Master Clock Talk

[camrector]

Not necessarily. An OCXO manufacturer usually try to have a small number of the highest spec OCXO on shelf or start producing based on orders. Like when building military airplanes with the same, identical parts, they still behave different in the air when flying and they have to be individually tested of skilled pilots who write descriptions of how to cancel a stall or a back spin. Same with OCXO's. Very few in a batch meet the spec and extremely few excceeds it. Most will fall below spec and from these unselected OCXO's, I am sure You can negotiate and buy number of these with a good discount. These unselected OCXO's are not very attractive on the market and the manufacturer will surely get some money for them instead of having them "laying around". I am pretty sure this is the case here.


In my world a Tesla-car priced spectrum analyzer is awful expensive

/Jan

This is not how it works at all
If you want to develop and sell a Master clock, you need components.
You call a OCXO manufacture and give a list of your needs and specs. Size, shape, voltage, phase noise etc etc etc
The manufacture either has a component or can make one and gives you a price per 500+ and a lead time for them to delivery.
For -110db your in the $300 range per OCXO
You pay pretty much upfront. You’re talking an outlay of $100000-$150000 for 500 OCXO that would measure at -110db@1hz.
Now you could be bad at business and just trust the manufacturer to meet your spec but I’d highly recommend picking up a Phase Noise Analyzer to protect your investment.
If components are out of spec beyond some tiny agreed upon +-, that would look really bad for these high precision companies, and you would be entitled to your money back.
Or randomly select 3-5 OCXOs and send them out to a third party for measurement to verify what you purchased (which is most likely what LHY did)

If you want links to OCXO manufactures so you can get your own quotes I’ll happily send you the contacts.
Or start here
https://www.mouser.com/c/passive-components/frequency-control-timing-devices/oscillators/ocxo-oscillators/?q=oven controlled crystal

 

[camrector]

Doesn't answer the question of why a device with such a 'dismal' spec can actually improve SQ as owners of these devices experience that should be, as you put it, 'detrimental to sound quality'.

Apparently there is a way on earth a company can produce a $700 OCXO with 'dismal' specs that actually does improve SQ in real world use. I could give a crap about the specs if my ears hear an improvement worth the value of the money I spent. My ears don't lie to me and that's all that counts.

That question can be answered by confirmation bias and/or “glorified tone-control” that was mentioned before.

 

[Thetaburn]

Just received the Ock2 from AliExpress. Was on sale for 500usd plus shipping.

Unfortunately, the LMR400 cable doesn't arrive till May 10th.

I am hoping the sound quality improves, if not......oh well.

According to ASR, I shouldn't have bought the Burson Soloist, as the SINAD and Dynamic range measures poorly, but I found it to sound quite enjoyable. Hoping it's the same for the OCK-2.

 

[GP123]

I briefly check a few datasheets from mouser and could not even find one that can achieve -110db@1Hz, let alone -115db@1Hz. I can only assume either LHY gets a great discount or sources from used OCXOs if the spec is real. I own a OCK-2 but could not hear any improvement feeding my R26. My friend has a -120 DIY clock based on used OCXO that I can clearly hear improvement but that costs over $1500 just in parts alone. I am sure if he wants to sell it it will be at least triple that amount.

 

[OCC7N]

Random: What ever we discuss on headfi. It makes us think. I like criticism and I appreciate every aspect. We should always "learn" to keep these kinds of discussions alive.

Im thankful for everything(informations, experience) I have access to on this forum. I have my hard times here and there, but never keep hard feelings against anybody here.

I have learned that people will justify there purchases, including myself. Its hard to stay objective. Its a learning curve.

 

[OCC7N]

Just received the Ock2 from AliExpress. Was on sale for 500usd plus shipping.

Unfortunately, the LMR400 cable doesn't arrive till May 10th.

I am hoping the sound quality improves, if not......oh well.

According to ASR, I shouldn't have bought the Burson Soloist, as the SINAD and Dynamic range measures poorly, but I found it to sound quite enjoyable. Hoping it's the same for the OCK-2.

This is fun....the simple word and letter...."I"....its always them, but "I" always wins.

 

[Presence]

Random: What ever we discuss on headfi. It makes us think. I like criticism and I appreciate every aspect. We should always "learn" to keep these kinds of discussions alive.

