[falang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob E. /img/forum/go_quote.gif Set-up your M6 to the settings I mentioned midway in that post, and you be the judge. If you tell me then, that the Sony really does sound better. I'm willing to believe you. Maybe I will buy one. And I truly am very curious. It shouldn't take you any longer than it took me to compose that lengthy PM to you.

I agree with you & shigzeo. The eq settings are deep and useful. However, I have played with every possible permutation of eq settings and I still hold firm to my thoughts on page 1 of this thread.

Edit: testing your settings out and duking out a head-to-head as we speak.

 

[falang]

Headphones: UM2

Meizu SP (configured as per Rob's instructions) vs Sony A818

Meizu settings: Flat EQ; Spatializer = normal; PCE = 5; bass = 2, treble = 2; Volume 13

Sony settings: Flat Eq; Clear Bass = 1; Volume 14

Songs tested: The Crane Wife by The Decemberists, Worthy of Your Esteem by Hayden, Silent Shout by The Knife, Flightless Bird, American Mouth by Iron & Wine

My thoughts:

The Crane Wife (rock)- Wow the Meizu sounds fantastic on this song. Full of life and rhythm. The drums sound really great here...my head is bouncing. Overall the presentation is very airy, like being at a concert.

On the Sony, the song sounds a little laid back. The drums are not as catchy as the Meizu's. Sounds like a clean studio experience.

Winner: Meizu

Worthy of Your Esteem (laid back rock): The Meizu sounds airy once gain on this track. There's a great synthesizer loop throughout this song and on the Meizu it is hiding in the background. The guitar solos sound pleasant but rather subdued.

The Sony shines with this song. The synthesizer sounds more in front, not hiding. The guitar solos take the center stage and envelop my ears with an expansive soundstage.

Winner: Sony

Silent Shout (electronic) - This is close. I think I prefer the cleaner, less airy sound of the Sony over the Meizu. However, this song sounds great on both.

Winner: draw

Flightless Bird, American Mouth (singer-songwriter) - The Sony sounds much cleaner here. The Meizu is overly airy on Sam Beam's hushed vocals and just craps all over this peaceful song.

Winner: Sony

My conclusion is that these are both great players. Rob, your settings are great for some music, but can be detrimental to the sound of others. However, the great thing about the Meizu is that it is capable of complex customization, so I'm sure after some heavy tinkering, this baby could produce exactly the sound you want to hear.

A few things I did notice is that Meizu hisses more than the Sony and the Sony presents a wider soundstage on songs that emphasize such a trait (Worthy of Your Esteem).

With regard to sound, these are both solid players. However, I would still take the Sony for its form factor, the simplistic, yet sharp UI, and its general ease of use. Navigating the Meizu (SP) can be cumbersome, and it doesn't seem logical. The touchstrip is annoying. The menus are scattered and not easy to access.

Hope this meets your shoot-off requirements.

I need to take a break.
Cheers.

 

[Rob E.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by falang /img/forum/go_quote.gif Headphones: UM2 Meizu SP (configured as per Rob's instructions) vs Sony A818 Meizu settings: Flat EQ; Spatializer = normal; PCE = 5; bass = 2, treble = 2; Volume 13 Sony settings: Flat Eq; Clear Bass = 1; Volume 14 ....... Hope this meets your shoot-off requirements. I need to take a break. Cheers.

This is really nice of you falang!!! I did post earlier to setup the 10 band eq to your own sonic preferences. So Thank You very much.

I didn't realize you'd be setting the EQ flat and also didn't know (or didn't remember) that you're using UM2's. What a coincidence,

so am I. Can I give you an EQ curve to try?

UM2's are kind of forward in the mids and soft on top. The 10 band does permit some nice fine tuning on the M6. I think you'll open the sound up and get more clarity, presence and sparkle. You may find a similar improvement on the Sony also. Maybe not.

60:+1 150:+3 300:+3 550:0 1K:-2
2.5k:+1 5k:+3 10k:+5 16k:+6 20k:+5

If you don't care to try this; NP. I still very much respect your findings. and I appreciate you taking the trouble.

If you do try this curve on the M6, please post back your thoughts. You may find yourself liking the M6 more - or me less

and BTW, the SL doesn't hiss, at least as much as the SP.

