[ckhirnigs113]

I have never understood how people seem to think they know objectively what the recording is supposed to sound like. Only they guy that mastered the thing on his monitors in the studio knows what he wanted it to sound like. Everything after that is just conjecture on our parts. Even if we could sit in with the mastering engineer and listen to exactly what they are listening to, using the same equipment, we would still have different perceptions due to an infinite number of variables (anatomy, mood, musical training, etc).

Like @Arcamera said, a headphone that is brighter than the Elite does not automatically produce a more accurate representation of the recording. In the end, unless you are recording and mastering yourself, it all comes down to what you like. For most of us here, the Elite checks all the boxes for musical enjoyment. The next-level comfort doesn’t hurt either!

 

[Arcamera]

I understand the appeal of a more analytic presentation. Some people have a taste for that-- that's cool. But if a headphone or transducer is going to veer a bit from nailing the reproduction perfectly (what is the perfect rendition?--good point), I'd rather it be more on the warm/euphonic side. And yeah, the build and comfort of the elite just seal the deal.

 

[turbofeet]

With high end gear the Elite scales amazingly well. Superb detail, instrument separation and a wide soundstage can be heard.

They balance technicalities with a natural/warm sound just perfectly but of course I'm preaching to the Elite "choir" here.

Any more detail and they may well be ruined.

I also still love the Empyreans for pure musical enjoyment. Sure; they're not on the technical level of the Elite but you just get lost in the music with that wonderful bass bloat tuning .
It's all personal taste of course. They are perfect for me but they might not be for you.

 

[FinHifi]

When I listen to a HP,just as when I listen to an amp or a DAC I want to hear exactly what is on the recording..I want the HP that is the most detailed as well as having all the other subjective qualities such as soundstage and bass and imagining etc...I owned the empyrean and sold it almost immediately ..I havent heard the Elite but I assume it has the same softening sound...I will however say that it is a beautiful and comfortable HP

Yeah I can understand that, that why I added the remark "tongue in cheek" we all are different and I can see why someone might not enjoy Elite as much as I do, as it colours the sound slightly For pure naturalists Susvara and LCD-5 beats Elites.

 

[betula]

With high end gear the Elite scales amazingly well. Superb detail, instrument separation and a wide soundstage can be heard.

They balance technicalities with a natural/warm sound just perfectly but of course I'm preaching to the Elite "choir" here.

Any more detail and they may well be ruined.

I also still love the Empyreans for pure musical enjoyment. Sure; they're not on the technical level of the Elite but you just get lost in the music with that wonderful bass bloat tuning .
It's all personal taste of course. They are perfect for me but they might not be for you.

I second what you say here, at least the first half of your comment. Both the Empyrean and Elite scale very well, especially the Elite because the limits there are higher. Sure, most high-end headphones scale well, but only some of them sound alright with entry level gear. Others sound disappointing, even unlistenable on 'cheap' DAC/amps. The Meze TOTLs sound alright from cheap gear, but I think it is generally overlooked how well they scale. Possibly for the very reason that they sound alright from a few hundred dollar DAP too.
Plug the Elite into a higher-end desktop gear with some nice aftermarket cables and you almost get a different headphone IMO: more space, more control, more depth, more details, better impact, clarity and resolution...
I like the Empyrean too, but to my ears the Elite is such an improvement in everything that my Empy had to find a new home. I know, other Elite owners still enjoy the Empy flavour too.

 

[turbofeet]

Yeah the Empys are a guilty pleasure really

 

[tcode]

I absolutely hate alcantara pads on Empyreans. But adore them on Elites.

 

[TheMiddleSky]

When I listen to a HP,just as when I listen to an amp or a DAC I want to hear exactly what is on the recording..I want the HP that is the most detailed as well as having all the other subjective qualities such as soundstage and bass and imagining etc...I owned the empyrean and sold it almost immediately ..I havent heard the Elite but I assume it has the same softening sound...I will however say that it is a beautiful and comfortable HP

After tried all of the Meze line up, I realized at 2021 not only Audeze, but also Meze, just develop a little different approach to tune their headphone.

Start from Meze Elite, then Liric, Advart, and 109 Pro, all of them have different house tuning than Meze Empyrean, Rai Penta and 99 Walnut. "Old" tuning tend to darker and bassier. While newer tuning they add sparkle on top, tighten the bass, and make the soundstage expansive.

Say that you tried Empyrean and "judge" Elite based on that, seems like you judge LCD-5 based on LCD-4. Of course they great headphone, but the thuning is rather different too, not orange vs orange (in term of house sound). The most stable brand (high end) that stick to their house sound is ZMF afaik.

