[DrummerLeo]

Just out of curiosity, could you list what else you tried at the 4k price range to compare?

ECBA, WA5Le full version, DNA Stratus( this one is close, Stratus is smoother and warmer and has completely no noise, ha300 is more detailed, better soundstage, clear image, better bass texture and punchier), Lau, Enigma(very limited time of use, but it didn’t impress me)

 

[RickY B]

You guys should try the Manley. You might be pleasantly surprised.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazi..._Labs_Absolute_Headphone_Amplifier_Review.htm

https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/manley-absolute-headphone-amplifier/

Summary

Just when you think the personal listening world cannot come up with anything new, the Manley Absolute Headphone Amplifier brings a mountain of new features and improvements to the party. Not only is the Absolute the most beautiful headphone amp in the room, but it is also chock-full of useful adjustments you really need to achieve the unfailing musicality you crave. With extremely quiet operation, just as quiet as solid state, you will love the satisfaction of owning this masterpiece, regardless of your headphones or musical tastes. By Robert H. Levi

To the folks at Manley, the Absolute IS ABSOLUTE. Congratulations and most highly recommended!

My advice? Buy yours before the price goes up! (TOO LATE)

 

[DrummerLeo]

To me it is opposite Empyrean are more balanced then D8000 (warmer), and yes they (Final) change a lot over time, but even with silver cable they are warmer then Meze.
I have a chance to listen to Meze and HA300 in AVS in Warsaw and it was disaster.

Sorry I'm little bit confusing here, similar question as @buffer.
I have both ha300 and D8000, but I really like this combo, they are certainly not good for classic, but they are phenomenal with pop and some metal genres (progressive metal and metalcore), it is not disaster by all means.
I really need to try empyrean, where can I demo them or I have to wait till Canjam SoCal?

 

[TheDuke990]

It gave them a nice full sound.

For me it is already to "full"

 

[PeteSTRADAMUS]

Just heard the Empyrean on the Wa11 Topaz, sounded awesome again!.

 

[saudio7]

i like opposing view points so thank you. Out of curiosity, which ear pads were you using on the Meze when comparing to the D8000? Also, just a quick question - at the end of your post you said Meze was a disaster when listening with the HA300 - did u mean the D8000 was a disaster? i only ask because from the tenor of your reply it looks like you were left with a favorable impression of the Meze.

Alcantara pads, regarding HA300 it was Meze not Final.
I own Final for more then a year now, so I am quite familiar with they sound and when I demo Empyrean I found it more pleasing then Final, which are more engaiging into the music, you are inside of the performence.

 

[Pharmaboy]

Have to comment briefly about what tubes do/don't do, because I think I'm reading some misconceptions here...

Yes, certain tube amps are voiced to be "warm," and some people love these amps. But just as many are voiced to be as neutral as the specific circuit topology & tubes used allow. Some types of tubes (& brands within types) lend themselves to warmth, but many others don't.

The biggest factor comes down to how the designer wants the amp to sound. And in actuality, not many want the amp to sound overwhelmingly warm, lush, all that. Tube designers are heterogeneous in their sonic tastes & intentions, just like SS amp designers.

I have a tube amp IMS now (Woo WA3)...and owned various tube amps & preamps in the past; also heard other tube amps/preamps in other systems, audio shops, etc. I will say this about tubes: all other things being equal (ie, neutral/not overtly warm SS amp compared to a neutral/not overtly warm tube amp), tubes usually do certain things that give them a special "sound" (which doesn't necessarily = warmth):

• They convey dimensionality of notes, instruments & voices with greater detail/depth/fidelity. Notes tend to sound (IMO) more real, tangible, lifelike on tubes; the timbre of voices & instruments tends to come through more strongly on tube amplification
• They usually convey the space around & between notes with greater detail/depth. This is pretty audible on acoustic music. You tend to hear the acoustic space better
• Though some tubes are renowned for rendering highs well, while some others go very low, in general (again IMO) tubes tend to nail the midrange, where most music happens

If I had an Empyrean & one of the endgame tube amps being discussed here, I wouldn't hesitate to use the tube amp with it. The odds are the interaction between Empyrean & tube amp would be far more nuanced and less predictable than this "warm" idea conveys.

