[africanus]

When people were concerned about quality issues with Audeze, they responded by increasing the warranty to 3 years. In addition the warranty is transferable, and the warranty period restarts after any repair.

I wouldn't buy another pair of Focals, given their price and bare minimum warranty.

As far as I know, in the EU the minimum legal warranty period is two years. And that is manufacturer’s warranty. So if your retailer refuses to replace or repair your product, the manufacturer is obliged to honour the warranty, at least if they are incorporated in the EU, and Focal is. And, additionally, EU norms rule out the discharge of responsibilities due the product being purchased in a different market. Then, if the Elex is branded Focal, and it is, no matter where you buy it, Focal France must guarantee it for two years within the EU. You may be forced to pay for shipping expenses, though. Of course, if you send your product back for repair, the warranty period resets.

I am not a lawyer, so I could be wrong, or more elaborate legal tricks apply.

That said, I had the opportunity to buy a pair of Elear and fell in love with their sound. So, I joined the Elex drop and had a forwarder to reship them to the EU. Obviosly, I hope not to experience any problem with my unit.

 

[SilverEars]

As far as I know, in the EU the minimum legal warranty period is two years. And that is manufacturer’s warranty. So if your retailer refuses to replace or repair your product, the manufacturer is obliged to honour the warranty, at least if they are incorporated in the EU, and Focal is. And, additionally, EU norms rule out the discharge of responsibilities due the product being purchased in a different market. Then, if the Elex is branded Focal, and it is, no matter where you buy it, Focal France must guarantee it for two years within the EU. You may be forced to pay for shipping expenses, though. Of course, if you send your product back for repair, the warranty period resets.

I am not a lawyer, so I could be wrong, or more elaborate legal tricks apply.

That said, I had the opportunity to buy a pair of Elear and fell in love with their sound. So, I joined the Elex drop and had a forwarder to reship them to the EU. Obviosly, I hope not to experience any problem with my unit.

But, what about being transferable? How does that work with Massdrop as the distributer?

 

[africanus]

But, what about being transferable? How does that work with Massdrop as the distributer?

To the best of my knowledge: Regarding to Elex: Massdrop is an authorised retailer of a product called Massdrop FOCAL Elex, branded as FOCAL, tuned as some guidelines given by Massdrop, and distributed in some (exclusive, sole) markets as per agreement with Focal. So, Massdrop will not service Elex outside the authorised markets in which they allowed to sell the product. So if your Elex is defective, you can choose:

A. Return the product to Massdrop for repair or replacement from an address located in one of those authorised markets. Then, local laws regarding consumers’ products warranty apply (for example, shipping expenses)
B. If you are in the EU, you can send them back to your closest Focal headquarters for repair or replacement. As stated before, the EU does not recognise “personal, non-transferable” warranties, since that would break the principle of market unity. The warranty is on the product, not the owner. Of course, Focal could opt to dismiss your warranty claim. But they should prove there has been some kind of misuse.

I am not sure if I am being helpful

 

[SamusAran]

I got my Elex today and paired it with a CTH. It's my first dip into higher-end audio. I've read a lot about the clipping issue, and so Why So Serious was one of the first tracks I listened to. I didn't even know what to listen for but there it was at about 3:30 like crackles from a fire. Volume and how to measure it accurately has been frequently discussed (which I'm not qualified to get into), but for reference, I can't listen to QC35's at more than 85% volume, streaming Spotify on an iPhone 6s through Bluetooth before it becomes uncomfortable. The clipping on the Elex occurred well below that volume. I don't listen to a lot of tracks with sub-bass, but considering the price, I don't want to keep them if they are indeed defective.

For those of you who have reported no clipping at bearable volume levels who may also own a pair of QC35's, should I be able to hear clipping on an Elex below what would be roughly 85% from an iPhone 6s, and is my Elex defective, or am I listening to my headphones at excessive volumes?

I do really like everything else about the Elex so I'd prefer a replacement rather than a return. I'm in the US so not too worried about logistics. I appreciate any advice, thanks!