For instance, actually I'm not a Meze fanboy, I dislike many of their products, and Empyrean is one high end headphone that I still don't like till now. Elite, on the other hand, I fall in love so hard with this beautiful beast.

Hey folks!

Looking for a high-end music production headphone. Mixing/Mastering/Sound Design... From what I can read, and I've spent a ridiculous amount of time researching, it would seem that all points to the Audeze LCD-5. I take comfort very seriously though because these are on my head while I am concentrating very hard... Also, I'm not a huge fan of how the Audeze headphones look... That's why I've been eyeing the Meze Elite. However, it seems that many would say that they aren't suited for this application. Is this objectively true? Should I just look elsewhere?

I got a lot of question or have to explain about which headphone is the best for studio use. My answer always the same, the most accurate sounding headphone for mastering is the one you think the right one. No one can answer it. If you tried many headphones that marketed or famous in studio use, all of them actually sound diffferent too. You need to let your ears to judge it. One of my friend who a famous sound enginner here in my country, had Senn HD820 and LCD-4 for his work (and already demoed so many other headphones). I could imagine hardcore head-fier may complain about it, but hey, that guy did his job marvelously.

Having said that, if you think LCD-5 is the right tool (after you tried it), then I suggest you need to try DCA Expanse. If you think Meze Elite is your thing, do let us know too haha.

 

[betula]

After tried all of the Meze line up, I realized at 2021 not only Audeze, but also Meze, just develop a little different approach to tune their headphone.

Start from Meze Elite, then Liric, Advart, and 109 Pro, all of them have different house tuning than Meze Empyrean, Rai Penta and 99 Walnut. "Old" tuning tend to darker and bassier. While newer tuning they add sparkle on top, tighten the bass, and make the soundstage expansive.

Say that you tried Empyrean and "judge" Elite based on that, seems like you judge LCD-5 based on LCD-4. Of course they great headphone, but the thuning is rather different too, not orange vs orange (in term of house sound). The most stable brand (high end) that stick to their house sound is ZMF afaik.

For instance, actually I'm not a Meze fanboy, I dislike many of their products, and Empyrean is one high end headphone that I still don't like till now. Elite, on the other hand, I fall in love so hard with this beautiful beast.

There are some good and interesting points here. I agree with most of your assessments and feel the same way about Meze and Audeze. I actually really like the LCD line sound (2, 3, 4, X), but not the LCD5. Audeze admittedly took a more studio sound-like approach as opposed to the warmer and darker 'audiophile' sound which was loved and hated by many. The LCD-X was their most successful model by far and originally they intended that for studio use as well. (But the X is still great for music listening too.) The new MM500 and LCD5 in my opinion are a lot more neutral and machine-like precision tools for studio use. Perhaps they can sell more for that audience, but I think they also lost a few followers with such a radical change in house sound.

Regarding Meze they are also a fabulous company, but I couldn't really connect with most of their products (I am yet to hear the 109Pro). I quite like the Advar but never really liked the original 99 or 99Neo or the Rai Penta, also not that keen on the Liric (although for a closed back it is good). I loved the Empyrean quite a bit, but since the Elite came out I personally can't see the point listening to them. Each to their own of course, this is only my take.

 

[artisandro]

What I don't get is some reviewers stating that the Meze Elite is technically not as good as the LCD-5. I'm an audio engineer, and I can't understand what they base that assessment on?

I can see that the Meze Elite THD is better than Audeze LCD-5. I can see that the Elite's resolution is 3Hz - 112KHz, whereas the Audeze LCD-5 caps at 50KHz. Yeah, we can't hear that high or low, but that is a statement of the operating frequency, which means that when we reach the range of human hearing, that the headphones are outputting well above & below that operating frequency, meaning less distortion. These are marginal, I know. But why would someone like Resolve, claim objectively that the Meze Elite is not technically up to the level of the Audeze LCD-5? Could someone explain to me what this is based on? He must be aware that an FR that focuses on mids would sound more "detailed", right? That's an EQ issue? So, I think I must be missing something here...

Resolve placed the Meze Elites in Tier 3, even with EQ, in his tier list... Whereas the LCD-5s feature at Tier 1, 2nd place. And I consistently hear from reviewers that the Meze Elite are, technically not up to par to the LCD-5. Could someone explain to this idiot (me) what I am missing? Are the components of a lesser quality?

Appreciate the time, folks... Hope you're all having a nice weekend

 

[baneand]

I would also like to know this from @artisandro - specifically if someone can use one song as an example and say "in this song on 1:25 you can hear this on lcd-5 but on elite you hear it like this"

 

[ThanatosVI]

What I don't get is some reviewers stating that the Meze Elite is technically not as good as the LCD-5. I'm an audio engineer, and I can't understand what they base that assessment on?

