[dougms3]

Anyone using the oyaide DB510 BNC cable for their master clock to dac?

I found this great review but would like to hear opinions directly from those who have it.

https://www.tweakfi.com/apps/blog/s...oaxial-cable-an-analog-sounding-digital-cable

Btw I love this quote.

Tweak-Fi
"If it measures good and sounds bad, it is bad. If it sounds good and measures bad, you've measured the wrong thing."

 

[Boomboy]

So my ock-2 arrived . All hooked up .
Did everyones ock- 2 or ock-1 come with a clock cable ? Mine did .. I didn't know that .

 

[skylinekursk]

gustard has C18 clock but I haven't seen any info here...strange.. dealer said it might be best of Chinese clocks today.. of course I don't trust dealers =))

 

[801evan]

I think c18 one of the best with an AC inlet just based on the spec sheet and internals.

 

[Jake2]

FYI there’s a really interesting, if robust and at times uncivil, recent discussion over in the AS ER master clock thread. I think I recognise few familiar usernames over there. Hi chaps. One of the interesting points being explored/debated is the extent to which clock synth introduces phase noise - one tester reckons it’s +35-40db, essentially (edit theoretically at least… if PN is all that is relevant) fully negating the benefit of external clocks. Alex of Uptone disagrees, stating that must’ve been a very poor synthesiser used by that tester, noting the ER1 adds less that 150 femto seconds of total RMS jitter.

Can someone who understands the relationship between phase noise in dbc and overall jitter better than I translate his latter figure into the phase noise db delta for me? Even at a ballpark +/-6db level? If that’s even possible…

I wonder how close my +20db guess is to the reality for Gustard’s K2. I guess could just ask Gustard, see what they say.

Due to said incivility, Alex has frozen the thread for a few days pending his next update, which from his past form, is always quality.

 

[801evan]

FYI there’s a really interesting, if robust and at times uncivil, recent discussion over in the AS ER master clock thread. I think I recognise few familiar usernames over there. Hi chaps. One of the interesting points being explored/debated is the extent to which clock synth introduces phase noise - one tester reckons it’s +35-40db, essentially fully negating the benefit of external clocks. Alex of Uptone disagrees, stating that must’ve been a very poor synthesiser used by that tester, noting the ER1 adds less that 150 femto seconds of total RMS jitter.

Can someone who understands the relationship between phase noise in dbc and overall jitter better than I translate his latter figure into the phase noise db delta for me? Even at a ballpark +/-6db level? If that’s even possible…

I wonder how close my +20db guess is to the reality for Gustard’s K2. I guess could just ask Gustard, see what they say.

Due to said incivility, Alex has frozen the thread for a few days pending his next update, which from his past form, is always quality.

.02ppm vs .01ppm is a big difference but so is psu quality where .5ppm can still beat either if it has a better psu.

 

[Jake2]

.02ppm vs .01ppm is a big difference but so is psu quality where .5ppm can still beat either if it has a better psu.

Cheers. The relative importance of a clock’s PSU quality (vs outright jitter/PN) point is made over in the AS ER thread too. But I’ll confess that I am conceptually struggling with the PSU’s mechanism of action in improving a clock’s performance if it is doing something other than lowering or at least not adversely affecting the measured phase noise/jitter.

Can you elaborate here?

FYI for my R26, for what it is worth, Gustard say in the manual:

REF CLOCK: R26’s built in clock is generated by Gustard-K2, a low noise clock synthesizer. With ultra-low phase noise, the synthesized clock has ultra-low jitter in femtosecond level, and can directly provided the near-end performance of the reference clock. Thanks to the high-precision divider, the frequency accuracy of its synthesized audio clock reaches ppb level.​

INT.: Built-in clock with jitter in femtosecond level.​

EXT.: 10Mhz external clock​

​

While for the U18 they say:

Reference clock selection (REF): By K2—Bustard’s (sic!) second generation audio frequency synthesizer, U18 can use external 10MHz clock to enhance the sound quality. Press REF button can switch internal clock (INT) and external 10MHz clock (EXT). Internal clock uses AS338 Hi- End oscillators from Accusilicon with ultra-low noise and jitter in fs level.​

 

[801evan]

Cheers. The relative importance of a clock’s PSU quality (vs outright jitter/PN) point is made over in the AS ER thread too. But I’ll confess that I am conceptually struggling with the PSU’s mechanism of action in improving a clock’s performance if it is doing something other than lowering or at least not adversely affecting the measured phase noise/jitter.