You've already made some nice findings and so perhaps the Sony has the edge. Good. If you try this curve and listen again, maybe each will respectively sound better.

Thanks again & Regards,

Rob

 

[shigzeo]

i would love the meizu if only it did not hiss as much. i sold my um2 to get rid of the problem though! haha, are we the same people?

 

[falang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob E. /img/forum/go_quote.gif 60:+1 150:+3 300:+3 550:0 1K:-2 2.5k:+1 5k:+3 10k:+5 16k:+6 20k:+5

Those EQ settings work very well with the um2s! The Sony has since opened up and the detail has greatly improved. The Sony has only a 5 band EQ with +/- 3 above and below zero so I had to do a little extrapolating:

0.4: +1
1.0: -2
2.5: +1
6.3: +3
16: +3

Does look about right to you?

About the Meizu, are you sure the PCE settings should fall between 5 - 7? At zero it sounds the same as it would with the spatializer off, but 5 makes it a little too harsh or silibant for me. At level 2 or 3 sounds good to me.

Anyway, thanks for the suggestions. Now I wish the Sony had a 10 band equalizer.

Cheers.

 

[falang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif i would love the meizu if only it did not hiss as much. i sold my um2 to get rid of the problem though! haha, are we the same people?

I guess we have good taste. Which iems are you using now since getting rid of the um2s? Do you miss the um2s? Ha.

 

[Rob E.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by falang /img/forum/go_quote.gif Those EQ settings work very well with the um2s! The Sony has since opened up and the detail has greatly improved. Anyway, thanks for the suggestions. Now I wish the Sony had a 10 band equalizer. Cheers.

falang, thank you.
No matter the "toy" there's always gonna be something better. The trick is being happy with what one has. So the Sony it is... by a nose.

I still really enjoy the Meizu though. I'm happy that I was able to help you get more enjoyment from both players.

Best,
Rob

 

[DKaz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob E. /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi Kaz, Although you own both players, I find it very difficult to believe that the Sony sounds better, based on the Sony having a +1dB boost in the low and high frequencies (which, as you say adds a touch more to the sound).

First off, better is a completely subjective word. Yes the Sony has a VERY slight boost in the lower and upper frequencies. As Sig pointed out though it is nominal compared to other DAPs "colorization". The Meizu may also have colorization, but I have not found a graph detailing it's output, so how can you ASSUME that the Meizu is completely flat?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob E. /img/forum/go_quote.gif FWIW, I read your "reviews", of the two players though for now, my interest and focus is more on the Meizu. My 8Gb M6SL seems to have a few (slight) operational differences from what you've described. You're correct on the time it takes to update the library. Turn-off for me is practically instantaneous, and turn-on is about ten seconds. With "clean" well-recorded music, I'm hearing no low level hiss to speak of. Though at my age, my ears are certainly not what they once were. I do hear the tape hiss encoded onto all of the Mercury Living Presence CD's (purposefully done when these were digitised from analog). And FWIW, I'm mostly using UM2's and pod-modded iM716's for my listening.

I understand that certain songs have "hiss" recorded into them. I also understand that I have a very wide array of IEMs and have tested both units with several of them and teh very sensitive IEMs have shown a hiss when the music is paused.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob E. /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, your "review" notes many of Meizu's sound enhancement features, but from your description of some of them (or rather, lack-of description), I'm not convinced that you actually know how they work! Although you may. For example you say, "The spatializer is one the worst sound enhancements I have ever heard on a DAP." - you've written this as if it were an on/off switch, while in reality there are a few selectable choices within the Spatializer mode. Yes, it can be set to sound pretty horrible, but it can also be adjusted to nicely enhance the sound. Your discription of it is disingenious, and could lead those even less knowledgeable than you, to believe the wrong thing! You're well-meaning, but not a very good reviewer (at least yet).

I know exactly how ALL of sound settings work on both palyers. I played with them extensively and can say that at no point did I find that the spatializer ever enhanced the sound of any song. I am also confused how you did. You bring to light the slight boost in the Sony which makes me beleive that you want a completely flat output and then state that the spatializer in the Meizu can "enhance the sound". Bose enhances sound to? Do you prefer their products?

