[SilverEars]

So, recently I got to try out a very expensive tube amp. I was so disappointed.

I tried the HD6XX with it, and was disappointed, but it was an awakening (learned something at least). I realized tubes creates a weird treble sound I would discribe as not properly resolved or controlled, but like a sparkler, unruly (not to such extremes of course, just an analogy). I assume it's from the distortion of the tubes. I have heard the Focal Elegia, and it has similar nature due to probably closed back resonance (which distortion I think).

What else I didn't like was what it did to the bass, it made it sound wooley, and less impact than my favorite solid-state amp. It sounded dull and life-less. Tubes are not my thing, especially with HD6XX. So, I wonder how much worse Bottle Head crack would sound as this was transformer coupled tube amp?

You know what else? The Got damn noise floor the tubes raises!

My solid-state damps the HD6XX, and I find it improves it in comparison to tubes.

Can we say HD6XX scales with different amping? I dunno, I didn't like it with tubes. Also, I will point out that HD800(S) still sounded edgy and piercing. Gawd, I hate that headphone.

 

[WilliamLeonhart]

So, recently I got to try out a very expensive tube amp. I was so disappointed.

I tried the HD6XX with it, and was disappointed, but it was an awakening (learned something at least). I realized tubes creates a weird treble sound I would discribe as not properly resolved or controlled, but like a sparkler, unruly (not to such extremes of course, just an analogy). I assume it's from the distortion of the tubes. I have heard the Focal Elegia, and it has similar nature due to probably closed back resonance (which distortion I think).

What else I didn't like was what it did to the bass, it made it sound wooley, and less impact than my favorite solid-state amp. It sounded dull and life-less. Tubes are not my thing, especially with HD6XX. So, I wonder how much worse Bottle Head crack would sound as this was transformer coupled tube amp?

You know what else? The Got damn noise floor the tubes raises!

My solid-state damps the HD6XX, and I find it improves it in comparison to tubes.

Can we say HD6XX scales with different amping? I dunno, I didn't like it with tubes. Also, I will point out that HD800(S) still sounded edgy and piercing. Gawd, I hate that headphone.

The experience you describe is nothing like the one I've had with my tube amps. Actually, I think it's hard to have tube amps generalized, because it defeats the whole purpose of tube rolling. Different manufacturers obviously have different skills, and I think they also aim for different sound sigs.

As for the Bottlehead, most one I've tried sounded fairly neutral with a bit of tubey coating over the sound. The same goes for my Little Dot I+ with JAN 5654W, though it's actually a solid state amp with tube buffer.

The HD6xx does scale with amping, but I think $300 amps like Burson Fun or any Lehmann clone already give you as much good as you can get from the HD6 line. And for the HD800, yeah I hate it when it sounds edgy and piercing too. But when it is NOT, it doesn't feel like the same set of cans.

 

[SilverEars]

The experience you describe is nothing like the one I've had with my tube amps. Actually, I think it's hard to have tube amps generalized, because it defeats the whole purpose of tube rolling. Different manufacturers obviously have different skills, and I think they also aim for different sound sigs.

As for the Bottlehead, most one I've tried sounded fairly neutral with a bit of tubey coating over the sound. The same goes for my Little Dot I+ with JAN 5654W, though it's actually a solid state amp with tube buffer.

The HD6xx does scale with amping, but I think $300 amps like Burson Fun or any Lehmann clone already give you as much good as you can get from the HD6 line. And for the HD800, yeah I hate it when it sounds edgy and piercing too. But when it is NOT, it doesn't feel like the same set of cans.

So far, mid range to more expensive tube amps have the treble characteristics I describe (of the different ones I've tried), and this tube amp was an high-end one. Calling it scaling in certain circumstances is just some sound changes (maybe tubes or whatever..). My understanding of scaling is different, and it's not just some difference in sound with tubes.

 

[kman1211]

So far, mid range to more expensive tube amps have the treble characteristics I describe (of the different ones I've tried), and this tube amp was an high-end one. Calling it scaling in certain circumstances is just some sound changes (maybe tubes or whatever..). My understanding of scaling is different, and it's not just some difference in sound with tubes.

What amp was this? Many tube amps and tubes do have some sort of coloration going on, I've come across many that have some treble funkiness going on, some don't, but more do than not. In regards to tube rolling and scaling, some tubes are simply better than others, so it can improve the amps fidelity to a degree. I honestly never found the HD 650 to scale as much as it's reputation claims. I think some do confuse system synergy with scaling, they are different imho.

 

[SilverEars]

What amp was this? Many tube amps and tubes do have some sort of coloration going on, I've come across many that have some treble funkiness going on, some don't, but more do than not. In regards to tube rolling and scaling, some tubes are simply better than others, so it can improve the amps fidelity to a degree. I honestly never found the HD 650 to scale as much as it's reputation claims. I think some do confuse system synergy with scaling, they are different imho.

Woo WA-5

 

[kman1211]

Woo WA-5

Wonder what tubes it was using and DAC/source it was connected to. I haven't heard the HD 650 on that amp, so no idea what I would think of it. I do know I thought the HD 650 sounded great on the Eddie Current Balancing Act when I heard that combo a few years back, but not sure if I'll feel the same now or not.

 

[DavidA]

So, recently I got to try out a very expensive tube amp. I was so disappointed.