 

[alvarg]

Depends how loud you are listening, do you listen at volumes louder than an average conversation, do you listen at a volume where you can feel the bass through your head. Also where did you listen to this why so serious track, because youtube isn't exactly known for great audio quality. I just listened to it and honestly that is the weirdest bass, I've never heard bass like that in any song i listen to so i doubt you'd experience the issue in regular music (especially not the music i listen to). but i mean if its crackling and clipping and its too quiet for you and you aren't happy I'd return them or replace them.

but honestly i feel with higher quality audio ironically there are more trade offs, take the -Sonoma Model One Electrostatic on inner fidelity he said sounds great but has terrible bass distortion at high volumes and recommends listening to them below 85db.
If i tried to play a song on my speakers (which are good) that have a bass roll off around 50hz and put it at high volumes, that amount of bass would cause them to distort pretty noticeably, but am i going to send my speakers back no i don't expect anything other than a sub-woofer to handle that much low bass. so for focal to produce a headphone that is capable of reaching down to 5hz if i get my pair and it clips at levels below what i want to listen at I'd just put a low shelf filter on at 30hz.


just played why so serious on my speakers (5'25 inch), volume meter had the song peaking at 80db before the 3:30 mark, then it went pretty quiet during the bass part so i increased the volume till it distorted and honestly it distorted very quickly, it wasn't even loud before it started hitting xmax so again would need a sub to take the low frequencies it was to much for a 5'25 inch speakers i doubt a 40mm headphone driver could do it better.

 

[gLer]

Depends how loud you are listening, do you listen at volumes louder than an average conversation, do you listen at a volume where you can feel the bass through your head. Also where did you listen to this why so serious track, because youtube isn't exactly known for great audio quality. I just listened to it and honestly that is the weirdest bass, I've never heard bass like that in any song i listen to so i doubt you'd experience the issue in regular music (especially not the music i listen to). but i mean if its crackling and clipping and its too quiet for you and you aren't happy I'd return them or replace them.

but honestly i feel with higher quality audio ironically there are more trade offs, take the -Sonoma Model One Electrostatic on inner fidelity he said sounds great but has terrible bass distortion at high volumes and recommends listening to them below 85db.
If i tried to play a song on my speakers (which are good) that have a bass roll off around 50hz and put it at high volumes, that amount of bass would cause them to distort pretty noticeably, but am i going to send my speakers back no i don't expect anything other than a sub-woofer to handle that much low bass. so for focal to produce a headphone that is capable of reaching down to 5hz if i get my pair and it clips at levels below what i want to listen at I'd just put a low shelf filter on at 30hz.


just played why so serious on my speakers (5'25 inch), volume meter had the song peaking at 80db before the 3:30 mark, then it went pretty quiet during the bass part so i increased the volume till it distorted and honestly it distorted very quickly, it wasn't even loud before it started hitting xmax so again would need a sub to take the low frequencies it was to much for a 5'25 inch speakers i doubt a 40mm headphone driver could do it better.

+1 and very good advice. The song choices used to demo driver excursion on the Elex (and Elear) represent extreme sub bass that would make excellent speakers ‘distort’ in the same way.

You’re unlikely to encounter this type of bass in most music, and I still believe if you’re hitting the excursion point you’re listening too loud. Of course it’s fun to listen LOUD, and my other headphones (LCD-3 and Atticus) will gladly let me go deaf before pointing out I’m damaging my hearing.

When my Elear starts to ‘pop’ I get a guilty smile knowing I’ve been listening too loud, even though sometimes it’s just fun to listen that loud, especially with the Elear and it’s zero sibilance.

Fortunately most of the music I listen to - from classic rock to indie to acoustic - goes easy on the sub bass, and the Elear still kicks the c*** out of any open dynamic (or planar for that matter) in the bass ‘kick’ department.

 

[NorCal]

Received my Elex yesterday. Out of the box, sounding great. Only spent a few minutes with them, and played just a few tracks, but my initial impression is they are more revealing than my HD-650s. However, on some tracks that had intentional distortion/fuzzy stuff, perhaps the 650s are a better choice.

