Massdrop x THX AAA™ 789 Linear Amplifier - Impressions Thread
Dec 18, 2018 at 9:43 AM Post #601 of 2,613
Very interesting. Is there an easy way (w/o soldering) to upgrade THX 789 with these Sparkos SS3602s, I wonder? If yes, how many of those would I need?

Checked the pictures of THX's internals on the other site and it seems like there is no easy way to upgrade. But, if I find the specialist to do the soldering, which op amps should be changed for Sparkos ones?
That's a question for @AndrewM888, I suppose.

Note that the SS3602 is a dual opamp, and the SS3601 is the single version. Amps with socketed opamps use different numbers and types of them. According to the teardown on ASR, the THX amp uses 2x TL062C, 4x OPA564 and 5x OPA1602A. At least the TL062C and the OPA1602A have eight pins, so mayyyybe they could be replaced. But they seem to use the smaller SO-8 package, so adapters to DIP-8 would be needed.
 
Dec 18, 2018 at 1:19 PM Post #602 of 2,613
That's a question for @AndrewM888, I suppose.

Note that the SS3602 is a dual opamp, and the SS3601 is the single version. Amps with socketed opamps use different numbers and types of them. According to the teardown on ASR, the THX amp uses 2x TL062C, 4x OPA564 and 5x OPA1602A. At least the TL062C and the OPA1602A have eight pins, so mayyyybe they could be replaced. But they seem to use the smaller SO-8 package, so adapters to DIP-8 would be needed.
I remember the justification for not making this amp fully balanced was the high cost of certain opamps. The opamps in the THX listed here cost from $0.20 to $3.30 each. I wonder what those expensive opamps are that didn't allow THX to make this amp fully balanced.

Alcophone, it's not really a question to you. I quoted your post because you listed the opamps in the THX.
 
Last edited:
Dec 18, 2018 at 1:27 PM Post #603 of 2,613
Between the H20 and the THX, the H20 with Sparkos SS3602s wins, then the THX, then the H20 with stock opamps.

In terms of tonality and sound stage, the H20+Sparkos combo and the THX amp are on par, I would say, but the THX blurs transients compared to the H20+Sparkos combo, sounding quite sterile in comparison as a result. There's more sparkle, slam, punch, heft - whatever you want to call it - to the H20+Sparkos. It's a more engaging, exciting presentation, putting me more in touch with the artist if that makes any sense. It feels more like I'm listening to someone playing an instrument than to a recording of someone playing an instrument. It's hard to identify what's going on when listening to just the THX amp, as there's nothing obviously objectionable, but going back and forth between the two with primarily recorded music (from 24/192 FLAC down to Spotify Premium), the difference becomes quite apparent.

Soften the transients a bit further, add a bit of noise and distortion, and you get close to the sound of the H20 with stock opamps. This also doesn't sound bad by itself, but as so often in audio, the deficiencies become clearer once they are gone. Both the THX amp and the H20 with Sparkos opamps sound more clear, clean and refined than the H20 with stock opamps.

All of the above is using the Yggdrasil's balanced out, with a Y-splitter cable into both amps balanced inputs at the same time, and using the MrSpeakers Ether Flow 1.0 with stock DUM cable out of the amps' 4-pin XLR jacks.
@Alcophone, do you notice in any way while listening that this amp in not fully balanced? I believe the H20 is fully balanced, and the Jotunheim that you also have if I recall correctly is known to be fully balanced. The creator of Yggdrasil adds one bit to its resolution for the fact that it's balanced (four 20-bit DAC chips result in 21-bit). I suppose we lose that extra bit of resolution when listening to Yggdrasil through the THX. I suppose it's not audible but I wonder if it's felt in any way.
 
Dec 18, 2018 at 8:00 PM Post #604 of 2,613
@Alcophone, do you notice in any way while listening that this amp in not fully balanced? I believe the H20 is fully balanced, and the Jotunheim that you also have if I recall correctly is known to be fully balanced. The creator of Yggdrasil adds one bit to its resolution for the fact that it's balanced (four 20-bit DAC chips result in 21-bit). I suppose we lose that extra bit of resolution when listening to Yggdrasil through the THX. I suppose it's not audible but I wonder if it's felt in any way.

Before I say anything, I should mention that I'm not an electrical engineer, just an enthusiast like you trying to wrap my head around certain concepts. Happy to get corrected where needed.

Merely using two n-bit DACs per channel does not result in n+1 bits of resolution if you are completely symmetrical, i.e. you feed both DAC chips inverse values, or the same value but with negative reference voltage on one chip (if that's possible from an engineering point of view, I don't know). It just doubles the difference between the effective signal levels, but you're not suddenly doubling the amount of distinct levels you can generate.
What you could do is change the lowest bit in what you send to one of the DACs. That should basically double the number of levels you can achieve as the difference between the levels of the two DAC chips. The resulting slight asymmetry should not matter.

