Meze EMPYREAN - the First Isodynamic Hybrid Array Headphone
Feb 19, 2018 at 1:39 PM Post #196 of 12,974
So I fudged up and didn’t get a chance to hear them again. :frowning2:. I walked in to listen but ended up having a very nice conversation with a fellow headfi’r in the Meze room. Anotnio Meze was in the middle of an interview so we left the room to talk more. I totally forgot to go back ha. I feel like that conversation with that person was more important.

I’m sorry I don’t have more to contribute on this. I DO really want to hear a final tuning of it. Hopefully I’ll get the chance some time.
I completely missed the show, I was so hung over from Saturday I didn't wake with enough time to make it out to the city. :frowning2:
 
Feb 19, 2018 at 2:08 PM Post #198 of 12,974
I completely missed the show, I was so hung over from Saturday I didn't wake with enough time to make it out to the city. :frowning2:
Dude I was going to ask you where you were at.... I figured we would have bumped into each other at some point. I am also 6’6” so it makes it harder to miss me!

I’m sorry you had too much fun the night before and missed it :frowning2:
 
Feb 19, 2018 at 2:09 PM Post #199 of 12,974
Dude I was going to ask you where you were at.... I figured we would have bumped into each other at some point. I am also 6’6” so it makes it harder to miss me!

I’m sorry you had too much fun the night before and missed it :frowning2:
Lol, I'm also easy to spot, I am about 6 ft 2 and the size of an offensive guard lol.
 
Feb 19, 2018 at 8:57 PM Post #200 of 12,974
Tested at CanJam NYC 2018. Great comfort, quality highs and mids without fatigue. Very natural sound and good stereo spread though not super spacious. Bass was clean and tight and solid. Didn't extend low enough into the subs for my taste (probably rolled off about 30-40 hz) per test stuff I played w/ low 808's down there that didn't boom. I've come to expect it from planars. Still overall great.
 
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Feb 19, 2018 at 9:05 PM Post #201 of 12,974
I am also 6’6” so it makes it harder to miss me!
I'm 6'5" and noticed I wasn't the tallest person in the room which is rare. I'd noticed that at AES NY also, seems folks that are into audio tend to be taller. I'm a musician too and can say they tend to be much shorter on average. Not sure why. I think a lot joined bands to do better with the women, as they were too small to be jocks and didn't want lonely life as a nerd. I'm a height exception I'd guess. I really have a proportional head in being large all around but particularly long, from the top to the ears, plus having thick hair (the 1/4 - 1/2 inch makes a difference - I'm sure) I can't fit most headphones. Made a suggestion to the Focal guy, as NONE of theirs open far enough, newer Utopia, Clear, Elear, Elux series is one click too short, Listen and older models far too small. Basso was there, with their newer prototype over ear (the best under $1,500 model there in my opinion) also one click too small on each side, and I let them know. It can't be too costly to add one click more travel on headphones.
 
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Feb 19, 2018 at 11:55 PM Post #203 of 12,974
Didn't extend low enough into the subs for my taste (probably rolled off about 30-40 hz) per test stuff I played w/ low 808's down there that didn't boom. I've come to expect it from planars. Still overall great.
It amuses me that people complain about a roll-off in that range. You should be glad that a headphone can go that low at acceptable levels. Also, I'm pretty sure 808s don't have a lot of content past 40 Hz, unless the kick sample is pitched down to an extreme. I'm not even sure why you would test that kind of music specifically on headphones. Most music gets rid of content below 40-35 Hz (it's mostly just rumble noise).
 
Feb 20, 2018 at 11:54 AM Post #205 of 12,974
It amuses me that people complain about a roll-off in that range. You should be glad that a headphone can go that low at acceptable levels.
My issue is that it is not acceptable to be rolled off almost completely below 30-40 hz. As a mixing / mastering engineer, I want to hear the complete full frequency. We are less sensitive to what's below 50 hz than above it, as the Fletcher Munson curve indicates. The long considered ideal Harman Curve Tyll refers to is the inverse of that, and it has rising bass response, the farther you go lower. I have worked with every genre, from acoustic to rock to EDM to Hip Hop. There are low tuned 808 kicks, for example on "Weekend" by Kelis about one minute into it (also again twice in the song) there is an "and the beat goes boom boom" part that starts with a higher 808 90% of cans and subs can reproduce. Then it goes to an 808 where its primary fundamental is 17 hz (I can hear down to about 5hz, actual tone, not just "feeling it" - I've tested for it). It has almost no harmonics above it. There are many smaller consumer subwoofers where you'll hear the starting "boop" of the "attack" then silence. You hear that on most open backs. On more bass-head cans you hear it loud and clear. We all hear differently. While I've reasons for that in my work, I also personally like feeling the headphones shake a bit when called upon. I respect if you are not that into bass down there and some cans will over do bass.
 
