur, and bigger than Utopia ... by a lot. But the cues of exactly where each instrument or voice is coming from aren't there -- sounds seem smeared together a bit. Not horrible, but certainly the least precise of all my TOTLs (Utopia, Auteur, Ether 2, HEKv2).

Of course, that's neither here nor there as far as reference vs fun goes

Suede pads -- I find the leather pads drive the tonality warmer, and accentuate what I hear as a mid-bass rise. Haven't really gone back to leather since first A/B testing of the two pad sets.

And the difference (vocals pushed back on the track I mentioned) was quite striking comparing BW Auteur to Empy. However, even Ether 2 presents that vocal as more forward in the mix.

==================

About your discussion of imprecise terms used to describe the sound quality of equipment: I completely agree. Really, most of the terms folks use to describe sound are vague at best. For example, what does it mean when someone says something is more wet, or more dry? I get the underlying concept, but I really can't create a reasonable expectation of what the thing will sound like.

That said, I find that more/less musical is a fairly good shorthand to use when comparing some equipment. For example, I've always said that my BW Auteur is more musical than my Utopia, even though they have similar tonality i.e., pretty linear. And I can also say that Utopia is more musical from my LP w/ Siemens tubes using my Lazuli Reference cable than from my Bryston BHA-1 with ... any other cable. Although I suppose the better contrast would be less musical, more analytic.

And, to me, fun is pretty well defined in this thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/what-is-a-fun-headphone.635381/

I'm not trying to say Empy is waaaaayyyy over on the fun side, but to my ears, it leans that way.

I thank you LCML for your more detailed descriptions of how these cans sound in your system...and further confirm the differences exhibited between various systems/ears etc....my own included.
The areas you covered will also be quite heavily influenced by other items in the chain of course - merely changing tubes in a tube amp (especially their family) can have profound effects on bass/mids/treble emphasis and detail, let alone soundstage. In my own case for example, my latest tube complement - triode-strapped pentodes - have the Mezes delivering a more linear FR than the description(s) applied to the term 'fun' would imply...no overly pronounced 'U/V' curve here... (neither the 'recessed mids' kind as per our glossary, nor the 'coloured upper mids/treble' mentioned in your link). In addition, despite a very 3-dimensional stage, vocal and instrumental separation/positioning are nowhere near as imprecise as per your own experience.

I agree that these headphones do indeed have a fair degree of bass emphasis, which is no bad thing in my book, as even my supreme (and full) bass-handling EL38 power/output tubes do not overwhelm other frequencies or destroy overall balance.
I have always been - and still am! - fascinated by different folks' response to, and interpretation of, all our sensory input.... and with regard to sound, bass and treble frequencies especially. This is indeed a veritable minefield in which to venture.

These caveats notwithstanding, I can only conclude that for me, these Empyreans deliver the goods on so many levels (no hps being perfect, of course), that any variance from 'reference' is pretty well immaterial IMHO...and give me the kind of 'warm' experience that, after years of striving for hyper linear/detailed performance (as far as tubes can manage, that is!), I now much prefer to a 'colder', more 'analytical' type of sound. But I still demand a fairly even delivery...with plenty of fine detail...and which I can now say from my system is highly enjoyable, rather than 'fun' (a term I'm still not enamoured with, I'm afraid lol! ).

 

[LCMusicLover]

I thank you LCML for your more detailed descriptions of how these cans sound in your system...and further confirm the differences exhibited between various systems/ears etc....my own included.
The areas you covered will also be quite heavily influenced by other items in the chain of course - merely changing tubes in a tube amp (especially their family) can have profound effects on bass/mids/treble emphasis and detail, let alone soundstage. In my own case for example, my latest tube complement - triode-strapped pentodes - have the Mezes delivering a more linear FR than the description(s) applied to the term 'fun' would imply...no overly pronounced 'U/V' curve here... (neither the 'recessed mids' kind as per our glossary, nor the 'coloured upper mids/treble' mentioned in your link). In addition, despite a very 3-dimensional stage, vocal and instrumental separation/positioning are nowhere near as imprecise as per your own experience.

I agree that these headphones do indeed have a fair degree of bass emphasis, which is no bad thing in my book, as even my supreme (and full) bass-handling EL38 power/output tubes do not overwhelm other frequencies or destroy overall balance.
I have always been - and still am! - fascinated by different folks' response to, and interpretation of, all our sensory input.... and with regard to sound, bass and treble frequencies especially. This is indeed a veritable minefield in which to venture.

These caveats notwithstanding, I can only conclude that for me, these Empyreans deliver the goods on so many levels (none being perfect, of course), that any variance from 'reference' is pretty well immaterial IMHO...and give me the kind of 'warm' experience that, after years of striving for hyper linear/detailed performance (as far as tubes can manage, that is!), I now much prefer to a 'colder', more 'analytical' type of sound. But I still demand a fairly even delivery...with plenty of fine detail...and which I can now say from my system is highly enjoyable, rather than 'fun' (a term I'm still not enamoured with, I'm afraid lol! ).

I think we're close to 'violent agreement'

Def hear you about tube rolling. I only have the tube-hybrid LP -- less change can be produced by swapping one pair vs 2 or 3 pair in other tube amps. Still, I found the E2 headstage really opened up when I rolled in my Siemens E88CCs and (possibly) even more with CCa tubes. Interesting how you hear a more precise headstage. What I hear isn't horribly blurred, but it falls behind Ether 2, HEKv2 and (especially) Utopia. To me, Utopia has incredibly precise imaging ('That instrument, RIGHT THERE'). But smaller, and very 2d vs any of my other cans. By comparison, Empy has a much more holographic stage, which is quite even in all three dimensions (unlike say HEK which is wide and tall, but not as deep).