 

[TheDuke990]

Your are right, not all tube amps sounds warm but a lot of them.
I read many comments in other forums (most the time in german forums (nomax, fidelio, etc.) and they suggested to use an amp/dac combo which sounds a little bit brighter than neutral to fit the Empyrean best.
Hopefully I can test the Empyrean again with the new silver cable.

 

[paulomario77]

Have to comment briefly about what tubes do/don't do, because I think I'm reading some misconceptions here...

Yes, certain tube amps are voiced to be "warm," and some people love these amps. But just as many are voiced to be as neutral as the specific circuit topology & tubes used allow. Some types of tubes (& brands within types) lend themselves to warmth, but many others don't.

The biggest factor comes down to how the designer wants the amp to sound. And in actuality, not many want the amp to sound overwhelmingly warm, lush, all that. Tube designers are heterogeneous in their sonic tastes & intentions, just like SS amp designers.

I have a tube amp IMS now (Woo WA3)...and owned various tube amps & preamps in the past; also heard other tube amps/preamps in other systems, audio shops, etc. I will say this about tubes: all other things being equal (ie, neutral/not overtly warm SS amp compared to a neutral/not overtly warm tube amp), tubes usually do certain things that give them a special "sound" (which doesn't necessarily = warmth):

• They convey dimensionality of notes, instruments & voices with greater detail/depth/fidelity. Notes tend to sound (IMO) more real, tangible, lifelike on tubes; the timbre of voices & instruments tends to come through more strongly on tube amplification
• They usually convey the space around & between notes with greater detail/depth. This is pretty audible on acoustic music. You tend to hear the acoustic space better
• Though some tubes are renowned for rendering highs well, while some others go very low, in general (again IMO) tubes tend to nail the midrange, where most music happens

If I had an Empyrean & one of the endgame tube amps being discussed here, I wouldn't hesitate to use the tube amp with it. The odds are the interaction between Empyrean & tube amp would be far more nuanced and less predictable than this "warm" idea conveys.

Did you get a chance to hear the Empyrean out of your WA3? I have a ZDS, and wonder how the Empyrean will sound paired to it. My experience with planars and the Zana was mostly negative, but the Empyrean is supposedly very easy to drive.

 

[Pharmaboy]

Did you get a chance to hear the Empyrean out of your WA3? I have a ZDS, and wonder how the Empyrean will sound paired to it. My experience with planars and the Zana was mostly negative, but the Empyrean is supposedly very easy to drive.

No, I only heard the Empyrean in the Meze booth at CanJam last year. Honestly don't recall the amplification (was too busy getting my ears & mind blown by that great sound to notice).

But I would not expect the Empyrean to sound very good on the ZDS, WA3, or any OTL tube amp. I'm pretty sure its impedance is ~32 ohms, and from past experience, this means the Empyrean would likely sound bloated & sluggish from the lower mids on down. Not a guarantee, but a likelihood.

In my comments about tube amps above, I should have clarified that I was talking about tube amps with transformers, thus able to put out lower output impedance signal than an OTL.

 

[paulomario77]

No, I only heard the Empyrean in the Meze booth at CanJam last year. Honestly don't recall the amplification (was too busy getting my ears & mind blown by that great sound to notice).

But I would not expect the Empyrean to sound very good on the ZDS, WA3, or any OTL tube amp. I'm pretty sure its impedance is ~32 ohms, and from past experience, this means the Empyrean would likely sound bloated & sluggish from the lower mids on down. Not a guarantee, but a likelihood.

In my comments about tube amps above, I should have clarified that I was talking about tube amps with transformers, thus able to put out lower output impedance signal than an OTL.

The ZDS is 3 Ohms on low gain, so theoretically the 8:1 rule is respected. Low impedance Denons (25 Ohms) sound pretty good with the ZDS, but then again they're dynamic and not planar, constant-impedance cans.

 

[KarlStromberg]

Did you get a chance to hear the Empyrean out of your WA3? I have a ZDS, and wonder how the Empyrean will sound paired to it. My experience with planars and the Zana was mostly negative, but the Empyrean is supposedly very easy to drive.

