Attaching pic for spl measurement of the drivers. The max seems to be 73. Lowest around 60. The fiio volume is set at 65. I'm convinced of my theory so far.
I don't want to be the annoying measurment police, not to diss what you are doing. Just want to provide my input, You guys cannot really measure dB SPLs without a measurment head. Or at least a very rigorous method. You are measuring DB SPL at which distance of the driver, exactly? What is the spec advertised by Focal. dB SPL at the eardrum membrane when Headphone sealed around one's ear? Totally different than the measurment made by the mic of a cellphone at an approximate distance on a headphone just sitting there. Again, apologies if I sound critical of the method.
Peace.
I don't want to be the annoying measurment police, not to diss what you are doing. Just want to provide my input, You guys cannot really measure dB SPLs without a measurment head. Or at least a very rigorous method. You are measuring DB SPL at which distance of the driver, exactly What is the spec advertised by Focal. dB SPL at the eardrum membrane when Headphone sealed around one's ear? Totally different than the measurment made by the mic of a cellphone at an approximate distance on a headphone just sitting there. Again, apologies if I sound critical of the method.
Peace.
If I was to take a square piece of wood, bore a hole wide enough to insert a umik-1, and lock it all in place, then place the ear cup flush against the wood with the mic aimed the center of the driver and measure several headphones, would that be rigorous enough?
As this is mere curiosity, I’m not inclined to sweat the small details as long as I can get a pretty good relative approximation.
If I was to take a square piece of wood, bore a hole wide enough to insert a umik-1, and lock it all in place, then place the ear cup flush against the wood with the mic aimed the center of the driver and measure several headphones, would that be rigorous enough?
As this is mere curiosity, I’m not inclined to sweat the small details as long as I can get a pretty good relative approximation.
Hi Jearly, it may or not be a good approximation, as long as we know what we are trying to approximate. I think the problem here is that, from what I understand, and hey I could be wrong, that somewhere a Focal representative have been reporting that the mechanical limit of their drivers could be reached at SPL greater than 90 dBs. That in itself is not rigorous (I'd happy to stand corrected and not rigorous don't mean false, I don't disagree with this statement). I believe that from the Focal side, this is marketing language. A way to say: -"If you are pushing the headphone past the mechanical limit, you are probably listeniing too loud." That's not how they measure the limit of their drivers. In house they measure a voltage rms level at which the mechanical limit is reached, with a known content in the sub Bass frequencies, with either a series of tones or pink noise. The exact method I don't know, but it's not a SPL level from a random song. In any case, just for basics, a SPL level on it's own don't mean anything for evaluating a speaker, it at the very least neat to have a distance and is useful to spec what a speaker can push, You see a spec can be: -Max SPL level at 1 meter that's at least something you can compare, it's also used mainly for sensitivity. I'm just gonna assume that for headphone, the SPL values are inside the ear canal. I don't do headphone measurment, no expert here. So to your question, after this rant, my answer is I don't know if it's a good approximation, it could at least be good if many of you do the same, but I don't recommend pushing your headphone purposely to its max excursion. You CAN damage them. Again, I never run into this, maybe I don't listen loud enough, but you paid good money for this, If you keep hearing that clipping, I personally would want to be refunded or at least have my headphone tested BY FOCAL to see if it's up to specs.
I don't want to be the annoying measurment police, not to diss what you are doing. Just want to provide my input, You guys cannot really measure dB SPLs without a measurment head. Or at least a very rigorous method. You are measuring DB SPL at which distance of the driver, exactly? What is the spec advertised by Focal. dB SPL at the eardrum membrane when Headphone sealed around one's ear? Totally different than the measurment made by the mic of a cellphone at an approximate distance on a headphone just sitting there. Again, apologies if I sound critical of the method.
Peace.
Three reasons led me to believe this is reasonably accurate.
1. To my knowledge, the volume in fiio is actually mapped to db scale. The volume was set at 65 low gain and the measurement of the app ranges from 60 to 72 with an average at 66. Considering the lows and highs of that song, this does seem pretty accurate.
