MASS-Kobo Model 465 Is In The House!

[Frankie D]

Would love to hear more of your thoughts on 465 vs AIC since I'm also looking at the AIC currently. I thought I had read somewhere that the AIC emphasized bass more than the 465 but it seems you heard the opposite?

I'm especially interested in your opinions since you're a fellow Bliss owner and we both have that as a reference point.

Sure. The 465 has excellent bass and that is what hit me first and continues now that I have my own. I highly doubt the Riviera is more powerful in this area. I did not have this impression, though I did not have them side by side.

The Bliss annd 465 are close to each other. The 465 is capable of a bit more bass detail and sustain as well as a little fuller mids which shows up in some female voice. The Bliss is amazingly close in quality of sound which now makes me realize why I thought it better than the WA33 at the last show.
I classify both as neutral but on the warm side of neutral.
In all of these comparisons I was using the Susvara.

I did not hear the Tungsten on the 465 or Bliss. I did hear the 2-sided on the Riviera and thought it good, but nowhere near the Sus. I also heard the single sided Tungsten on the CFA-3 and liked that allot ( still not Sus level though ).

A few folks that have heard it liked the Tungsten on the 465 but liked the Riviera better as they felt it was more powerful. We will have to see about this in the future, but that is only one HP.

The Solitaire P is excellent on the 465 and amazingly it is fabulous with the Empyrean. So is the Bliss, but I give the edge to the 465 in my notes.

At the show, the ZMF Atrium Closed was a knockout on the Bliss. I would expect the same on the 465.

As I said, in the near future I hope to directly compare my 465 with a friend’s AIC. Tks.

 

[unfitstew]

465 is also really damn good with HD800s despite not being a tube amp. I was surprised by that.

 

[ewppl]

i just came across this thread and i wish i had noticed it earlier. i own the number #017 and my story with my unit has not been the most fortunate (so far)
bought my unit on january from @MusicTeck and didnt really get to critically hear it for a few months after i got it.

when i started to listen, i did both with my hp’s and iems similar trials @Frankie D did without any signal to see how much noise there is.

to my disappointment, i was hearing a high pitch “beep” noise in mid and high gains especially at higher volumes. situation was worse from 6.35 out as it was audible in all 3 gains even with volume at zero.

so i asked around to other owners to repeat my tests to see if they got similar results. thankfully @Frankie D was kind enough to try these with his then brand new unit and his findings were at a much acceptable level then what i was hearing. another kind friend gave me an idea to record the noise from earcups and send it to MK, and i did that.

Masuda-san has been responsive (to the best he can) and extremely kind in handling this for me. he arranged a dhl pickup from my home. so i prepared the unit for shipping in a double box with tons of bubble wrap inside. (MK asked me not to ship it with the pelican case to save weight and obviously cost.) after a month’s wait my unit was repaired. there were several issues with it and some parts were replaced.

one of the findings as Masuda-san worded it :
“I was able to discover that the TDK Lambda power supply for the control board was oscillating, but only slightly.
I contacted the manufacturer about the problem, but they said they didn't know what to do about it, so I tried a number of things and decided to install a filter on the control power supply line….”

then i got the dhl shipping notice. for the note : the unit was exported from where i am as “return for repair” and resent back to me in the reciprocal way. however, due to being marked as a high value item (and i understand this for the insurance purposes), dhl called me and asked me to manipulate the declared value as i would have to pay duties over the declared value for my personal used amp even if it went for a repair. what a county ! anyways Masuda-san, got me the fake invoice requested by dhl, and my package, after spending a full day, in customs inspection office arrived. even after all this monkey business, i had to pay 193€ as my “duties”. this is daylight robbery but that another subject.

the box was opened and re-taped with customs’ own tape. when i went thru the outer box, took out the inner box which also had the customs tape on it. inside i saw the bubble wraps with a slice on the side made by a cutter to see whats inside. on a close inspection i saw the upper cover of my amp was scratched with cutter strikes on two different points.

so basically the customs police sees the 10k declared value and repair declaration, then cuts this up like they dont have any xrays and strikes once with his cutter, hits the metal but couldnt really tear the many layers of wrapping, strikes again all the way deep again hitting the metal (this time longer), and reseals and sends it back to me literally degrading its value in addition to the last minute invoice manipulation dhl suggested. end of joke part 1…

anyways, now the unit will go back to MK once again for yet another repair. this time mainly to replace the top cover under MK’s insurance as dhl said they would cover it. in the meantime Masuda-san has been really very kind and patient with me and my questions. he has reimbursed me the 193€ that i got mugged. ofc, we decided to make use of the pelican case both realizing that its not meant to be a house decoration.

