[tradyblix]

While there certainly are headphones outside of Meze that deserve an audition, so does the Elite.
He shouldn't just dismiss them because someone prefered the Empyrean over it

He should dismiss it because it's absurdly priced for it's performance at 4k. He already heard / owned a very similar (and slightly worse headphone) in the empyrean and he can get much better bang for his buck.

After seeing what the Arya Stealth does at just 1300 dollars... prices in the market are not sustainable and need to be re-evaluated. It's not 2015.

I spent 3k 3 years ago on the Empyrean. It lost 1/3 it's value in that time. The Arya out performs it in some ways... on details at least at 1/3 the prices..

Yes. look around for your 4k and see what you can get instead of getting a slightly updated version that's almost identical in build quality and design. Or dare I say save some money for the missus or put it towards a really nice source.

I know this is going to upset some people's fragile egos but someone has to put the cold hard truth down sometimes.

Btw, I saw the same dumb gatekeeping / FOMO things in the Arya thread. Everytime we talk up the Arya and how we love it, some HEKv2 owner comes in to tell us how crap it is compared to the 700 dollars more HEKv2.

Here, it's the freaking Elite. Enough with all that.

They put a thinner diaphram and cut the pad size in half and want 4,000. That's... no.

Same exact build materials, same exact traces, same exact magnet structure.

I get it, you want to defend your purchase choice and your 4k wallet hit, but do it in the Elite thread.

 

[ThanatosVI]

He should dismiss it because it's absurdly priced for it's performance at 4k. He already heard / owned a very similar (and slightly worse headphone) in the empyrean and he can get much better bang for his buck.

After seeing what the Arya Stealth does at just 1300 dollars... prices in the market are not sustainable and need to be re-evaluated. It's not 2015.

I spent 3k 3 years ago on the Empyrean. It lost 1/3 it's value in that time. The Arya out performs it in some ways... on details at least at 1/3 the prices..

Yes. look around for your 4k and see what you can get instead of getting a slightly updated version that's almost identical in build quality and design. Or dare I say save some money for the missus or put it towards a really nice source.

I know this is going to upset some people's fragile egos but someone has to put the cold hard truth down sometimes.

Btw, I saw the same dumb gatekeeping / FOMO things in the Arya thread. Everytime we talk up the Arya and how we love it, some HEKv2 owner comes in to tell us how crap it is compared to the 700 dollars more HEKv2.

Here, it's the freaking Elite. Enough with all that.

They put a thinner diaphram and cut the pad size in half and want 4,000. That's... no.

Same exact build materials, same exact traces, same exact magnet structure.

I get it, you want to defend your purchase choice and your 4k wallet hit, but do it in the Elite thread.

Well if you look at it that way, ALL headphones in summit Fi are overpriced. Meze, Hifiman, all of them. The prices will keep rising with Inflation, and it is like this because the market is paying those prices. Just look at the 7000€ Susvara many years ago.

The items Lose 25% value after you opened the box, but it's like that for an Elite the same way it is for an Arya or Sundara... on the other side a 1 year old headphone and a 2.5 year old one keep about the same value.

The Arya doesn't outperform the Empyrean in Details, it just Puts more emphasis on the Treble. It's a good headphone at it's price, but it doesn't keep up with the Empyrean. I owned it, I like it, but it certainly doesn't outperform the Empyrean. Of course there is nothing wrong if you still prefer it over others.

Interesting that you mention the build. The Meze build quality is the best in the business Bar none. Unlike their sonic performance that's actually umiversally agreed on

 

[chef8489]

He should dismiss it because it's absurdly priced for it's performance at 4k. He already heard / owned a very similar (and slightly worse headphone) in the empyrean and he can get much better bang for his buck.

After seeing what the Arya Stealth does at just 1300 dollars... prices in the market are not sustainable and need to be re-evaluated. It's not 2015.

I spent 3k 3 years ago on the Empyrean. It lost 1/3 it's value in that time. The Arya out performs it in some ways... on details at least at 1/3 the prices..

