[paradoxper]

I'm afraid the treble might be too much for ne on the Abyss

You definitely seem to have a warmer preference but I think with your V16, the pairing would be kind of next level.

 

[ThanatosVI]

You definitely seem to have a warmer preference but I think with your V16, the pairing would be kind of next level.

I'm sure of that

 

[jude]

There is some confusion about the output level in the THD measurements (or in any of the measurements in the video actually), and this was asked about in comments on YouTube. Any confusion about this is entirely my fault, and I really should have been clearer about some procedural changes we've made.

• We are now setting the output voltage level in the Audio Precision analyzer using white noise, setting the analyzer to auto-set the voltage to the level at which 80 dBSPL of white noise is output from the headphone.
  
  
• Once we reach 80 dBSPL of white noise, we initiate the sweep.
  
  
• In the case of the Elite with hybrid earpads, that corresponds to an output of just over 93 dBSPL at 1 kHz.
  
  
• With the Alcantara earpads, it corresponds to an output at 1 kHz of around 93.8 dBSPL. I really should have been clearer about this, and am sorry for the confusion.

If you're curious what the dBSPL output level is at any given frequency for which we're using white noise to set level, just look at the frequency response (as long as it has an absolute (versus relative) y-axis) and see what the dBSPL is at that frequency. Again, for the Elite with hybrid earpads it's ≈93 dBSPL @ 1 kHz, and for the Elite with Alcantara earpads it's ≈93.8 dBSPL @ 1 kHz. (You can see this for the Elite with hybrid earpads in Fig.3 below, but please read the rest of this post first.)

Again, I really should have been clearer about this, and I am sorry for any confusion.

Obviously, the next question is why I've started doing this. For years now I've felt strongly that setting the voltage in consideration of only one frequency (usually 500 Hz or 1 kHz) for every headphone is less than ideal, especially when you want to compare more than one headphone. We used to set levels at 1 kHz, typically at 90 dBSPL. (Tyll Hertsens at InnerFidelity used 90 dBSPL @ 1 kHz, and we followed suit.) Also commonly in use by others is 1 Pa (≈94 dBSPL) at 500 Hz. Let's take a look at the Meze Audio Elite's frequency response compared to the Bowers & Wilkins P9 matched up at 500 Hz:

Fig.1: Frequency responses of Meze Audio Elite (hybrid earpads) and Bowers & Wilkins P9, normalized at 500 Hz.​

I think you can see the problem we have matching these two headphone up at 500 Hz in Fig.1 above.

Here are those same headphones compared, normalized at 1 kHz:

Fig.2: Frequency responses of Meze Audio Elite (hybrid earpads) and Bowers & Wilkins P9, normalized at 1 kHz.​

Normalizing at 1 kHz in Fig.2 above looks better than the comparison in Fig.1 at 500 Hz. However, if you've heard these two headphones, I think you would agree this isn't really representative of a good comparison relative to what you hear either, but it's closer.

Here are those same headphones compared unnormalized (Fig.3 below), the measured output for both being 80 dBSPL of white noise:

Fig.3: Frequency responses of Meze Audio Elite (hybrid earpads) and Bowers & Wilkins P9, unnormalized. The output level for both was set with white noise at 80 dBSPL.​

If you're familiar with these two headphones, I think you'll agree that Fig.3 is a more meaningful comparison of both headphones, relative to what you hear. And this comparison -- because the levels were set using white noise versus just a single frequency -- did not require the arbitrary selection of a frequency to normalize at, for what I think/feel constitutes a good comparison of these two headphones. Of course, nothing's perfect, and certain comparisons may require intervention from time to time.

We may further refine and change these procedures, but this is what we're doing now, and we like what we're seeing so far.

What can I do better to make this clearer? I can find a way to state this more clearly in each measurement. Since we log the output voltage for every sweep, I can also consider including the average output voltage (average of all sweeps) to indicate sensitivity for comparison to other headphones similarly measured.

