[jsmiller58]

Saw the reply there. I don't hold massdrop responsible at all. This is all focal. There is some definite qc issue and their reply does not sit well with me. This will be the last focal purchase from me. I would have lived with clipping at >90 db. I'm not going to listen at that level anyway. But this is not acceptable. I still like this headphone enough to give it a chance but that would be it.

Absolutely. I can afford to buy nice headphones, and I am more than looking forward to my next pair (despite having gotten three new ones in the last 2 weeks - Elex, Aeon Flow Closed, and E-mu Teak). But, despite the fact that I have not found this problem with my Elex, until Focal acknowledges the problem, identifies the root cause, and addresses the problem, no way do I buy another Focal.

Focal ought to do the right thing - recall this batch, put the next drops on hold, and only resume shipping (including replacing the recalled headphones) when the problem is found and fixed, whatever it is. That is what a responsible company that cares about its brand image would do. Yes, Focal, that was $1M worth of consulting advice, for free.

 

[ramkvp]

Saw the reply there. I don't hold massdrop responsible at all. This is all focal. There is some definite qc issue and their reply does not sit well with me. This will be the last focal purchase from me. I would have lived with clipping at >90 db. I'm not going to listen at that level anyway. But this is not acceptable. I still like this headphone enough to give it a chance but that would be it.

Absolutely. I can afford to buy nice headphones, and I am more than looking forward to my next pair (despite having gotten three new ones in the last 2 weeks - Elex, Aeon Flow Closed, and E-mu Teak). But, despite the fact that I have not found this problem with my Elex, until Focal acknowledges the problem, identifies the root cause, and addresses the problem, no way do I buy another Focal.

Focal ought to do the right thing - recall this batch, put the next drops on hold, and only resume shipping (including replacing the recalled headphones) when the problem is found and fixed, whatever it is. That is what a responsible company that cares about its brand image would do. Yes, Focal, that was $1M worth of consulting advice, for free.

As much as I would like that to happen, their initial response is not giving me much confidence. If it's not for massdrop, this would have been a direct return. And the sad thing is, I do like it on tracks this issue is not present. I can see why everyone likes them but brandnames are made and broken on their level of professionalism and their willingness to please the customer. I was advised against hifiman by a few people because of their qc issues. However good they sound, if longevity is an issue, you have limited your own success. Focal might have a problem in their hands here. It's up to them to decide how to respond.

 

[Raphael DeLaGhetto]

Absolutely. I can afford to buy nice headphones, and I am more than looking forward to my next pair (despite having gotten three new ones in the last 2 weeks - Elex, Aeon Flow Closed, and E-mu Teak). But, despite the fact that I have not found this problem with my Elex, until Focal acknowledges the problem, identifies the root cause, and addresses the problem, no way do I buy another Focal.

Focal ought to do the right thing - recall this batch, put the next drops on hold, and only resume shipping (including replacing the recalled headphones) when the problem is found and fixed, whatever it is. That is what a responsible company that cares about its brand image would do. Yes, Focal, that was $1M worth of consulting advice, for free.

The problem is as they've stated (they sounded irritated that they even had to repeat it in the reply here) this isn't a "problem." They did this on purpose. I'd buy another pair in a heartbeat if we got a driver revision without that "feature" but I'm willing to bet that hell freezes over before that happens. They're steadfast in their response to this every time. I don't see them budging, or this changing unfortunately.

 

[ramkvp]

The problem is as they've stated (they sounded irritated that they even had to repeat it in the reply here) this isn't a "problem." They did this on purpose. I'd buy another pair in a heartbeat if we got a driver revision without that "feature" but I'm willing to bet that hell freezes over before that happens. They're steadfast in their response to this every time. I don't see them budging, or this changing unfortunately.

That is unfortunate. This might lose them some business.

 

[Anaz]

Saw the reply there. I don't hold massdrop responsible at all. This is all focal. There is some definite qc issue and their reply does not sit well with me. This will be the last focal purchase from me. I would have lived with clipping at >90 db. I'm not going to listen at that level anyway. But this is not acceptable. I still like this headphone enough to give it a chance but that would be it.

Ps: Funny enough, the clipping is worse in Just be good to me by SOS band. It's more like tapping. I'm not sure if it's the driver or I've never heard it before on my previous midfi headphones, but the fact that the tapping is in the right ear where the driver issue is more, I am leaning towards driver issue.

BTW, Just Be Good to Me has a rhythmic click on the right channel that isn't present on the left channel (I confirmed this by listening to the song on Youtube and Apple Music using Sundaras fed by an MCTH and Cascades fed by a Mojo).