Can you elaborate here?

FYI for my R26, for what it is worth, Gustard say in the manual:

REF CLOCK: R26’s built in clock is generated by Gustard-K2, a low noise clock synthesizer. With ultra-low phase noise, the synthesized clock has ultra-low jitter in femtosecond level, and can directly provided the near-end performance of the reference clock. Thanks to the high-precision divider, the frequency accuracy of its synthesized audio clock reaches ppb level.​

INT.: Built-in clock with jitter in femtosecond level.​

EXT.: 10Mhz external clock​

​

While for the U18 they say:

Reference clock selection (REF): By K2—Bustard’s (sic!) second generation audio frequency synthesizer, U18 can use external 10MHz clock to enhance the sound quality. Press REF button can switch internal clock (INT) and external 10MHz clock (EXT). Internal clock uses AS338 Hi- End oscillators from Accusilicon with ultra-low noise and jitter in fs level.​

Clock performance is still dictated by voltage stability. One needs a lot of power filtering over phase noise performance. Phase noise performance means nothing if it's not getting good voltage stability.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

gustard has C18 clock but I haven't seen any info here...strange.. dealer said it might be best of Chinese clocks today.. of course I don't trust dealers =))

I think @JaMo reviewed it and said it was good for the money but he preferred something else, I cannot remember what.

 

[MartinWT]

FYI there’s a really interesting, if robust and at times uncivil, recent discussion over in the AS ER master clock thread. I think I recognise few familiar usernames over there. Hi chaps. One of the interesting points being explored/debated is the extent to which clock synth introduces phase noise - one tester reckons it’s +35-40db, essentially (edit theoretically at least… if PN is all that is relevant) fully negating the benefit of external clocks.

Whatever the exact figures, running a good external clock into the excellent Gustard K2 synth chip is demonstrably better in sound quality, and using a better LPSU running the clock further improves SQ. I said 'demonstrably' because it is very easily audible.

"If it sounds good but measures bad, you're measuring the wrong thing."

 

[sajunky]

One of the interesting points being explored/debated is the extent to which clock synth introduces phase noise - one tester reckons it’s +35-40db, essentially (edit theoretically at least… if PN is all that is relevant) fully negating the benefit of external clocks. Alex of Uptone disagrees, stating that must’ve been a very poor synthesiser used by that tester, noting the ER1 adds less that 150 femto seconds of total RMS jitter.

Can someone who understands the relationship between phase noise in dbc and overall jitter better than I translate his latter figure into the phase noise db delta for me? Even at a ballpark +/-6db level? If that’s even possible…

There is no direct relationship between jitter value dB and RMS value. The first one is a spectral density of jitter energy (frequency dependent between -160 and ~100dB, hudge difference). If not specified a range, then argumentation brought forward doesn't make a sense. Do it matter if adding a noise in the -160dB range? Besides, it is arguing on things that can be fixed, as PLL is very effective in filtering higher frequencies, it will bring back to the -160dB level again.

The RMS value is more meanful, it represent a total noise energy across specified wide frequencies range. If agreed that added 150fs noise is very low, then it implies that in the most critical frequency range (where noise carries the most of energy) a loss in dB value is also insignificant.

 

[sajunky]

Btw I love this quote.

Tweak-Fi
"If it measures good and sounds bad, it is bad. If it sounds good and measures bad, you've measured the wrong thing."

Added to my sig.

 

[roberto2]

Anyone using the oyaide DB510 BNC cable for their master clock to dac?

I found this great review but would like to hear opinions directly from those who have it.

https://www.tweakfi.com/apps/blog/s...oaxial-cable-an-analog-sounding-digital-cable

Btw I love this quote.

Tweak-Fi
"If it measures good and sounds bad, it is bad. If it sounds good and measures bad, you've measured the wrong thing."

I have found a second hand Oyaide DB510 and I have tried between the OCK-2 and my EtherRegen and compared to a Vertere D-FI with rca>bnc adapters.
The Oyaide cable sounds very different from the Vertere, the sound has much more authority, it's meatier, where the Vertere give a wider sound, more open but less organic. I was surprised on how much difference I could hear on the EtherRegen with two different clock cables. On the Audio-gd DI-20 the differences are less pronounced in my system.
Finally I left the Oyaide in place. I am very impressed by the build qualities of this cable, the connectors seem of the highest quality.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I posted a pic of the 50 ohm clock cables upthread, here is what I got today.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Added to my sig.

I have @Jandu wise words in my .sig