McChanson amps tube rolling thread
May 25, 2024 at 10:25 PM Post #721 of 976
Basically the thing @crakers7 just described, something is acting like an antenna in your setup and the tube resonates out of control. The EL3's tend to do the although not that often. Before I started building adapters I used to resell tubes, my tube tester was something that I built myself and when testing an EL3 I had to switch it on and get 3-4 meters back, or the same thing was happening. One can try putting ferrite filters on the cable for the top cap, they probably won't help as the plate is on top, but still worth the effort.
Thanks for this advice , so the problem is with the EL81 tube , not the adapter ? It's just strange that it happened with both pairs that are very different . Also why would the mA vary so much , is that also part of the resonance problem ?
 
May 26, 2024 at 2:23 AM Post #722 of 976
Thanks for this advice , so the problem is with the EL81 tube , not the adapter ? It's just strange that it happened with both pairs that are very different . Also why would the mA vary so much , is that also part of the resonance problem ?

The problem is 50/50, the tube is sensitive and something in the setup is allowing it to run out of control ( probably the adapter). And yes the plate current is a direct result of the oscillations.
 
May 26, 2024 at 5:27 AM Post #723 of 976
So I think it's time to unravel the mysterious built-in caps and tell you what's inside.
Since the installation I have heard enough to know that it is great in the Ultimate.
It's been about 35 hours since the rebuild and I've heard almost half of it, and although they're still fresh it's getting better rather than worse at this point.

First of all, there are 1-2 things to consider (and also out of respect and promise to Eric I can't show any pictures of the conversion).

Firstly, if you decide to insulate the silver wires, I would insulate them with a hose.
Secondly, and this is the more important thing, the cap must also be insulated from the outside with heat-shrink tubing.
As it is copper-coated on the outside and can be electrically conductive.
Typical examples are metal frames and cover plates, so it is important to insulate them with heat-shrink tubing.

Again for the installation, the size with 630V/0.47 uf is a monster bigger than the Vcap and probably Milfex level in size (I thought Vcap was already a part but this one surpasses it).
You definitely need space for it, so you should think about it a bit beforehand and see where you can place it.
If you order a completely new Ultimate, I'm sure Eric will find ways and means, as it's easier with a new construction than a finished Ultimate.
And it is also heavy and should be fixed a good bit.
Velcro tape, for example, is a good solution: one piece on the cap and the other on the plate.

The rest is child's play for an experienced hand.
It took me 3 hours to do it in peace and quiet without stress, and the placement took me the most time as you can do it on the finished Ultimate.

I present it is the Audionote Copper:
(In the picture below you can see the difference in size)

20240523_124216.jpg


Here it has been insulated with transparent shrink tubing, which I bought from Hificollectiv.
It is also very easy to cut off a slightly larger piece of the length of the capacitor and carefully pull it over and heat it with a hot air gun until it has enclosed itself, done.Is the most important part.


20240523_124808.jpg

Here are the differences between the caps:
Mundorf looks really tiny in comparison.

20240523_150945.jpg

Connections:

A vertical line is drawn on the right-hand side of the cap and is to be used as the input signal.
Solder the ‘negative pole’ to the tube socket as seen.

Precautions:

After installation, check everything again to make sure that everything is in place.
It is best to take old or almost used tubes and find the ones where they are bad, which is a bit difficult with Ultimate.
Pay attention to certain things the first time, your hand should be near the switch off.
And if Ultimate remains unresponsive, leave it running for 10-20 minutes so that everything can normalise.
Sound:
What I had heard so far after switching it on for the first time was oh, wow.
You immediately realised where it was going when the right tubes were in.
Although my Gec KT63 and 12At7 RCA JRC were not played in, it sounded really magical.
In the Auteur as well as the Atrium, the Auteur paints a really good picture of its neutral tuning and the sound signature is really good.
With Atrium, everything is even more intense with a little more power behind it.
What has impressed me the most so far is the bass, which reaches down into the basement and is powerful, with a really good foundation and body from top to bottom.
The midrange is marvellous, it's smooth, open, transparent in the right doses, an absolute sweet spot.
You can really sit back and enjoy listening to the vocals with the right effect.
The treble varies a little depending on the tube, the Gec KT63 is a little weak and it's not quite enough for the top end, but with other tubes it is.
I have rolled in some finished tubes that are already over 100h+.
And it's marvellous.
Instruments were also impressive, I thought I had heard the best with the vcap.
I was wrong, the Audionote is really authentic, the plucking, the drums, the violin, and all these things deserve the point here.
Tonally it's never boring and is always picked up, it's musically full of joy and colour.
The vocals are also a part that is predominantly very authentic, and I think the Vcap is slightly behind here too; it is more sensitive, tactile, rounded and a bit more emotional, genuine and open.
Dynamics and focus are also extremely good here, much more bite and power, the details really come into their own with the macrodynamics and focus.
Stage and presentation are also at a level of perfection.
With the Vcap I found that you can wander through the music like with a camera.
The Audionote is similar but less so, it's perhaps not quite as holographic but it's there to present music and it does that to the full.
Overall tactile, refined and inviting to listen to music.