I can see that the Meze Elite THD is better than Audeze LCD-5. I can see that the Elite's resolution is 3Hz - 112KHz, whereas the Audeze LCD-5 caps at 50KHz. Yeah, we can't hear that high or low, but that is a statement of the operating frequency, which means that when we reach the range of human hearing, that the headphones are outputting well above & below that operating frequency, meaning less distortion. These are marginal, I know. But why would someone like Resolve, claim objectively that the Meze Elite is not technically up to the level of the Audeze LCD-5? Could someone explain to me what this is based on? He must be aware that an FR that focuses on mids would sound more "detailed", right? That's an EQ issue? So, I think I must be missing something here...

Resolve placed the Meze Elites in Tier 3, even with EQ, in his tier list... Whereas the LCD-5s feature at Tier 1, 2nd place. And I consistently hear from reviewers that the Meze Elite are, technically not up to par to the LCD-5. Could someone explain to this idiot (me) what I am missing? Are the components of a lesser quality?

Appreciate the time, folks... Hope you're all having a nice weekend

There is no objective measure that the Elite is less resolving than the LCD-5, this is just the reviewers personal opinion.

As of why he thinks that, I'm afraid only resolve himself can answer.

 

[betula]

What I don't get is some reviewers stating that the Meze Elite is technically not as good as the LCD-5. I'm an audio engineer, and I can't understand what they base that assessment on?

I can see that the Meze Elite THD is better than Audeze LCD-5. I can see that the Elite's resolution is 3Hz - 112KHz, whereas the Audeze LCD-5 caps at 50KHz. Yeah, we can't hear that high or low, but that is a statement of the operating frequency, which means that when we reach the range of human hearing, that the headphones are outputting well above & below that operating frequency, meaning less distortion. These are marginal, I know. But why would someone like Resolve, claim objectively that the Meze Elite is not technically up to the level of the Audeze LCD-5? Could someone explain to me what this is based on? He must be aware that an FR that focuses on mids would sound more "detailed", right? That's an EQ issue? So, I think I must be missing something here...

Resolve placed the Meze Elites in Tier 3, even with EQ, in his tier list... Whereas the LCD-5s feature at Tier 1, 2nd place. And I consistently hear from reviewers that the Meze Elite are, technically not up to par to the LCD-5. Could someone explain to this idiot (me) what I am missing? Are the components of a lesser quality?

Appreciate the time, folks... Hope you're all having a nice weekend

Resolve and other reviewers at headphones.com simply don't like the Elite and Empyrean. Other reviewers like Lachlan at Passion for sound value the Elite higher than the LCD5. It is all about personal preference even with these 'reviewers'. That's what people should understand.

 

[artisandro]

I get the subjective element. I totally get it. But making a statement like, and I quote from Resolve's headphone tier list, "It just doesn’t have the technical chops to compete for sound quality.", to me, is a damning statement. It suggests that the Elite, fundamentally, can't compete with what he considers tier 1 headphones on a technical level, which doesn't make sense to me from my own research... There's nothing that would suggest that anything besides tuning, soundstage, are major differences between the two headphones (given all other variables remain constant).
What sucks is that, for mixing and mastering, I would have to use both headphones for months to be able to draw my own conclusion, so was hoping that there would be some honest/objective reviews out there. There are, pretty much, no reviews from a pro audio perspective... But I guess there's too much subjectivity involved, and multiple layers of personal bias, as well as affiliations, differing signal chains/cables, it's just a mess. It also seems reviewers read each others reviews, which increases the chances of them subconsciously parroting the same observations. So it's kind of my fault for assuming that objectivity was possible - looking for unicorns here.

It sucks because I'm forced to assume that the LCD-5 is my only option if I base my judgement on available information out there, because that's all I have available to me. I will have to get them, mix on them for a few months, then get the Elites, rinse and repeat, and only then will I be able to draw a conclusion. Of course I won't do that, meaning I'll just get the LCD-5, become accustomed to them and probably stay there for life because that's just what I got used to first, and I don't have the time/money to review different headsets, because I just don't have the resources to do that. My resources are dedicated to other audio equipment that I need to do what I do, so having 3-4 headphones and comparing them, well, it's just not in this lifetime that I would be destined to do that.

What I don't like is that I put the LCD-5s on my head to judge comfort, and they're, uhm, OK at best... The Elites were more comfortable. I didn't even bother listening because both were hooked up to different DACs, and the dealer was adamant that they both work better with the respective DACs, so it just wouldn't even be fair to compare them on the spot because I know that's not how ears work. It takes a long time to get used to a sound signature... I'll end up choosing what I like more on the spot which isn't necessarily what I need for mixes that translate.