Im thankful for everything(informations, experience) I have access to on this forum. I have my hard times here and there, but never keep hard feelings against anybody here.

I have learned that people will justify there purchases, including myself. Its hard to stay objective. Its a learning curve.

And there are also times when one has to push back and not take any crap.
It IS a learning curve and I too am grateful for people sharing their experiences that have enriched my own listening experience.
Thanks for your post.

 

[PeterCraig]

Just received the Ock2 from AliExpress. Was on sale for 500usd plus shipping.

I am hoping the sound quality improves, if not......oh well.

I'm usually a late adopter, like to hear a lot of people's impressions before I take the plunge.

I bought an OCK2 last year, completely out of character for me to get something new on the market. I was looking for a push and FredA sort of coaxed me into it.

But yeah so glad I did.

Unfortunately we don't have the funds or the opportunity to hear everything but with some help from people on head-fi we can make smarter decisions.

Really for the price of a complete unit like this I would label the OCK2 as a great buy and would go for it again if I needed to.

 

[camrector]

Exactly
These things are highly specialized, and very expensive to produce. You’re not going to find them in $500 devices used and no amount of order discount would get you to a place where one of these $300 components would cost a company $20.

 

[camrector]

It boils down to experience. My personal experience is...

The BG7TBL is better than any internal Crystek 575-based clock
The AfterDark King is better than the BG7TBL
The AfterDark Emperor Triple Crown is better than the King

This is based on sound quality, although AfterDark back it up with personalised measurements for each device. This is what you pay the money for.
Also, don't skimp on the PSU, it makes a big difference, too. I use a Zero Zone for each of my AfterDarks.

Just a side note too. Your internal Crystek 575 is 25.0MHz. So that’s 1.5 octaves above 10.0MHz. Those measure at -110dB (@ 10Hz offset) which is pretty equivalent to -119dB (@ 10Hz)it was a 10MHz clock. Very impressive for a $10 part!

 

[MartinWT]

Your internal Crystek 575 is 25.0MHz. So that’s 1.5 octaves above 10.0MHz. Those measure at -110dB (@ 10Hz offset) which is pretty equivalent to -119dB (@ 10Hz)it was a 10MHz clock. Very impressive for a $10 part!

Well now, you've hit on a point that has puzzled me, and I've consulted a friend in the industry about it, too. The Crystek 575 has, on paper, good specs, but it sounds harsh and edgy in two components I have owned: the EtherREGEN and the LKS MH-DA004. For the EtherREGEN the cure is to use an external clock (AfterDark King) and for the LKS, which I no longer have, the cure was to have the Crystek replaced with a better clock (Coherent).

So, despite phase noise being a decent indication of sound quality, there is still more about the sound of a clock than we fully understand.

 

[camrector]

Well now, you've hit on a point that has puzzled me, and I've consulted a friend in the industry about it, too. The Crystek 575 has, on paper, good specs, but it sounds harsh and edgy in two components I have owned: the EtherREGEN and the LKS MH-DA004. For the EtherREGEN the cure is to use an external clock (AfterDark King) and for the LKS, which I no longer have, the cure was to have the Crystek replaced with a better clock (Coherent).

So, despite phase noise being a decent indication of sound quality, there is still more about the sound of a clock than we fully understand.

I’ve never heard of anyone ever saying the EtherRegen sounded harsh.

 

[MartinWT]

I’ve never heard of anyone ever saying the EtherRegen sounded harsh.

Only relatively, but listen directly afterwards to an EtherREGEN with external clock and you'll hear what I mean.

 

[peareye]

Just received the Ock2 from AliExpress. Was on sale for 500usd plus shipping.

Unfortunately, the LMR400 cable doesn't arrive till May 10th.

I am hoping the sound quality improves, if not......oh well.

According to ASR, I shouldn't have bought the Burson Soloist, as the SINAD and Dynamic range measures poorly, but I found it to sound quite enjoyable. Hoping it's the same for the OCK-2.

where on aliexpress? I want one!

 

[Thetaburn]

where on aliexpress? I want one!

Lol.
You want to join the silicon lottery?
It was on sale a few weeks back.
You can try messaging them and ask for a price match.
I picked this seller cause they have been in business for 10 years.