Yes. look around for your 4k and see what you can get instead of getting a slightly updated version that's almost identical in build quality and design. Or dare I say save some money for the missus or put it towards a really nice source.

I know this is going to upset some people's fragile egos but someone has to put the cold hard truth down sometimes.

Btw, I saw the same dumb gatekeeping / FOMO things in the Arya thread. Everytime we talk up the Arya and how we love it, some HEKv2 owner comes in to tell us how crap it is compared to the 700 dollars more HEKv2.

Here, it's the freaking Elite. Enough with all that.

They put a thinner diaphram and cut the pad size in half and want 4,000. That's... no.

Same exact build materials, same exact traces, same exact magnet structure.

I get it, you want to defend your purchase choice and your 4k wallet hit, but do it in the Elite thread.

The empyrean did not loose its value. Brand new ones are the same price they were when they came out. Yours lost value because it is used just as every headphone dose once it becomes used. Heck everything liises value once it becomes used not just headphones.

 

[Ateefi]

I'll chime in here about my first thought of the empyrean I bought and it was definitely not a £2700 headphone and was glad I bought used. What I think you are paying for is the build quality , only sounds good after eq.

 

[ochre korg]

While there certainly are headphones outside of Meze that deserve an audition, so does the Elite.
He shouldn't just dismiss them because someone prefered the Empyrean over it

Do not worry. Elite is definitely an upgrade. You get more details without becoming harsh, there is an airy feeling in the songs with it.
Both HP sounds gorgeous on MHA200.

I will audition the Elite, together with some other HP’s. Am really looking forward to compare and match. Till then I won’t complain with the Empyrean

 

[tradyblix]

The prices will keep rising

The prices aren't rising because of inflation. That's just a recent (last 6 months) phenomenon.

The prices started getting set at 5k for TOTL headphones when the Abyss AB1266 was released, almost 10 years ago. (E-stats aside for a moment)

It was a boutique headphone by a small company at the time and it's only real competition for a while was the LCD-4, also around 4-5k.

Since then we have seen so many headphones start to come out 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000, 6000... whatever the manufacturers think they can get away with.

When you throw up your hands and say we can't help it, I bet Manufacturers love it. Go ahead, spend 4 times as much for less performance then. No big deal.

The Arya doesn't outperform the Empyrean in Details

Nonsense. Empy has a problem with details, otherwise why would there be an Elite ? Come on. You can't have your cake and eat it.

Spending more money != Better Headphone. (or Amps.. especially amps). Period. That's a Rookie mistake.

The first boxes came out with the branding "Empyrean Elite" for God's sake. Until there was an uproar, and they made up a lie about it being a mistake. Sure.

Now don't misunderstand me, I'm not slating the Empyrean. That's why I haven't sold it. (yet).

But when I go to a company and pay 3 grand retail, more than I paid for the Utopia, to get a TOTL headphone, and it underperforms in a crucial area that 2 years later 1300 dollar headphones are besting it in, then they revise it and add 1000 to the price...not providing a driver upgrade program like Hifiman and Audeze do...

All while we got an absolute crap color scheme on the first run and every other revision had nice colors.... am I going to go back to that company and give them another 4 grand for what should have been there in the first place ?

Or am I gonna go get headphones that have that performance for up to 2k (!!) less ? Hmmmm...

 

[ThanatosVI]

The prices aren't rising because of inflation. That's just a recent (last 6 months) phenomenon.

The prices started getting set at 5k for TOTL headphones when the Abyss AB1266 was released, almost 10 years ago.

It was a boutique headphone by a small company at the time and it's only real competition for a while was the LCD-4, also around 4-5k.

Since then we have seen so many headphones start to come out 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000, 6000... whatever the manufacturers think they can get away with.

When you throw up your hands and say we can't help it, I bet Manufacturers love it. Go ahead, spend 4 times as much for less performance then. No big deal.


Nonsense. Empy has a problem with details, otherwise why would there be an Elite ? Come on. You can't have your cake and eat it.

The first boxes came out with the branding "Empyrean Elite" for God's sake. Until there was an uproar, and they made up a lie about it being a mistake. Sure.