2. I did borrow a cheapo db spl meter from a friend and checked the measurement with the head inserted in between the can and my ears. But that one is a simple digital reader.
3. I used Sound Analyzer App and my phone's mic as it had the option for statistics. The phone mic was wedged in the cup, not exactly touching the driver but a little above it. The measurement was pretty accurate to the ones I saw from the cheapo meter.
If your concern is that this might not be lab perfect, then yes. It cannot be. But if the concern is whether it is reasonably accurate, then I believe it is. There could be a couple of db variations if measured with proper equipment but I don't think there's going to be a huge variation. I'm not sure what method others are using, but when it comes to my drivers, I can hear the clicking sounds as low as volume level 50 in fiio for some songs. I believe it was one of these two songs.
To my knowledge, the volume in fiio is actually mapped to db scale. The volume was set at 65 low gain and the measurement of the app ranges from 60 to 72 with an average at 66. Considering the lows and highs of that song, this does seem pretty accurate.
Sorry ramkvp, but this is absolutely not possible. FIIO's volume cannot be mapped to dB SPL for the simple reason that FIIO cannot possibly know what is plugged into it. They are mapped to dBs, but not dBs as measured by a SPL meter. try it yourself keep the volume at a fixed level and try different headphones. The level you are actually listening will vary greatly. The SPL is linked to headphone sensitivity and those are all over the map. For the same level on your FIIOs some headphones will be crazy loud and other barely audible. SPL levels are nothing else than that.
Sorry ramkvp, but this is absolutely not possible. FIIO's volume cannot be mapped to dB SPL for the simple reason that FIIO cannot possibly know what is plugged into it. They are mapped to dBs, but not dBs as measured by a SPL meter. try it yourself keep the volume at a fixed level and try different headphones. The level you are actually listening will vary greatly. The SPL is linked to headphone sensitivity and those are all over the map. For the same level on your FIIOs some headphones will be crazy loud and other barely audible. SPL levels are nothing else than that.
That makes sense. In that case, we only have the other two to rely on. If you have the proper equipment, can you try using both the app and the equipment to see what the variation is? I understand this might vary by the mic quality, but I can't think of other ways right now. I used a galaxy s8 for that app if that helps.
I agree with @Pierre111 that lab accuracy may be important for specs and for the sake of proper characterization of an issue. Nonetheless, there are few things we're missing:
1) we should be talking about amp pairings, impressions, etc about te Elex. The fact we're taking about this shows there's a problem that deserves investigation.
2) @ramkvp is right that we don't need lab grade accuracy on this. It's likely that the way people are measuring their Elex is good enough. I say this because if there are significant differences (beyond the variabilities allowed by measurement instruments) in the clipping levels, it does show that we have an QC issue and not a design choice as Focal has stated.
Massdrop contacted me to check if I would like a refund or a replacement. I've chosen a replacement. I will update here how it compares to the current headphone as soon as I receive it. Thanks to everyone for keeping the discussion going.
Massdrop contacted me to check if I would like a refund or a replacement. I've chosen a replacement. I will update here how it compares to the current headphone as soon as I receive it. Thanks to everyone for keeping the discussion going.
Massdrop contacted me to check if I would like a refund or a replacement. I've chosen a replacement. I will update here how it compares to the current headphone as soon as I receive it. Thanks to everyone for keeping the discussion going.
Will do. Obviously, there is some QC issue going on. Or at least, I feel like that's the case. It seems like majority of people lucked out or just didn't find this issue yet. If you're planning to get one, check if someone can test them before you get them. I wouldn't want to import them only to find out it has these clipping issue.
Anybody measure distortions? It should show up in the distortion response. Like, distortion across the spectrum at 90 dB, etc.. If the headphone clips at some part of the spectrum at a loudness level, you will see it as distortion.
I'd like to see the measurements from different parties(other than Mass-drop provided ones) of the actual headphones they've shipped out to people. I want to see measurements from an entity not tied to the the business.
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