If that is indeed what Schiit does in the Yggdrasil and Gungnir Multibit, then you would only lose that extra bit by completely throwing away one of the two signals per channel coming in via XLR. But even in single ended DACs with XLR input for convenience only there should be something that combines the two signals, converting them to single ended while retaining the extra resolution (much like what Yggy's single ended output should do) and properly rejecting transmission noise.

Anyway, on Massdrop, Andrew said this:
AndrewMason said:
Errata: The signal path internally is fully differential throughout (per Putzeys), but is NOT truly balanced in a few sections. We preserve the full signal integrity but we avoid increasing the retail price for no measurable benefit.
So that extra bit should not get lost. Even if it were, I don't know that I would be able to hear that - certainly only with very select recordings at high volume.

In another post, Andrew mentioned this article: https://www.edn.com/design/consumer/4429968/2/The-G-word--How-to-get-your-audio-off-the-ground
The way I understand it is that you can be differential by transmitting one variable signal with the actual audio, and a fixed zero level signal in addition. Distortion along the way affects both roughly equally, so if you subtract one from the other (differential), the error still gets cancelled out.
That makes sense to me when merely sending a signal between components, but less so in an amplifier. If the THX amp does this internally, it would have to first combine the balanced signal coming in to one variable signal and one zero signal, and then carry them through. The supposed benefit is a reduction of expensive components, so this way only the variable signal would need to get amplified, I suppose (instead of having two amplifiers per channel, which you need to be fully balanced). But that would also mean that any transmission interference would get amplified in one of the two signals, almost completely ruining the benefits of the differential approach. But maybe the amp correction magic is applied here. Or a less powerful amplifier can be used for the zero signal since the amplitude of any induced noise should remain low. I would love for Andrew to shed more light on this.
 
Dec 19, 2018 at 11:57 AM Post #606 of 2,613
Can some of you compare this to the built-in amp of RME ADI-2 DAC? Is it noticeably better / is there a noticeable difference?

RME's amp gets somewhat mixed reviews, often basically just "not sounding as good" as other stand-alone SS amps. In my case it replaced Lyr 2 with tighter lows and allover cleaner sound. Thanks!
 
Last edited:
Dec 19, 2018 at 12:53 PM Post #607 of 2,613
Or maybe the zero signal is not amplified at all...
Maybe, but then the error component becomes asymmetrical, so merely being differential doesn't remove it anymore. And I'm not sure there's another reliable reference that allows you to determine the error to correct it in the main signal.
 
Dec 19, 2018 at 7:24 PM Post #608 of 2,613
Can some of you compare this to the built-in amp of RME ADI-2 DAC? Is it noticeably better / is there a noticeable difference?

RME's amp gets somewhat mixed reviews, often basically just "not sounding as good" as other stand-alone SS amps. In my case it replaced Lyr 2 with tighter lows and allover cleaner sound. Thanks!

short answer yes it is better.
 
Dec 20, 2018 at 3:04 PM Post #611 of 2,613
I pulled the trigger on one this time around. I will be curious to see how it compares to the Liquid Platinum (which has been awesome).
 
Dec 20, 2018 at 3:34 PM Post #614 of 2,613
We're close to selling half of the inventory we received...

Here are a couple of video reviews that I have seen:

Lachlan Fennen

ZReviews

Josh Valour Review

Thank you everyone for your interest and support! Happy listening...
 
Dec 20, 2018 at 4:38 PM Post #615 of 2,613
How would you describe the THX 789 compared to the Aune X7S? I have the latter and I'm considering the former.
Sorry for the late reply I've not had much time to compare the two before I could give a decent answer.
Hopefully you read this before Massdrop's current stock runs out.
And I just want to point out I'm no professional reviewer, I'm giving my experience so far with the THX 789.
And of course sound is subjective and YMMV.
And forgive my poor Audiophile jargon.

Headphones I used for comparison: LCD-3, ZMF Auteur, Focal Elex, HD 6XX.
DAC: Denafrips Ares

OK I would say the THX 789 is cleaner sounding which is saying something since I the X7S is pretty clean sounding already. The X7S is slightly warmer sounding but not as spacious and more congested.
Also the X7S is more boomy in the bass and not as clear in the treble while the THX 789 is more precise and reference sounding. It's great for anyone looking for a more transparent neutral amp.
The THX considerably more powerful and brings out more impact and dynamics in harder to drive headphones. Also the sound differences are more noticeable with less sensitive headphones like the HD6XX and Auteur than the Focals where I guess the THX 789's superior power shines.
I generally prefer the more natural tone of class A amps but I can appreciate the technical superiority of the THX 789. Some people are calling it Endgame, I wouldn't go that far but i would say it a great neatral amp for its price range and maybe higher but definitely not my personal Endgame.

I hope this helps.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top