 

[Raphael DeLaGhetto]

Also those of you who asked for measurements of the Elear w/ Clear pads v. the Elex here's one:

Source.

"We unfortunately didn’t think to compare them side by side." I wish they had, because a graph isn't going to show reverb presentation or sound stage. But like I said, they do sound similar but they're not identical.

 

[ramkvp]

BTW, Just Be Good to Me has a rhythmic click on the right channel that isn't present on the left channel (I confirmed this by listening to the song on Youtube and Apple Music using Sundaras fed by an MCTH and Cascades fed by a Mojo).

Thank you. Then as of now, fifth of whiskey is the one definite song I can speak for. But like someone said, it's not fun to be looking for this stuff and blaming it on the driver even if it's not the case. When you spend a decent amount of money, you expect to just enjoy the quality of sound. Not be paranoid about the quality.

 

[Anaz]

Thank you. Then as of now, fifth of whiskey is the one definite song I can speak for. But like someone said, it's not fun to be looking for this stuff and blaming it on the driver even if it's not the case. When you spend a decent amount of money, you expect to just enjoy the quality of sound. Not be paranoid about the quality.

Yeah, that song has a deep hypnotic bass with no issues on my headphones.
...My Elex has shipped and is arriving next week

 

[ramkvp]

Yeah, that song has a deep hypnotic bass with no issues on my headphones.
...My Elex has shipped and is arriving next week

Good luck. Hopefully, you don't experience the same issue.

 

[SamusAran]

I'm going to try why so serious track mentioned here and see how it fares. If it exhibits the same issue, it's getting replaced until I get a proper pair.

I'm getting my pair next Friday. I'm new to hi-fi audio so I don't really know what "clipping" sounds like. Can someone describe what it sounds like at a specific point in a track? For example what am I listening for on "why so serious" and when?

It sounds like listeners with far more experience than me are saying some pairs clip and others don't. With my en route pair, they could very well clip and I'm not sure I would even know it. I've searched the topic but can't find anything solid or any audio file examples. A brief explanation of this issue and how to identify it would be very appreciated by this newbie. Thanks!

 

[Dominate]

If you want to hear the effect, 'why so serious' is a good track to try because between 3:26~4:00 it's mostly sub-bass. More of a rumble than loudness, so won't blow your ears out as you increase the volume. More pops and crackles than a cereal. Other headphones I've tested on the same setup/track don't have this. iPhone at max volume won't clip it either.

This is obviously just to pronounce the effect, if i set my volume at what i would consider 'loud' and prob max vol of what i would listen to, it's just below that pop threshold, so i could possibly tolerate it. Others are saying it occurs at a more listening level.

Tolerating is one thing, but like others have also said, it makes it hard to enjoy the music fully as you are paranoid about the popping. Also Focal have still not answered whether this mechanical clipping shortens the life span of the driver either.

 

[silverbox]

No issues on my pair with heavy sub bass. Serial number is low 300s

 

[gLer]

Also those of you who asked for measurements of the Elear w/ Clear pads v. the Elex here's one:

Source.

"We unfortunately didn’t think to compare them side by side." I wish they had, because a graph isn't going to show reverb presentation or sound stage. But like I said, they do sound similar but they're not identical.

So the Elear with Elex pads is an Elex, and vice versa? Good to know I can "upgrade" my Elear to an Elex with a pad swap and save myself having to buy two headphones. I wonder if my Elear will suddenly start clipping with Elex pads

 

[gLer]

If you want to hear the effect, 'why so serious' is a good track to try because between 3:26~4:00 it's mostly sub-bass. More of a rumble than loudness, so won't blow your ears out as you increase the volume. More pops and crackles than a cereal. Other headphones I've tested on the same setup/track don't have this. iPhone at max volume won't clip it either.

This is obviously just to pronounce the effect, if i set my volume at what i would consider 'loud' and prob max vol of what i would listen to, it's just below that pop threshold, so i could possibly tolerate it. Others are saying it occurs at a more listening level.

Tolerating is one thing, but like others have also said, it makes it hard to enjoy the music fully as you are paranoid about the popping. Also Focal have still not answered whether this mechanical clipping shortens the life span of the driver either.

Right so I just tested my Elear with this song and compared it to 4 other headphones I currently have with me: HD800S, K7XX, Atticus and LCD-3.