Although it hasn't even been played in for half the time, which according to Audionote should be between 2 and 300 hours, this should also vary depending on the input voltage.
After 35 hours it already sounds great to me and, as already mentioned, that's what's left in it, no more new caps.
With Vcap and this makes it perfect with Ultimate in any position for any mood.
Vcap for slightly more holographic sessions and yet more light for the more analytical side because it is more neutral in comparison and Audionote for good round music and a breeze warmer in the sound image than the Vcap.
There's nothing wrong with either of them, they both do the right thing, but there are some differences in the music here and there.
Considering what it costs $90 plus tax roughly for one and $335 (VH Audio does not offer a discount for 2 caps at Hificolektiv).
Does the AN play at the top without having to empty your wallet or sacrifice your arm?
Is the price-performance ratio right for a really good audio experience?

Audionote vs Mundorf SGO:

If you were to ask me which is better, I have an opinion that might not appeal to everyone.
Also, because it's Eric and Matt's house configuration, I don't want to offend either of them, and I don't want those who already have Ultimate to think twice about it.
And although it is a German company and I grew up in Germany
my personal preference is not quite what the Germans do with the sound, and maybe I'm just one of the few who doesn't like it that much, but out there I do and I always find people who like it.
The Mundorf has some nice things here, no question,
But it lacks the final touch for me, a little more refinement, a little more clarity and transparency would be nice.
The treble and detail range is also not quite where I would like it to be.
It could illuminate much better and bring the details to the forefront.
The Audionote actually does a lot better here and that fulfils my personal requirements as described above.
Those who actually buy Ultimate should think about the Audionote, the surcharge compared to Mundorf is about 30-40$.
Those who already have Ultimate and are now thinking about it are well advised to forget the Vcap altogether.
Of course it's also a question of taste and personal preference.
But even the technical aspects of the Audionote are a good deal better and completely remove the small veil that the Mundorf has.
If you know both caps you can hear it.
The Audionote is also a good deal more lifelike and that's usually what you want, but it's also a matter of taste.

Conclusion:
I would repeat myself now.
With Zmf headphones, they are in perfect harmony with Ultimate.
Ultimate has changed for me after it replaced the Mundorf and again for the better.
Ultimately, you should ask yourself what you expect from the music.
Should it be more technical, more euphonic, have an almost lifelike instrumental presentation with beautiful vocals, then yes.
Even if headphones also play a part here, you reach the limit in such a way that it is not exaggerated.
The size can be scary but if you can manage it, it's worth it and will be rewarded if you also consider the other things when installing.
I think the price is really fair for what it delivers, there's nothing to complain about.
The fact that the caps have almost been rated at 35 h shows where things are heading.
With more playing time, it will go in a direction where it will be a good corner better than described. You should keep that in mind.
For those who didn't know, Audionote is historically a Japanese company, even today.
What you find in the EU also comes from there and is sold for Europe.
Since Ultimate was also made by Japanese hands, I am not surprised that it harmonises together. :ksc75smile: :ksc75smile: :ksc75smile: :ksc75smile: :ksc75smile: :ksc75smile:
Greg, thank you for your insight and respect for your work. I shy away from tinkering, especially as one of the Miflex is critically installed and doesn't sound bad on the other hand. I'm more interested in an easy-to-implement bypass, which, as far as I've read about it, is associated with sonic advantages...
A bypass is cheaper, could be attached to Miflex or Mundorf with crocodile clamps and tested 🤔
 
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May 26, 2024 at 7:03 AM Post #724 of 976
found the problem because of the Ecc35 and looks like a contact problem when it is in the socket from the socket saver.
If I tap the base a little with the pencil it gets better.
Is the question if you give the pins some heat or maybe some solder?
Otherwise the tube seems to work.