I tried the HD6XX with it, and was disappointed, but it was an awakening (learned something at least). I realized tubes creates a weird treble sound I would discribe as not properly resolved or controlled, but like a sparkler, unruly (not to such extremes of course, just an analogy). I assume it's from the distortion of the tubes. I have heard the Focal Elegia, and it has similar nature due to probably closed back resonance (which distortion I think).

What else I didn't like was what it did to the bass, it made it sound wooley, and less impact than my favorite solid-state amp. It sounded dull and life-less. Tubes are not my thing, especially with HD6XX. So, I wonder how much worse Bottle Head crack would sound as this was transformer coupled tube amp?

You know what else? The Got damn noise floor the tubes raises!

My solid-state damps the HD6XX, and I find it improves it in comparison to tubes.

Can we say HD6XX scales with different amping? I dunno, I didn't like it with tubes. Also, I will point out that HD800(S) still sounded edgy and piercing. Gawd, I hate that headphone.

I'm with @WilliamLeonhart on tube amps, if it weren't for tube amps I'd probably sell off my HD800 and HD650/HD6XX. Tubes do make a difference and from memory most Woo amps with stock tubes are quite warm, overly warm in some instances like you describe. I've never heard the WA5 but have heard the headphone only amp version WA5-LE a few years back and it was like you describe, way too warm in the bass with treble rolled off with stock tubes. I was lucky enough that my friend who owned the WA5-LE had alternative tubes and boy did it really change the sound, bass was detailed and controlled, highs clean, smooth and extended with the HD800, HD800S and a few other headphones that I tried. Unfortunately 300B tubes + driver tubes and rectifier tubes are quite pricy and the alternative set of tubes that my friend had was about $900 IIRC, granted these were some of the better 6SN7 drivers and 300B power tubes available. Other tube amps that I got to compare at the time were a Liquid Glass, EC Balancing Act, WA22, WA3 and Red Wine Isabellina HPA along with some SS amps like Liquid Gold, MHA-100, DarkStar and Master 11 (old 1704 chip version), at this level its just a matter of ones personal preference and its still a matter of a headphone pairing well with a amp that makes the pairing work.

With that said if you like the SS pairings then I'd consider you lucky with a whole lot of extra $$$$ to spend elsewhere.

 

[elira]

Woo amps tend to be bright. But it also depends what tubes you choose. I don't think it's fair to judge all tube amps based on just one example.

 

[Luigi Milazzo]

It does. They’re also worth it because they’re so inexpensive and they sell PDQ on this site if you don’t like them.

And if you mod it you have almost a 660

 

[WilliamLeonhart]

Woo WA-5

This kinda explains a lot, actually

 

[jotaku]

So I just got a pair of the 58X. They sound really great. I was wondering 2 things.

• Are the drivers as close to the 660s as some people are saying?
• What are some worthwhile mods to try out?

 

[RahulSangal]

[/QUOTE]
58x or he 4xx? which one is beter?

 

[DavidA]

So I just got a pair of the 58X. They sound really great. I was wondering 2 things.

• Are the drivers as close to the 660s as some people are saying?
• What are some worthwhile mods to try out?

It depends on how you perceive the sound of the HD660S and HD58X, to some its fairly close and to others they are quite different and which you prefer is a mater of what you are looking for. To me the HD660S is closer to the HD600 while the HD58X is closer to the HD650. The only thing that the HD660S and HD58X really have in common is that they both sound quite good on almost any gear while the HD600 and HD650/6XX needs a decent amp to get the most out of them.

Another way to put it would be if you like a more neutral sound signature then get the HD660S if you and a fun easy to listen to sound then get the HD58X, if you like a little bass then HD58X, smooth highs with better mids get the HD660S.

@RahulSangal, the choice between HD58X or HE4XX would be based on what you prefer. While I haven't heard the HE4XX yet I do have a HE400i, HE400 and HE560 and have heard HEX, HEX-v2, HE1K,, HE6 and HE500 and I think it would depend on the genre of music that I was listening to it would make me reach for HD58X or HE400i.

 

[Qualcheduno]

@DavidA can you please tell me how the HE-400 sounds compared to the 58X? Because I've been eyeing a used HE-400 for a while, but I don't want to downgrade from the 58x.

 

[DavidA]

@DavidA can you please tell me how the HE-400 sounds compared to the 58X? Because I've been eyeing a used HE-400 for a while, but I don't want to downgrade from the 58x.

These two headphones sound really different but keep in mind that my HE400 is modded quite a bit when you read this.
If you like bass that hits hard, is full and very dynamic then the HE400 is one of the better headphone around but keep in mind that the mids are a little too recessed unless you do a few mods to the grill side which for me was placing a hard rubber pad (2" square) in the middle of the grill that I made for them. My pair also has sorbothane in the cups and I'm using Focus pads with attenuation rings and have changed over the pad mounting rings of the cups to the newer metal ones which have a notch to keep Focus/Focus-A pads from rotating. The highs of the HE400 are more extended than the HD58X by a bit but this also means that it can be sibilant for some. I keep both since they are so different sounding that they make good/great contrasting presentations of any track.

Here a picture of my HE400 along side my HD58X:


One other thing, HE400 is a bit harder to drive since its not as efficient as the HD58X.