There is indeed something going on design-wise when it comes to sub bass handling by there Elear (and therefore Elex) drivers. When the sub hits at around 3:26, at normal to loud volume, I'm not hearing anything but smooth sub on the Elear. However turn it up a few notches and I start hearing faint pops and a crackle or two. I then tried the same thing with the other headphones. Each handled it slightly different ly in terms of the "smoothness" of the sub bass, with the Atticus/LCD-3 being by far the best, followed by the HD800 and K7XX, but not one "clipped" or crackled or popped, even when the volume dial was way past the 12PM mark which, if the rest of the song were to come on at that point, would render me deaf.

So yes, the Elear, in this case, is designed to audibly let you know when it's clipping in the sub bass region, but consider this: The Elear is easily the most sensitive of my headphones. It's also the most dynamic. At 9 o'clock and high gain on my R2R-11 this song is just about as loud as I'd care to listen to it. All the others have to be turned up past 10 for the same level. The "clipping" on the Elear starts around 10.30, which would be about 11.30/12 on the other headphones, and again, painful volume. So practically speaking, I should never hit the clipping point, especially since most songs don't make such prodigious use of sub bass. Also, FWIW, the Elear renders this track better than any of my other headphones, matched only by the LCD-3, which costs twice as much.

I've also had a listen to the "Whiskey" track (not my cup of tea, excuse the pun), but the "clipping" starts at volumes well beyond those I'd care to listen to this song at, and at the same levels, even though headphones like the HD800S don't clip, they're so sibilant I'd rather have the clipping.

Now, I know all of the above was done on an Elear and not an Elex. Whether or not the design tolerances are different for the Elex than the Elear, I'm not sure. You'd have to ask Focal. Which is why it would be interesting to put Elex pads on an Elear and see if it clips more easily, possibly because you're turning it up louder than you would the more dynamic and punchy Elear to get the same effect.

 

[ramkvp]

Right so I just tested my Elear with this song and compared it to 4 other headphones I currently have with me: HD800S, K7XX, Atticus and LCD-3.

There is indeed something going on design-wise when it comes to sub bass handling by there Elear (and therefore Elex) drivers. When the sub hits at around 3:26, at normal to loud volume, I'm not hearing anything but smooth sub on the Elear. However turn it up a few notches and I start hearing faint pops and a crackle or two. I then tried the same thing with the other headphones. Each handled it slightly different ly in terms of the "smoothness" of the sub bass, with the Atticus/LCD-3 being by far the best, followed by the HD800 and K7XX, but not one "clipped" or crackled or popped, even when the volume dial was way past the 12PM mark which, if the rest of the song were to come on at that point, would render me deaf.

So yes, the Elear, in this case, is designed to audibly let you know when it's clipping in the sub bass region, but consider this: The Elear is easily the most sensitive of my headphones. It's also the most dynamic. At 9 o'clock and high gain on my R2R-11 this song is just about as loud as I'd care to listen to it. All the others have to be turned up past 10 for the same level. The "clipping" on the Elear starts around 10.30, which would be about 11.30/12 on the other headphones, and again, painful volume. So practically speaking, I should never hit the clipping point, especially since most songs don't make such prodigious use of sub bass. Also, FWIW, the Elear renders this track better than any of my other headphones, matched only by the LCD-3, which costs twice as much.

I've also had a listen to the "Whiskey" track (not my cup of tea, excuse the pun), but the "clipping" starts at volumes well beyond those I'd care to listen to this song at, and at the same levels, even though headphones like the HD800S don't clip, they're so sibilant I'd rather have the clipping.

Now, I know all of the above was done on an Elear and not an Elex. Whether or not the design tolerances are different for the Elex than the Elear, I'm not sure. You'd have to ask Focal. Which is why it would be interesting to put Elex pads on an Elear and see if it clips more easily, possibly because you're turning it up louder than you would the more dynamic and punchy Elear to get the same effect.

Can you try to find out what db it is in which you hear the distortions? As I've said before, my assumption is that all these drivers have it. But their limits might be different. Mine is sensitive at 60 db. Yours could be more. As already mentioned, I would have been ok with a >90 db defective drive. It's not a fun volume anyway. But, at least to me, the inconsistency of the quality of these drivers and the lackluster response from focal is offputting. I like elex. It's good when it works properly on other tracks but I don't want to settle for a defective piece after spending a decent amount of money and a couple of months wait. I would have recommended this to others wholeheartedly if this issue wasn't there. They are indeed good. But I don't owe focal anything to let this slide. I understand a lot of other people are happy with their piece. But I'm not sure how many of them are even aware of this limitation and what limit their driver hits this at.