As I said, the prices are this high because the market is paying them, Inflation just makes sure that they won't decrease from this point forward.

Empyrean has no problem with details, they just don't shove them in your face and have a warmer tuning on top.
The Elite is there because many listeners prefer a more neutral presentation. That's also why they are in addition to the Empyrean in the lineup and not a replacement.
There never was an uproar about the case
Initially they planned to use the name Empyrean Elite but then decided to change it to Elite only, as you also can see in early reviews which all named it Empyrean Elite.

The first charge of cases still head the initial Name and consecutive charges received the new Name.

 

[chef8489]

The prices aren't rising because of inflation. That's just a recent (last 6 months) phenomenon.

The prices started getting set at 5k for TOTL headphones when the Abyss AB1266 was released, almost 10 years ago. (E-stats aside for a moment)

It was a boutique headphone by a small company at the time and it's only real competition for a while was the LCD-4, also around 4-5k.

Since then we have seen so many headphones start to come out 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000, 6000... whatever the manufacturers think they can get away with.

When you throw up your hands and say we can't help it, I bet Manufacturers love it. Go ahead, spend 4 times as much for less performance then. No big deal.


Nonsense. Empy has a problem with details, otherwise why would there be an Elite ? Come on. You can't have your cake and eat it.

Spending more money != Better Headphone. (or Amps.. especially amps). Period. That's a Rookie mistake.

The first boxes came out with the branding "Empyrean Elite" for God's sake. Until there was an uproar, and they made up a lie about it being a mistake. Sure.

Now don't misunderstand me, I'm not slating the Empyrean. That's why I haven't sold it. (yet).

But when I go to a company and pay 3 grand retail, more than I paid for the Utopia, to get a TOTL headphone, and it underperforms in a crucial area that 2 years later 1300 dollar headphones are besting it in, then they revise it and add 1000 to the price...not providing a driver upgrade program like Hifiman and Audeze do...

All while we got an absolute crap color scheme on the first run and every other revision had nice colors.... am I going to go back to that company and give them another 4 grand for what should have been there in the first place ?

Or am I gonna go get headphones that have that performance for up to 2k (!!) less ? Hmmmm...

Give me a break. Not everyone prefers a neutral more highs present presentation. The Elite offers a different tuning than the empyrean. A more neutral highs focused while the empyrean offered a more bass and mid centric presentation. As stated there is still quite a lot of detail in the empyrean but it doesn't force the highs and neutrality on you like other totl headphones do. What you think it underperformed, other people feel other headphones are shouty or quite piercing in the uppers. Some people are quite sensitive to highs and and sibilance. What isn't present to some in other headphones is quite present for others.

 

[tradyblix]

Okay. So because you guys couldn't refute a damn thing I said, which were all facts btw, but were still butthurt about it, you went with the

"Well, Elite's neutral" defense. Which it isn't, but okay. "Other TOTL headphones force neutrality on you, unlike the Empyrean". Umm... what ???

The **** does the Elite do then ? Gently try to convince me it's neutral ? lol.

Thanks for the laughs.

 

[ThanatosVI]

But when I go to a company and pay 3 grand retail, more than I paid for the Utopia, to get a TOTL headphone, and it underperforms in a crucial area that 2 years later 1300 dollar headphones are besting it in, then they revise it and add 1000 to the price...not providing a driver upgrade program like Hifiman and Audeze do...

So many things that you seem to have misunderstood here.
1.The Utopia retailed for 4grand, the Empyrean for 3grand. Both can be bought at discounts or used but in all cases the Utopia is the more expensive headphone. If you paid more for a new Empyrean than for a used/discounted Utopia that's in you.
2.The Empyrean is not underperforming, if you don't like the warm tuning and prefer one with less midbass and more treble, that's fine, but doesn't make the Empyrean underperform.
3. The Elite is no fix or revision of the Empyrean but a completely new headphone. Sure they use the same chassis but most manufacturers reuse them on several models.(Audeze LCD for instance) There is no driver upgrade program for the Empyrean because the Elite is no revision or upgrade to it, but a different headphone with different tuning aimed at a different audience.
For the same reason you don't receive a driver upgrade program from the Arya to the HekSE, they are different headphones.(even though you could replace the drivers, since they'd fit) You do receive an upgrade program when the new headphone replaces the old one. Which the Elite doesn't.