On tube rolling, Dr. Cavalli is pretty adamant that only 6922s or exact equivalents should be used in LP, so no 'family' rolling.

Anyway, have fun! with your Empyrean

 

[hypnos1]

I think we're close to 'violent agreement'

Def hear you about tube rolling. I only have the tube-hybrid LP -- less change can be produced by swapping one pair vs 2 or 3 pair in other tube amps. Still, I found the E2 headstage really opened up when I rolled in my Siemens E88CCs and (possibly) even more with CCa tubes. Interesting how you hear a more precise headstage. What I hear isn't horribly blurred, but it falls behind Ether 2, HEKv2 and (especially) Utopia. To me, Utopia has incredibly precise imaging ('That instrument, RIGHT THERE'). But smaller, and very 2d vs any of my other cans. By comparison, Empy has a much more holographic stage, which is quite even in all three dimensions (unlike say HEK which is wide and tall, but not as deep).

On tube rolling, Dr. Cavalli is pretty adamant that only 6922s or exact equivalents should be used in LP, so no 'family' rolling.

Anyway, have fun! with your Empyrean

Hi again LCML.

Varying descriptive term interpretation(!) - and equipment - apart, I reckon we are indeed closer in our relationship with these headphones than may at first appear lol! Personal preference will, as usual, also play a big part of course.

It certainly is a great shame that 'alternative' tubes cannot be used in your LP amp...I have always felt there are better tubes out there than the 6922 (or equivalent), very good though they are. It wasn't until I started experimenting with the EL family of pentodes (to which by a miracle, Feliks-Audio's Elise and Euforia responded as if tailor made, when triode-strapped) that I began to understand some old timers' pondering on 'why the later fuss about triode tubes?' On closer examination of most old pentodes' construction and methodology, I was totally smitten...and their subsequent performance has only reinforced my respect for them, culminating in how they help my Empyreans perform to a degree that still brings a very big smile to my face (when not in one of surprise/mild disbelief!).

My only regret is that I cannot, alas, afford the amazing collection of headphones that you are blessed with...if even to just get a better handle on your own perceived differences between them!

ps. You must indeed be spoiled for choice in your own enjoyment lol

 

[LCMusicLover]

...My only regret is that I cannot, alas, afford the amazing collection of headphones that you are blessed with...

Well, I must stop with the impulse purchases!

That said, I'm falling over again (DSHA-3F). Aaggghhhhh!

(How about I'm glad you're having fun enjoying your Empyrean?) Cheers!

 

[kumar402]

Well, I must stop with the impulse purchases!

That said, I'm falling over again (DSHA-3F). Aaggghhhhh!

(How about I'm glad you're having fun enjoying your Empyrean?) Cheers!

I too am hearing a lot about that amp. But not sure if the order is still open for it.
I feel I'm done with Headphone purchases for a while. Need to finalize amp and DAC

 

[hypnos1]

Well, I must stop with the impulse purchases!

That said, I'm falling over again (DSHA-3F). Aaggghhhhh!

(How about I'm glad you're having fun enjoying your Empyrean?) Cheers!

You can get help with that, you know!!

And your parting good wishes appeal to all my sensibilities...cheers! to you too

 

[LCMusicLover]

I too am hearing a lot about that amp. But not sure if the order is still open for it.
I feel I'm done with Headphone purchases for a while. Need to finalize amp and DAC

I chatted with Doug over the weekend -- he's accepting orders for 'batch 3'.

Finalize -- that sounds so ... final

...and implausible. Sort of like 'End game' LOL!!!

 

[mixman]

Have any of you had or compared the Empyrean to the LCD 4 or 4Z? If so what are the pluses and minuses of each in that comparison?

 

[Bakath]

Ok I am about to do something crazy and pick up the McIntosh MHA150 for my Emps. The price tag for me is massive so before I pull the trigger I figured I'd ask you all if I am being stupid .

 

[ken6217]

It’s difficult to use the word stupid in this hobby. A lot of times reason goes out the window.

For me personally it is senseless to buy any piece of equipment that you can’t return for a full refund or at least a restocking fee in case you don’t like it. Strictly going by a reviewers opinion, or anyone else on this forum, or a friend, or anybody else in the world, it is all based on how they hear music, how they like to hear music, and all of their associated components and cables. It’s never apples to apples to what you are going to hear in your system. You can get a guideline, but that’s it.

I have not heard the Macintosh and my comments have nothing to do with this amp. I’m just commenting on buying anything without the ability to send it back in case you don't like it.

 

[Bakath]

I took my Emps on a tour to all the local stores and tried a bunch of gear, the McIntosh 150 stood out in a big way to me. Now everything I have at home seems lacking, I guess I am more concerned that McIntosh is not the Bose of the high-end world. Or can I get something that smokes it for the same or less cash.

 

[kumar402]

I took my Emps on a tour to all the local stores and tried a bunch of gear, the McIntosh 150 stood out in a big way to me. Now everything I have at home seems lacking, I guess I am more concerned that McIntosh is not the Bose of the high-end world. Or can I get something that smokes it for the same or less cash.

I have heard nothing but high praise for this amp. I haven't heard the amp mind you.