The Elex shined on tracks like Fleetwood Mac's - Landslide, revealing things that I will probably now notice with the HD-650s .
I tried some of the "clipping" inducing tracks mentioned in this thread, but heard none. I did crank the volume a bit ... off ear, and didn't hear any "clipping", or "farts" as some heard, so initially I'm happy with my purchase. I will say, (also as an initial impression), the Massdrop HD6xxx is probably the better deal, at less than 1/3 the price. [Assuming they sound as good as the HD-650, as has been reported]. Guess it depends on your budget ... but I could live happily with the HD-650s.

However, I'm loving the Elex ... tracks such as Sharon den Adel's "Crash and Burn", ELO's "Mr. Blue Sky", London Grammar's "Truth is a Beautiful Thing", and Brandi Carlile's "The Joke", all sound quite amazing! For me I'll be happy keeping both.

Pretty comfy too.

Yes, they're keepers.

 

[SilverEars]

Received my Elex yesterday. Out of the box, sounding great. Only spent a few minutes with them, and played just a few tracks, but my initial impression is they are more revealing than my HD-650s. However, on some tracks that had intentional distortion/fuzzy stuff, perhaps the 650s are a better choice.

The Elex shined on tracks like Fleetwood Mac's - Landslide, revealing things that I will probably now notice with the HD-650s .
I tried some of the "clipping" inducing tracks mentioned in this thread, but heard none. I did crank the volume a bit ... off ear, and didn't hear any "clipping", or "farts" as some heard, so initially I'm happy with my purchase. I will say, (also as an initial impression), the Massdrop HD6xxx is probably the better deal, at less than 1/3 the price. [Assuming they sound as good as the HD-650, as has been reported]. Guess it depends on your budget ... but I could live happily with the HD-650s.

However, I'm loving the Elex ... tracks such as Sharon den Adel's "Crash and Burn", ELO's "Mr. Blue Sky", London Grammar's "Truth is a Beautiful Thing", and Brandi Carlile's "The Joke", all sound quite amazing! For me I'll be happy keeping both.

Pretty comfy too.

Yes, they're keepers.

You like vocal tracks? You like them with vocals? Was the HD650 your main go to before for these? Which of the HD6-- you prefer the most? Do you hear any brightness? How about vocal sibilance?

How about hard rock, and also hip-hop bass?

 

[NorCal]

You like vocal tracks? You like them with vocals? Was the HD650 your main go to before for these? Which of the HD6-- you prefer the most? Do you hear any brightness? How about vocal sibilance?

How about hard rock, and also hip-hop bass?

Yes, yes, and yes. The HD-650s, (since they are the only ones I've heard). The only thing that might be considered brightness, (so far), is, where I mentioned the "Intentional distortion/fuzzy stuff", and I think for some genres, the HD-650 might be a better match. But that was just my initial impression on one track, and I don't recall what it was. I'll see if I can find it. No Sibliance noticed. Any suggested YouTube tracks for this?

I'll listen to some hard rock, metal, and maybe some Trick Daddy, and update ... maybe later today.

One other thing, I forgot to mention, the Elex sounds good driven by the ~50 ohm output Cambridge DacMagic Plus' amp. I normally use the the Magni 3, (as an amp), but wanted to try the higher impedance amp.

 

[alvarg]

Received my Elex yesterday. Out of the box, sounding great. Only spent a few minutes with them, and played just a few tracks, but my initial impression is they are more revealing than my HD-650s. However, on some tracks that had intentional distortion/fuzzy stuff, perhaps the 650s are a better choice.

The Elex shined on tracks like Fleetwood Mac's - Landslide, revealing things that I will probably now notice with the HD-650s .
I tried some of the "clipping" inducing tracks mentioned in this thread, but heard none. I did crank the volume a bit ... off ear, and didn't hear any "clipping", or "farts" as some heard, so initially I'm happy with my purchase. I will say, (also as an initial impression), the Massdrop HD6xxx is probably the better deal, at less than 1/3 the price. [Assuming they sound as good as the HD-650, as has been reported]. Guess it depends on your budget ... but I could live happily with the HD-650s.