Okay. So because you guys couldn't refute a damn thing I said, which were all facts btw, but were still butthurt about it, you went with the

"Well, Elite's netural" defense. Which it isn't, but okay. Thanks for the laughs.

The Elite is more neutral than the Empyrean, that's a fact.
Like all my previous Statements as well.

 

[Toonartist]

Okay. So because you guys couldn't refute a damn thing I said, which were all facts btw, but were still butthurt about it, you went with the

"Well, Elite's neutral" defense. Which it isn't, but okay. "Other TOTL headphones force neutrality on you, unlike the Empyrean". Umm... what ???

The **** does the Elite do then ? Gently try to convince me it's neutral ? lol.

Thanks for the laughs.

I sense a lot of anger in you... I also see a lot of opinions quoted as "Facts". It doesn't matter how many times you say something it doesn't make it fact. At best, you may have circumstantial evidence for some and nothing for others.

 

[tradyblix]

To Summarize:

Me: Hey, check out other headphones. I just bought a headphone for 1300 that blows this one away on details, as is my new favorite but I still enjoy the Empyrean's qualities.

You: Nah, don't check anyone else out. Get the elite because it's more detailed.

Me: Set of facts about why Elite's not worth it.

You: Random things that were unrelated, (inflation ? really? lol), shifting the goalposts, twisting my words and trying to argue about headphone tonality. Telling people Arya Stealth is less detailed than the Empyrean (Credibility lost)

Me: Shocked reaction post laying out my personal reasons why I'm not giving Meze any more cash.

You: More Random things to try to find a way to discredit me. Random folks wanting to take sides out of insecurity.

Have a great day folks.

 

[chef8489]

Okay. So because you guys couldn't refute a damn thing I said, which were all facts btw, but were still butthurt about it, you went with the

"Well, Elite's neutral" defense. Which it isn't, but okay. "Other TOTL headphones force neutrality on you, unlike the Empyrean". Umm... what ???

The **** does the Elite do then ? Gently try to convince me it's neutral ? lol.

Thanks for the laughs.

LMAO. serious. your flawed idea that a headphone is outperformed because it is not neutral is what is wrong. I never said the Elite was neutral did I? I believe my exact words were the Elite offers a more neutral tuning than the empyrean. I also stated no everyone wants a neutral tuning in a TOTL headphone and that just because it is not a neutral tuning doesn't mean it underperforms. They both have excellent detail and just not over the top in neutrality in the tuning. I refute everything you said. If they elite outperformed it in every way they would have discontinued it as it would have replaced it. The Elite offers a different option. Something a bit more neutral with a bit more highs as I stated while the Empyrean offers more bass and more mids centric. And no those 1300.00 headphones are not besting it because they are no where near the same sound signature nor offer the same experience or build quality.

 

[Toonartist]

As others have pointed out, a headphone can have a selling point other than detail you know! It's not a prerequisite for all headphones to have silly levels of detail!

 

[chef8489]

To Summarize:

Me: Hey, check out other headphones. I just bought a headphone for 1300 that blows this one away on details, as is my new favorite but I still enjoy the Empyrean's qualities.

You: Nah, don't check anyone else out. Get the elite because it's more detailed.

Me: Set of facts about why Elite's not worth it.

You: Random things that were unrelead, shifting the goalposts, twisting my words and trying to argue about headphone tonality. Telling people Arya Stealth is less detailed than the Empyrean (Credibility lost)

Me: Shocked reaction post laying out my personal reasons why I'm not giving Meze any more cash.

You: More Random things to try to find a way to discredit me. Random folks wanting to take sides out of insecurity.

Have a great day folks.

No those are just opinions not facts... You should really learn difference between facts and opinion.