The Empyrean doesn't pair so well with the ZDS imho. Didn't try some tube rolling yet (I am currently using the Sophia 6SL7), but I don't think this will help that much, same as changing cables. First time I tried it, it seemed indeed too warm sounding, the second time I tried yesterday it was more like flat and uninvolving, not really that warm sounding (maybe this was due to a different choice of songs I listened to). Treble, mids and bass seemed OK, but I was missing the energy it shows when being paired with the V281/V850. That combo is also considered to be more on the dark side, but it works far better with the Empyrean.
The Utopia on the other hand works beautifully with the ZDS. Not really warm, but really involving and analogue sounding (the latter may be Yggy's addition to the chain), especially when Yggy and ZDS have been heated up for a while and have reached their working temperature. I also enjoy the Utopia from the V281/V850, but it's definitely more dry sounding from that chain.
I plan to have a look into the upcoming Schiit Ragnarok 2, however it depends a little bit on how the internal DAC (which can be optionally purchased if I got that right) will perform.

 

[Pharmaboy]

The ZDS is 3 Ohms on low gain, so theoretically the 8:1 rule is respected. Low impedance Denons (25 Ohms) sound pretty good with the ZDS, but then again they're dynamic and not planar, constant-impedance cans.

the ZDS (from everything I hear) is one of those unicorn tube amps where anything is possible. for example, an Empyrean might sound spectacular on one...from what I read, the ZDS has plenty of power for a tube amp, and power is important w/any planar, even efficient ones like the Empyrean.

just last night I listened to an efficient planar (HEX v2, which has a low impedance & takes relatively little amp power to drive to volume) on my least powerful amp, the M Stage Matrix HPA-1. it was interesting...I got plenty of volume at ~11AM on the volume dial, and really wouldn't have cranked it any more. but the bass & soundstaging weren't as good as they are w/more powerful SS amps. So power definitely matters w/even efficient planars.

 

[KarlStromberg]

I'm using my Forza Audioworks Noir HPC MK2 balanced cable.

I use that cable too, since I used it with the ZMF, which I sold in the meanwhile. Didn't like the stock (single ended) cable, which came with the Empyrean. The connectors were fine, but the coating is somewhat fractious and also has a cheap look and feel in my opinion. I like the XLR version without the coating a lot more, just from the pictures.

 

[paulomario77]

The Empyrean doesn't pair so well with the ZDS imho. Didn't try some tube rolling yet (I am currently using the Sophia 6SL7), but I don't think this will help that much, same as changing cables. First time I tried it, it seemed indeed too warm sounding, the second time I tried yesterday it was more like flat and uninvolving, not really that warm sounding (maybe this was due to a different choice of songs I listened to). Treble, mids and bass seemed OK, but I was missing the energy it shows when being paired with the V281/V850. That combo is also considered to be more on the dark side, but it works far better with the Empyrean.
The Utopia on the other hand works beautifully with the ZDS. Not really warm, but really involving and analogue sounding (the latter may be Yggy's addition to the chain), especially when Yggy and ZDS have been heated up for a while and have reached their working temperature. I also enjoy the Utopia from the V281/V850, but it's definitely more dry sounding from that chain.
I plan to have a look into the upcoming Schiit Ragnarok 2, however it depends a little bit on how the internal DAC (which can be optionally purchased if I got that right) will perform.

Thank you! I currently have the ZDS and the iFi Pro iCAN. I ordered a Stellaris, but will only ship in October.

the ZDS (from everything I hear) is one of those unicorn tube amps where anything is possible. for example, an Empyrean might sound spectacular on one...from what I read, the ZDS has plenty of power for a tube amp, and power is important w/any planar, even efficient ones like the Empyrean.

just last night I listened to an efficient planar (HEX v2, which has a low impedance & takes relatively little amp power to drive to volume) on my least powerful amp, the M Stage Matrix HPA-1. it was interesting...I got plenty of volume at ~11AM on the volume dial, and really wouldn't have cranked it any more. but the bass & soundstaging weren't as good as they are w/more powerful SS amps. So power definitely matters w/even efficient planars.

Yes, power does not equal quality, the quest for synergy is one of the things that make this hobby so interesting (and expensive).