as for the repair goes, the “beep” noise is now completely eliminated. with very sensitive phones or my insensitive iem i hear something ever so slightly in high gain (no signal). but normally i wouldn't use this setting for neither of them. with higher impedance hp’s, theres no audible noise even in high gain. so, it doesn't go beyond being a psychological nuisance for me but still i wish it didn't exist.

this time however, in mid and high gains (more obvious in high gain) when i start raising the volume from zero, i notice right channel comes alive first while left is quiet until the pot reaches 1/3rd point between first dot (zero) and second dot. idk if this is a channel imbalance of some sort but i asked Masuda-san to take a look into this as well. he still hasn’t responded to this one but i doubt he would not care.

i also don’t really know if the filters applied on the unit to eliminate the oscillation noise affects the sound performance in any way. i asked about this too but still haven't got any clarification. perhaps my questions seem too silly but i wasn’t really born with all this knowhow and i am learning with my own pace.

so this has been my journey with my 465 so far. i have mixed feelings about it. i want to love my unit, and i completely agree with all the above impressions on how it sounds. but, (and it can be a big but from where you look at) it has its imperfections. perhaps, coming from benchmark ahb2 which is one super silent amp, i had too much or wrong expectations given how much these units cost.

it could also be that i’ve been the black sheep in the herd and every other unit out there is just immaculate.

i’ll keep here posted how things will roll out in part 2… meanwhile i’m posting some pictures of the damage from italian customs at venice airport.

 

[Frankie D]

Where did you purchase the unit? Request a new unit from where you purchased it. If you have to wait many months, do it. This sounds like a never ending repair saga that will constantly upset you. As no one else has reported any issues, I really think you need a new one. All my best.

 

[ewppl]

Where did you purchase the unit? Request a new unit from where you purchased it. If you have to wait many months, do it. This sounds like a never ending repair saga that will constantly upset you. As no one else has reported any issues, I really think you need a new one. All my best.

this was initially talked about and i was told by MK that its hard due to difficulty in getting parts.

Andrew however was more positive and said he’d replace it if he had a unit available.

I feel the same way now with all this experience, this unit needs replacing.

MK seems like a one man show and despite his efforts to rectify the issue, he has a tendency to swiftly sweep things under the rug and if it wasnt for my persistence the unit would have been returned to me without repair. At one point he literally told me “cant repair, i cant pinpoint the issue, sorry i’m returning your amp.” this mail arrived at the same time with dhl shipping notification. if i hadnt seen it on time, it would have been departed.

… and some other minor “oversights” have me build my opinion as such.

 

[Frankie D]

this was initially talked about and i was told by MK that its hard due to difficulty in getting parts.

Andrew however was more positive and said he’d replace it if he had a unit available.

I feel the same way now with all this experience, this unit needs replacing.

MK seems like a one man show and despite his efforts to rectify the issue, he has a tendency to swiftly sweep things under the rug and if it wasnt for my persistence the unit would have been returned to me without repair. At one point he literally told me “cant repair, i cant pinpoint the issue, sorry i’m returning your amp.” this mail arrived at the same time with dhl shipping notification. if i hadnt seen it on time, it would have been departed.

… and some other minor “oversights” have me build my opinion as such.

I would contact both Andrew and Masuda San requesting a new unit. Hopefully they can take care of it for you, though it will probably take months as he is so backlogged. Good luck.

 

[innocentblood]

Masuda-san posted on his facebook page that he is planning to raise his prices due to the rising cost of materials and other processing costs. This should happen sometime in August/ September. I am also expecting my unit to be delivered sometime in August.

 

[TheAbyss2022]

I attended Canjam in London this weekend and I had a chance to try this amplifier with my OG Utopia and HEKSE.

It was a truly shocking product and to think I got the sound with only having my phone connected to it is even more of a shock.

I need this amplifier so if I save up £1,200 per month for a year I will have enough in a year to purchase it.

 

[TheHipsterCow]

Masuda-san posted on his facebook page that he is planning to raise his prices due to the rising cost of materials and other processing costs. This should happen sometime in August/ September. I am also expecting my unit to be delivered sometime in August.