You are entitled to your opinion, but I am a very unbiased reviewer and was writing a brief description for these players to help out other head-fier's and encouraged them to PM me with questions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob E. /img/forum/go_quote.gif Though I do applaud your efforts. Please permit me this statement - as I've been reading (more like living & breathing), TAS, Stereophile and numerous other reviews for more than twenty five years.

I really do not care how many reviews that you have read. You can read all about formuale one racing, but until you drive the car you have no idea how it really handles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob E. /img/forum/go_quote.gif So... assuming you're using the sound effects adjustments for both players because if you're not it would be a waste of either players capabilities, and would completely invalidate your opinion of them (stated above).

I do nto understand how it would be a waste. If i do not use the EQ then the sound is not as good? Again why would you call out the Sony on a +1dB boost then? Some people prefer a flat sound. No coloration what so ever. So it would not invalidate anything if I did not use their settings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob E. /img/forum/go_quote.gif But I'm ready to accept your opinion if you're willing to take a few minutes, and take-up this challenge (of sorts) A little experiment if you will... Listening to your own music of choice set-up the Sony, with its sound effects set to however you most like them. Get the best sound out of it you can - whatever best suits your ear. Do the same with the Meizu, setting it's (user-defined) ten band EQ to however you like it best. Next, turn the Spatializer on. Set the Spatializer Mode to Normal. (the other two modes are of limited use - there's no need here to give my opinion of them). Set the Phase Corrected Equalizer to somewhere between 5 & 7 whatever suits you. Virtual Bass should be off. Lastly, adjust the separate Bass Boost & Treble Boost to fine tune your music. This with the understanding that the frequency sliders aren't overused in your 10 band EQ settings.

I have listened to both units EXTENSIVELY (as stated above) and have the exact settings that I like. With and without sound enhancements I prefer the Sony. I am not biased. I loved my Meizu. LOVED IT . . . until I bought the Sony. By the way, the Sony has a fantastic crossfeed built in that the Meziu does not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob E. /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's it. YOU be the judge. I'm willing (at least for now), to accept your opinion that the Sony sounds better - if indeed it does. Please post back your findings.

drum roll please .. . . . . . . . THE SONY. WITH OR WITHOUT EQ!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob E. /img/forum/go_quote.gif For the record. I'm "joe purist". No EQ or tone controls - though I've "toyed" with them. I listen to and enjoy digital but I'm all-tube analog. I've owned a very nice compliment of high end equipment over the years. I'm an experienced listener - though I make no claim to fame. I've just been at it a long time. Re: Portable audio at this level of equipment, I think it's a mistake to not use tone controls if they're available. It's a blast and I'm having a lot of fun with it. I think that's the point of it all.

I think that you have confused more people then my reviews ever could. You goo back and forth -- colorization = bad, spatializer = good, no EQ = good, not using tone controls = bad. Make up your mind. You make people think the Sony is bad for a +1dB booost, but then praise the Meizu's sound enhancements.

All in All the Meizu is a GREAT player, but it was bested by Sony's new DAPs IN MY OPINION! Which appparently means nothing if I do not agree with Rob.

 

[shigzeo]

i miss the um2 insertion: easy as 1, 2. it was over in a couple of seconds. now i use the atrio m5 which i find to be a bit more soothing to my ears which were fatigued like mad with the um2. they are great but they take forever to get in my ears. by far the most engaging bass - i have heard in a canal or iem and yet not flabby. wonderful

what i miss about the um2 is the cable and insertion ease. the atrio have a great cable, but nothing like the um2 - that is indeed one of a kind.

 

[DKaz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob E. /img/forum/go_quote.gif SQ is a personal thing. We all hear differently, have different sonic priorities, and the equipment has different sound signatures. To each their own Variety's a wonderful thing. We're not speaking of night and day sonic differences. And from all the audiophiles I've known - there's no accounting for some peoples ears. Yes, I've read some folks prefer the Cowon, but there are some who prefer the Meizu. So what? Firmware? Come on... Meizu is as prolific a company as any in updating firmware. I purchased a 4Gb miniplayer which had FW v.2004.4 installed. Six weeks later an 8Gb of the same model (M6 SL) I bought had FW v.2004.5. Is Cowons FW better? Let's agree that each company does a good job in addressing the shortcomings of their sw..