@crakers7
If you have an Ecc35 it is really great with the Kt63 Gec, it goes a good bit better than with 12At7 as driver tube, the sound is mucho gusto in every level.
 
May 26, 2024 at 7:09 AM Post #725 of 976
found the problem because of the Ecc35 and looks like a contact problem when it is in the socket from the socket saver.
If I tap the base a little with the pencil it gets better.
Is the question if you give the pins some heat or maybe some solder?
Otherwise the tube seems to work.

@crakers7
If you have an Ecc35 it is really great with the Kt63 Gec, it goes a good bit better than with 12At7 as driver tube, the sound is mucho gusto in every level.
OK that's good news , I have 2 different ECC35's and will try them with KT63
 
May 26, 2024 at 7:33 AM Post #726 of 976
OK that's good news , I have 2 different ECC35's and will try them with KT63

With pleasure.
I haven't heard the Gec Kt66 for a long time, and roughly from memory I would almost say it's very close.
I'll have to compare them when the Kt63s have had more playing time.
With 6F6 the driver tube makes an obvious difference.
All in all it seems to be a good tube also Brimar is very good as 6F6.
 
May 26, 2024 at 9:34 AM Post #727 of 976
Has anyone tried them in Ultimate or do you know what they sound like?
They were mentioned in the 6J5 thread, but not in terms of sound.

IMG_0994.png
 
May 26, 2024 at 9:48 AM Post #728 of 976
T
Has anyone tried them in Ultimate or do you know what they sound like?
They were mentioned in the 6J5 thread, but not in terms of sound.

IMG_0994.png
They are wonderfull drivers , I don't have that straight glass version but the 3 versions I have all sound great

IMG_2511.JPG
 
May 26, 2024 at 8:55 PM Post #732 of 976
Thanks guys.
Guess I'll have to find out when the adapter arrives I'll order some from the Gec's.
6J5Raytheon and RCA are on their way to me as well as 6C5 Visseaux, I was outbid on Ebay by 50 cents for the Ken Rad's, they would have been a real bargain.
If you are planning adapters for the GEC L63, not needed as they are a 6J5 variant.
 
May 26, 2024 at 9:00 PM Post #733 of 976
Speaking of GEC, I usually defer use of "the king of power tubes" GEC KT88 to keep them fresh for the future, but I do have a backup pair, and sometimes the future is now. They are outstanding, authoritative and pair especially well with the 12AT7. Here is Mullard EZ80, Visseaux 6F6GT, Amperex Bugle Boy 12AU7-ECC82 & GEC KT88:

Mullard EZ80, Visseaux 6F6GT, Amperex Bugle Boy 12AU7-ECC82 & GEC KT88 in UltimatE (5-26-24).jpg
 
May 26, 2024 at 10:06 PM Post #734 of 976
Speaking of GEC, I usually defer use of "the king of power tubes" GEC KT88 to keep them fresh for the future, but I do have a backup pair, and sometimes the future is now. They are outstanding, authoritative and pair especially well with the 12AT7. Here is Mullard EZ80, Visseaux 6F6GT, Amperex Bugle Boy 12AU7-ECC82 & GEC KT88:

Mullard EZ80, Visseaux 6F6GT, Amperex Bugle Boy 12AU7-ECC82 & GEC KT88 in UltimatE (5-26-24).jpg
Lovely, I have have been looking for a Pair of GEC KT88 for ages , most are too much $$$ or too used :pray:
 
May 27, 2024 at 1:31 AM Post #735 of 976
Received Deyan’s double adaptor this morning, it matches my Ultimate perfectly, no need to worry about sitting at the wrong angle in relation to the other tubes- the top rotates - fantastic, they should all be like this, put my cheap Russian 6S3P WoW how nice are these, got a pair of LaRadiotechnique EC86 coming for comparisons but the Ruskis are pretty darn good at a couple of $’s each.

IMG_7325.jpeg
 

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