Anyway, again, I'm very sorry if I've caused confusion here -- that's completely on me. I hope for anyone reading this post, it's clearer now what I'm doing, and I hope you can appreciate the reasons why I'm doing it this way. Of course, I'm open to any critique or feedback about this, but let's keep that discussion for a separate thread. (I can create a separate thread later with a copy of this post to start it. I'll update this post with a link to that thread when I do.)

NOTE: The Bowers & Wilkins P9 measurement in the three graphs above was from just a single seating of the P9 (averaging both channels of that single seating), as I just did a quick P9 measure for the purpose of this post. We'll eventually do a multi-seat, averaged frequency response for the P9.

 

[Trance_Gott]

Come on guys , they are really expensive, I can't afford them

And the mids sucks on them.

 

[Ichos]

And the mids sucks on them.

On the Solitaire and the Abyss you mean?

 

[adydula]

Order one, it is exactly what you are looking for.
+ Some extra technicalities.

LOL! Its tempting but I am totally happy with the D8000 Pros.....but if I get to try them who knows....

 

[Trance_Gott]

On the Solitaire and the Abyss you mean?

Abyss

 

[FYFL]

LOL! Its tempting but I am totally happy with the D8000 Pros.....but if I get to try them who knows....

Unless you’re looking for different “flavor”. D8000 are excellent HP imho. If you like that sound signature (D8000) perhaps CB counterpart would make more sense (new DCA which was compared to D8000pro).

 

[parmiep]

Unless you’re looking for different “flavor”. D8000 are excellent HP imho. If you like that sound signature (D8000) perhaps CB counterpart would make more sense (new DCA which was compared to D8000pro).

The Stealth is/was compared to the D8000 Pro?

 

[adydula]

Unless you’re looking for different “flavor”. D8000 are excellent HP imho. If you like that sound signature (D8000) perhaps CB counterpart would make more sense (new DCA which was compared to D8000pro).

I had the Empys for months and liked them pretty much..but after the D8000's Pro "flavor" it was a no brainer for "ME"....just too warm.
I think the Elites are trying to make this less warm, full etc....so maybe this is the magic formula for Meze.
They make the most comfortable headphones I have ever tired...but its all about the sound first for me...

 

[432789]

So the older model has about double so much bass power than the new one… interesting.

 

[betula]

Looking at the graphs I was very surprised to see the massive bass roll off on the Elite with the suede pads. The hybrid pads seem to give a more linear bass response. That said, I usually don't pay much attention to graphs due to their extremely limited nature when it comes to describing sound, but this caught even my attention.

I am really fond of the original Empyreans, but like all other flagships I have heard so far the Empy is also not perfect. I love the Empy's tonality, coherence, easy-listening and engaging character. It sounds very natural and lifelike. To me the treble is smooth but very insightful.

I don't like bright headphones and I am sensitive to metallic, shimmery treble. I don't get on with Focal headphones (Clear, Utopia) or Sennheiser (HD800S) for this reason.
My personal preference is Audeze/Empy tone as it is more relaxed and warmer. Empy bass is one of the greatest, but LCD4 and even LCD-X with proper amp pairing offers better bass quality in certain aspects (impact, clarity).
That said, I prefer mids and treble on the Empy versus LCD4 as it sounds more opened, airy and natural.

As someone who really likes the Empy with its imperfections, I am kind of perplexed reading the Elite impressions. Sure, I would welcome the enhanced refinement and I wouldn't mind that mid bass to be a bit more linear, but only if the sub-bass is as linear presenting a solid base for the bass and overall sound.

As far as neutrality goes, I think I would be fine with a more neutral Empy as far as it is not taking away anything from the engaging qualities of the sound I like.

I am very interested in the Elite, but £1000 more than the original Empy makes me think twice or even three times. I rather wait a few more months.

For now I purchased a D8000 as it might just be what I think could be an improvement over the Empy. I might be wrong, but unfortunately on this level one must audition to know. All opinions are too controversial on the Elite, but even when it comes to the Empy, Susvara, Abyss TC I read very positive and very negative opinions. Some people love them, some hate them. This seems to be the case with all flagship headphones.