Feb 20, 2018 at 12:02 PM Post #206 of 12,974
My issue is that it is not acceptable to be rolled off almost completely below 30-40 hz. As a mixing / mastering engineer, I want to hear the complete full frequency. We are less sensitive to what's below 50 hz than above it, as the Fletcher Munson curve indicates. The long considered ideal Harman Curve Tyll refers to is the inverse of that, and it has rising bass response, the farther you go lower. I have worked with every genre, from acoustic to rock to EDM to Hip Hop. There are low tuned 808 kicks, for example on "Weekend" by Kelis about one minute into it (also again twice in the song) there is an "and the beat goes boom boom" part that starts with a higher 808 90% of cans and subs can reproduce. Then it goes to an 808 where its primary fundamental is 17 hz (I can hear down to about 5hz, actual tone, not just "feeling it" - I've tested for it). It has almost no harmonics above it. There are many smaller consumer subwoofers where you'll hear the starting "boop" of the "attack" then silence. You hear that on most open backs. On more bass-head cans you hear it loud and clear. We all hear differently. While I've reasons for that in my work, I also personally like feeling the headphones shake a bit when called upon. I respect if you are not that into bass down there and some cans will over do bass.
I think out of all the headphones I owned the JVC SZ2000 we're able to reproduce all the notes down low. And had plenty of thump. But the mids and highs were all over the place at higher volumes. I also produce music and do a little engineering.
 
Feb 20, 2018 at 12:20 PM Post #207 of 12,974
I think out of all the headphones I owned the JVC SZ2000 we're able to reproduce all the notes down low. And had plenty of thump. But the mids and highs were all over the place at higher volumes. I also produce music and do a little engineering.

I tried those JVC cans. Great bass but difficult to listen to otherwise. I like the Utopias you use, though I did find them a bit strident in the highs, they were otherwise remarkable when tested.
 
Feb 20, 2018 at 12:21 PM Post #208 of 12,974
My issue is that it is not acceptable to be rolled off almost completely below 30-40 hz. As a mixing / mastering engineer, I want to hear the complete full frequency. We are less sensitive to what's below 50 hz than above it, as the Fletcher Munson curve indicates. The long considered ideal Harman Curve Tyll refers to is the inverse of that, and it has rising bass response, the farther you go lower. I have worked with every genre, from acoustic to rock to EDM to Hip Hop. There are low tuned 808 kicks, for example on "Weekend" by Kelis about one minute into it (also again twice in the song) there is an "and the beat goes boom boom" part that starts with a higher 808 90% of cans and subs can reproduce. Then it goes to an 808 where its primary fundamental is 17 hz (I can hear down to about 5hz, actual tone, not just "feeling it" - I've tested for it). It has almost no harmonics above it. There are many smaller consumer subwoofers where you'll hear the starting "boop" of the "attack" then silence. You hear that on most open backs. On more bass-head cans you hear it loud and clear. We all hear differently. While I've reasons for that in my work, I also personally like feeling the headphones shake a bit when called upon. I respect if you are not that into bass down there and some cans will over do bass.
Problem is headphones that overdo the bass tend to be less defined in that region. I got a pair of K550s today and they do have an unusual amount of sub bass for a dynamic driver but they are less refined than say, a K712 (which is open back so it rolls off a bit more). I'd rather have really well defined bass than a lot of it in less than adequate quality.

Extending really low is hard for headphones given that they have a single driver (unlike speakers). Even planar and electrostats don't tend to follow a straight line all the way down to 20 Hz and those tend to be quite capable in that regard.

Your claim about hearing 5 Hz is specious at best. Unless you're some sort of mutant or superhuman your hearing likely rolls off in the twenties. A lot of modern music has no content below 30 Hz as well (it's hard to get a sub on a monitor to go under 30 Hz).
 
Feb 20, 2018 at 12:29 PM Post #209 of 12,974
Trust me, an audiologist kind of freaked out at how low I could hear below normal. Listen to "Weekend" by Kelis about 1:00 into it, the "and the beats go boom" part. It does it at a higher 808 sub switching later to a lower sub note. That is 17 hz. If you push in on your AKG K550 you will increase the bass output and should hear that low note if you can hear it. I hear the actual tone and it actually was identifiable on a keyboard (I played the note, having heard the tone, and not just "rumble"). I then found out that note was equal to 17 hz. There are test tones you can find on line & they'll allow you to pick frequencies. I did such a test myself (after the audiologist told me about that) and found I could hear well into the single digits and I think many can, as long as what you'll play it back through can reproduce it, you may be surprised you hear an actual note below 20 hz. I think I'm not alone in that, but I'm rare in how extended it is perhaps. I've talked to others, who found they also could hear below 20 hz and tested it. Honestly, having produced / mixed / mastered some EDM, even if you just "feel" 20 hz - you want to feel it. Some club systems go that low. Meaning, in that club you feel your feet shake, that's 20-30 hz making your feet shake. Stuff at 60 hz is more the "punch in the chest". Stuff below 30 hz has definite use. I mean within reason. It isn't hard to find ridiculous car systems with 120 db at 10 hz, which just makes the driver deaf for the sake of showing off and waking up a neighborhood. Believe me, I like quality, not just boom.
 
Feb 20, 2018 at 12:53 PM Post #210 of 12,974
Yeah, I can hear below 20 Hz as well but I don't think my headphone can push a lot of air that frequency. I'll retest this if I can get my hands on a good planar.

If you want a headphone with straight line bass you can get the OPPO PM-3 if you don't mind the narrow soundstage and less present treble.
 

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