And yeah, I asked Lachlan from Passion for Sound about his opinion. He responded, kindly, and stated that he didn't think there was more resolution in the LCD-5s compared to the Elites - which is what I expected from published measurements. In his opinion, both would be good for mixing/mastering and would require getting used to. I use reference tracks to mix and master anyway, so my concern was always whether or not the Elites were just technically inferior given all other factors were made constant. If the resolution is the same, I have access to EQ in order to adjust the FR, which could bring out more "details" if I dip the bass.
This isn't made any simpler by the fact that there are two different pads (Alcantara & Hybrid), and most audiophiles review based on the Hybrid, which has more bass and therefore, less clarity. I emailed Meze about this, and the customer support suggested using Alcantaras for critical listening.

Thanks for the feedback though folks, I'll have to make my decision soon, and will update here. Looking for reasons to choose an Elite over the LCD-5s, because I just don't like the comfort or the look of the Audeze (they look... old). But, at the end of the day, I will have to choose whatever will help me produce better results. And all I have to go by, are the reviews made by people. So, for better or worse, I am leaning towards the damn LCD-5s damn. How do you audiophiles cope with this!?!? rofl

 

[ThanatosVI]

I get the subjective element. I totally get it. But making a statement like, and I quote from Resolve's headphone tier list, "It just doesn’t have the technical chops to compete for sound quality.", to me, is a damning statement. It suggests that the Elite, fundamentally, can't compete with what he considers tier 1 headphones on a technical level, which doesn't make sense to me from my own research... There's nothing that would suggest that anything besides tuning, soundstage, are major differences between the two headphones (given all other variables remain constant).
What sucks is that, for mixing and mastering, I would have to use both headphones for months to be able to draw my own conclusion, so was hoping that there would be some honest/objective reviews out there. There are, pretty much, no reviews from a pro audio perspective... But I guess there's too much subjectivity involved, and multiple layers of personal bias, as well as affiliations, differing signal chains/cables, it's just a mess. It also seems reviewers read each others reviews, which increases the chances of them subconsciously parroting the same observations. So it's kind of my fault for assuming that objectivity was possible - looking for unicorns here.

It sucks because I'm forced to assume that the LCD-5 is my only option if I base my judgement on available information out there, because that's all I have available to me. I will have to get them, mix on them for a few months, then get the Elites, rinse and repeat, and only then will I be able to draw a conclusion. Of course I won't do that, meaning I'll just get the LCD-5, become accustomed to them and probably stay there for life because that's just what I got used to first, and I don't have the time/money to review different headsets, because I just don't have the resources to do that. My resources are dedicated to other audio equipment that I need to do what I do, so having 3-4 headphones and comparing them, well, it's just not in this lifetime that I would be destined to do that.

What I don't like is that I put the LCD-5s on my head to judge comfort, and they're, uhm, OK at best... The Elites were more comfortable. I didn't even bother listening because both were hooked up to different DACs, and the dealer was adamant that they both work better with the respective DACs, so it just wouldn't even be fair to compare them on the spot because I know that's not how ears work. It takes a long time to get used to a sound signature... I'll end up choosing what I like more on the spot which isn't necessarily what I need for mixes that translate.

And yeah, I asked Lachlan from Passion for Sound about his opinion. He responded, kindly, and stated that he didn't think there was more resolution in the LCD-5s compared to the Elites - which is what I expected from published measurements. In his opinion, both would be good for mixing/mastering and would require getting used to. I use reference tracks to mix and master anyway, so my concern was always whether or not the Elites were just technically inferior given all other factors were made constant. If the resolution is the same, I have access to EQ in order to adjust the FR, which could bring out more "details" if I dip the bass.
This isn't made any simpler by the fact that there are two different pads (Alcantara & Hybrid), and most audiophiles review based on the Hybrid, which has more bass and therefore, less clarity. I emailed Meze about this, and the customer support suggested using Alcantaras for critical listening.

Thanks for the feedback though folks, I'll have to make my decision soon, and will update here. Looking for reasons to choose an Elite over the LCD-5s, because I just don't like the comfort or the look of the Audeze (they look... old). But, at the end of the day, I will have to choose whatever will help me produce better results. And all I have to go by, are the reviews made by people. So, for better or worse, I am leaning towards the damn LCD-5s damn. How do you audiophiles cope with this!?!? rofl

Maybe I'm ignorant, but from all your research and what you've written in this post there are a few things of note imo:
1. You have a slight preference for the Elite based on comfort and looks.
2. There is no objective reason to believe that the Elite is less resolving than the LCD-5
3. You have personal impressions from reviewers which claim that the LCD-5 is more resolving (resolve) and that both are equal in that regard (lachlan)

Based on this I don't see why you shouldn't pick the Elite and be happy.
Both will enable you to produce in high quality