I wish these headphones were more accessible for auditioning as buying/selling has serious limitations. The advantage of buying/selling though is that you can spend as much time with the headphones as you like. Often you don't fall immediately in love, but it takes a few weeks to really appreciate the qualities you are new to.

 

[adydula]

Looking at the graphs I was very surprised to see the massive bass roll off on the Elite with the suede pads. The hybrid pads seem to give a more linear bass response. That said, I usually don't pay much attention to graphs due to their extremely limited nature when it comes to describing sound, but this caught even my attention.

I am really fond of the original Empyreans, but like all other flagships I have heard so far the Empy is also not perfect. I love the Empy's tonality, coherence, easy-listening and engaging character. It sounds very natural and lifelike. To me the treble is smooth but very insightful.

I don't like bright headphones and I am sensitive to metallic, shimmery treble. I don't get on with Focal headphones (Clear, Utopia) or Sennheiser (HD800S) for this reason.
My personal preference is Audeze/Empy tone as it is more relaxed and warmer. Empy bass is one of the greatest, but LCD4 and even LCD-X with proper amp pairing offers better bass quality in certain aspects (impact, clarity).
That said, I prefer mids and treble on the Empy versus LCD4 as it sounds more opened, airy and natural.

As someone who really likes the Empy with its imperfections, I am kind of perplexed reading the Elite impressions. Sure, I would welcome the enhanced refinement and I wouldn't mind that mid bass to be a bit more linear, but only if the sub-bass is as linear presenting a solid base for the bass and overall sound.

As far as neutrality goes, I think I would be fine with a more neutral Empy as far as it is not taking away anything from the engaging qualities of the sound I like.

I am very interested in the Elite, but £1000 more than the original Empy makes me think twice or even three times. I rather wait a few more months.

For now I purchased a D8000 as it might just be what I think could be an improvement over the Empy. I might be wrong, but unfortunately on this level one must audition to know. All opinions are too controversial on the Elite, but even when it comes to the Empy, Susvara, Abyss TC I read very positive and very negative opinions. Some people love them, some hate them. This seems to be the case with all flagship headphones.

I wish these headphones were more accessible for auditioning as buying/selling has serious limitations. The advantage of buying/selling though is that you can spend as much time with the headphones as you like. Often you don't fall immediately in love, but it takes a few weeks to really appreciate the qualities you are new to.

I could not have said this better...we all hear differently and at this price indeed you need to try and buy...for sure!

Alex

 

[driftingbunnies]

It's been a while since I've found a headphone that I loved after listening to it for a long time. Headphones that have impressed me in the beginning continued to impress me. Given enough brain burn, some headphones can seem fine but when you're spending this much, is fine really ok? I think the reason why every flagship has its fans and haters is due to the fact that each flagship is making a stand as to what they think is the best presentation and demand a high price for it. If something like a Sus was priced at Arya levels, I don't think you would have that many haters.

 

[betula]

It's been a while since I've found a headphone that I loved after listening to it for a long time. Headphones that have impressed me in the beginning continued to impress me. Given enough brain burn, some headphones can seem fine but when you're spending this much, is fine really ok? I think the reason why every flagship has its fans and haters is due to the fact that each flagship is making a stand as to what they think is the best presentation and demand a high price for it. If something like a Sus was priced at Arya levels, I don't think you would have that many haters.

Price is and will remain a substantial part of the equation. Expectations are much higher towards a 4K headphone than to a 1K headphone.

These days, when you can find really good headphones in mid-fi (I know, many people hate this term) for 1-1,5K (Arya, LCD-X) the price of 4-6K flagships becomes more questionable than ever.

To my ears the original Empy (and some other flagships) bring a lifelike quality and coherence over those popular mid-fi hits, but we reach a territory when improvements can't be defined objectively anymore. Ears and budget will determine purchases, not objective common sense. Which probably doesn't exist anyway.