SQ IS a personal thing. So why challenge other people's opinions? Meizu has to keep updating their firware because of the immense amount of bugs that continue to be found (check out meizume.com). Yet the have not addressed people's biggest complaints (read the forum if you want to know what they are).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob E. /img/forum/go_quote.gif Touchscreen interface? Yeah right. That's a lot of fun. Some love it - some don't. Personally, I've had enough of touchscreens with my Palms & iPaqs. A touchscreen on my DAP isn't what I'm looking for. With the Meizu in my pocket sight unseen (at least) I can raise & lower the volume, and turn it on and off. Try that on the D2. Let's move on. Features? Where's the Meizu lacking? With any machine, there are always those who wish it had something else, while others don't use all the features it does have. In this case it has a great variety of useful features. Please understand - I think the D2's a great machine based on what I've read and seen, and maybe one day I'll buy one. I'm not putting it down (at all). I'm taking issue with the proliferation of ramdomly passed on (not very meaningful) opinions which try to serve as fact - when in reality they're not.

I m not a fan of touch screens either. That being said, I am not a fan of Meizu's touchstrip or the UI. The strip can be very sensitive and can interpret a swipe as a tap or vice versa. The Sony's tactile contols obviously never have this problem. Also with the sony I can change the volume, track, ecen EQ settings in my pocket because the UI is that good. Only 3 clicks will take you anywhere.

 

[DKaz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob E. /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hiya falang. How you doing? Your opinion doesn't count here. Specifically because you have the SP and it's sonically different from the SL. And also because your machine is broken, and you're not really in a position to compare them. I hope you get yours fixed soon! Even better, upgrade it to an SL

Rob your opinion does not count here. Yo uhave not owned the Sony. How can you participate in a Sony versus Meizu discussion? You rave about the Meizu and imply (maybe not intentionaly) that the Meizu is better. You acn add the strengths you find in the Meizu but do not downplay what others find in the Sony since you have not experienced them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob E. /img/forum/go_quote.gif P.S. - I'm not sure DKaz was getting the best sonically out of his M6SL. I hope he adjusts the sound effects to what I'd asked (even temporarily) and does re-post his impressions after comparing them.

Why would you think as a reviewer I would not try out all the different sound enhancements that were offered? Is it because I did not state that I have read magazines for 20 years and posted about all the high-end home audio equipment I own. I can run down the list if it will really help your opinion.

 

[DKaz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob E. /img/forum/go_quote.gif falang, Have a little mercy on my wallet, at least temporarily. Inasmuch as you do have a useable SP. Please. Refer to my (lengthy) post above to DKaz. He admittedly doesn't use the Spatializer, and doesn't make (any) mention of that very nice sounding Phase Compensated Equalizer slider.

No I do not use the spatializer and I don't see what the point eliminates my opinion. It distracts from the original recording to much IMHO. Oddly enough I thought you would feel the same since you are "joe purist"

 

[robojack]

I suppose it is different for everyone. I personally like the touchscreen of my D2 a LOT. While I was previously used to using physical controls to navigate, I found myself getting used to a touchscreen interface very quickly, even preferring it in many cases. Plus with Flash UI capability, I'm now able to select a touch interface that suits me.

As for hiss, I never noticed much, or any of it even with my Super.fi 5 Pro's, which are pretty sensitive IEMs (being balanced armatures-based like the UM2s).

 

[DKaz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by falang /img/forum/go_quote.gif My conclusion is that these are both great players. Rob, your settings are great for some music, but can be detrimental to the sound of others. However, the great thing about the Meizu is that it is capable of complex customization, so I'm sure after some heavy tinkering, this baby could produce exactly the sound you want to hear. A few things I did notice is that Meizu hisses more than the Sony and the Sony presents a wider soundstage on songs that emphasize such a trait (Worthy of Your Esteem). With regard to sound, these are both solid players. However, I would still take the Sony for its form factor, the simplistic, yet sharp UI, and its general ease of use. Navigating the Meizu (SP) can be cumbersome, and it doesn't seem logical. The touchstrip is annoying. The menus are scattered and not easy to access.

X2! Falang I could not agree with you more.

 

[falang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKaz /img/forum/go_quote.gif X2! Falang I could not agree with you more.

Dkaz is on a mission. Anyway, now on to the dirty question of the night: Do you eq? If so, what are your settings?

Cheers.