The hd650 is a good headphone at full price so at $200 on massdrop while still made in Ireland and still having 2 year warranty its a killer deal, Even when i get my elex i doubt I'll get rid of my hd650. But I'm not sure what you mean by
intentional distortion/fuzzy stuff though, if you are referring to music that has been poorly recorded then yes a slightly more forgiving/less revealing headphone might be the better choice. I'll also add that with every post that someone is complaining about clipping i see a post saying "I did crank the volume a bit ... off ear, and didn't hear any "clipping", or "farts" as some heard" or if they did they also added they had the volume quite loud.

(I was after a good pair of headphones like i expect the elex to be because i find that the hd650 despite it being great, its not the best at complex layering, it images well but i find that mid-bass instruments and vocals get the foreground while mid-range instruments get pushed back and are hard to pick out in a mix)

So i get the strong impression that out of the people who bought an elex (750 sold) around 2% are stating some issue, so roughly 10-15 people complaining about clipping but then out of them I'd say at least half are either listening to songs with so much bass even the best speakers would clip, or they are listening to volumes well beyond what they should and if anything should thank focal for producing a headphone that gives them an audible notification that they are causing hearing damage.

Also people who are complaining about clipping in songs without a bass boost/ lots of bass and are experiencing this issue at volumes at or below 70 db I completely agree that you should send them back because that is definitely not good enough and you are probably among the few that do have a real fault. do keep in mind though that even at 70db a 40mm driver will struggle to push 30hz or below well.

 

[SilverEars]

Yes, yes, and yes. The HD-650s, (since they are the only ones I've heard). The only thing that might be considered brightness, (so far), is, where I mentioned the "Intentional distortion/fuzzy stuff", and I think for some genres, the HD-650 might be a better match. But that was just my initial impression on one track, and I don't recall what it was. I'll see if I can find it. No Sibliance noticed. Any suggested YouTube tracks for this?

I'll listen to some hard rock, metal, and maybe some Trick Daddy, and update ... maybe later today.

One other thing, I forgot to mention, the Elex sounds good driven by the ~50 ohm output Cambridge DacMagic Plus' amp. I normally use the the Magni 3, (as an amp), but wanted to try the higher impedance amp.

You should compare regular source material(music files or Tidal) to Youtube tracks. I find at least with Tidal sounding more defined. I hear the difference. I can't rely on Youtube tracks to be wholy representitive of the mastering quality. For Tidal or any software player, I set the DAC as the controller for the bit rate like WASAPI.

 

[NorCal]

But I'm not sure what you mean by
intentional distortion/fuzzy stuff though, if you are referring to music that has been poorly recorded then yes a slightly more forgiving/less revealing headphone might be the better choice.

What I meant was on some music, there is an intentional distortion/fuzz, maybe it's ambient, although I don't think I have any recorded in my foobar. Not poorly recorded. I think the Elex isn't the best for that type of music ... at least for my taste. The HD-650 seems to soften the harshness, IMO.

Edit: found the track that I initially preferred with the HD-650, think I still do.

 

[NorCal]

You should compare regular source material(music files or Tidal) to Youtube tracks. I find at least with Tidal sounding more defined. I hear the difference. I can't rely on Youtube tracks to be wholy representitive of the mastering quality. For Tidal or any software player, I set the DAC as the controller for the bit rate like WASAPI.

I have my foobar set to WASAPI, [and sometimes ASIO]. Mostly listen to Redbook ... converted CD to WAV files at 16 bit, because the Sound Science forum convinced me Hi-Rez isn't audible. But in any case, I can't tell the difference between even Redbook and MP3, [or YouTube audio for that matter], so there you go. As for your previous post, here's a hard rock vid, with some bass, that sounds pretty good on both the HD-650, and the Elex.

 

[alvarg]

What I meant was on some music, there is an intentional distortion/fuzz, maybe it's ambient, although I don't think I have any recorded in my foobar. Not poorly recorded. I think the Elex isn't the best for that type of music ... at least for my taste. The HD-650 seems to soften the harshness, IMO.

can you give me an example of a song with intentional distortion/fuzz so i can better understand what your saying, thanks.

 

[NorCal]

can you give me an example of a song with intentional distortion/fuzz so i can better understand what your saying, thanks.

See edited post, a couple of post back ... Once upon a Winter track.