When did you order yours? I’m on the precipice of pulling the trigger, especially now that Mimic dropped the price to $15K

 

[Solrq8]

Finally got my MK 465! Only listened to it for around 20-30 minutes but so far it has a nice warmth to its sound. It also seems to have some lushness to the mids but will have to listen more to confirm that. Only really used Tungsten on it so far.
At Canjam NYC I tried many amps with Susvara including AIC-10, 465, Viva 845, and Susvara on 465 was my highlight of the show. 465 gave Sus a nice warmth, plenty of dynamics, and the cleanest I have ever heard it. Can't wait to try Sus on it this weekend at home.

Hi which one of them had the biggest sound stage with the susvara and does it sound as big as hd800s stage? i bought susvara 2 weeks ago and they sound amazing but man i miss the stage of the 800s

 

[unfitstew]

I would consider 465 stage to have more depth than pure width. Though I really like HD800s on 465.

HD800s soundstage is very big and special. I wouldn't say Susvara replicates it on any amp I have tried. Though Susvara is able to get intimate unlike HD800s.

 

[MasonStorm]

I've only listened to it for a couple of hours but the hype is real.

Awesome stuff you have there! Please let us know your impressions of various headphones on the MK465 vs. the Aperio

 

[Frankie D]

As promised.

Comparison of Mass-Kobo 465 vs Riviera AIC10-Bal

The big day finally arrived. Eyal( @goldwerger ) and I have been talking about getting together to compare these two beauties for some time now, and Eyal was kind enough to host the big battle at his place.

We started with Eggplant rolls from the Pelham Pizzeria as it is always best to start these heavyweight battles on a full stomach. By the way, Kate Douglas, who just won the Gold Medal in the 200M Breaststroke, is from Pelham, NY. Go Kate!

Once satiated, the battle began. The OG Susvara was the weapon to be wielded by both contenders. These are two beautiful sounding amps. The Riviera opened showing its full bass and midrange sheen. What a beautiful sound and these punches landed hard. Would this be a one round KO? Well, the little MK-465 took the shots and in comparison, showed off a tighter more controlled bass drive with quick hitting transients and a clarity to its overall presentation. Going back and forth on instrumentals neither initially had an advantage. At first, I would think the Riviera had the best sound, then upon switching to the MK-465 it would take about 5 seconds, and that became my preferred sound. Then back to the Riviera for more of the same, etc. Switching to some Oscar Peterson jazz and then Dire Straits I was finally getting more of a handle on the amps. The Riviera was characterized by a fuller sounding bass, thicker mids and a detailed treble. The MK-465 had a clearer, faster and at times more powerful bass while possessing beautiful mids of its own, while not as heavy, possessed more overall clarity. Possibly an even more detailed presentation and treble.

Me ( Frankie D ) checking out the cabling.

We then moved onto some vocals by Katie Melua, Hanne Boel and Sara K. Again, two terrific amps. But for me the 465 began to pull away. Its perfect timbre, clarity and detail coupling to sound a bit better to my ears. Eyal felt the opposite, but had to admit the power of the 465, just as I had to admit the lushness of the Riviera. I then played some Toto followed by Aja. The 465 really shined here with its faster bass and lower mids hitting and then hitting again without overlap. Without question I now favored the 465, but I also kept asking myself was I hearing the two best amplifiers currently available? At CanJam I thought the Narukami was the best I ever heard, but that was in a quiet room while the others were in an open space with a 70DB+ noise floor.

With the Susvara a slight edge to the MK-465. The Riviera had a totally different presentation though, that was warmer and lusher in the mids as setup by Eyal. If I were to ever get a Riviera, this would be the configuration I would want. I do prefer the 465, but I would love to have a Riviera. A Riviera just like this!

Eyal listening to the 465.

I was also very happy to see that my 465 could drive the Mod House Tungsten easily. In fact, I preferred it on the 465, though very close. At CanJam I had liked the single sided version on the HeadAmp CFA-3.

We then tried out a few other HPs. The Solitaire P sounded much better overall on the 465. More musical with less of an edge. Not sure why it was not as close. Both were good as to be expected, but vocals and rock were more to my liking.

The Sony MDR-R10 is a beautiful sounding headphone. While in no way as detailed or accurate as the SUS or Sol P, it possesses a beautiful engaging sound that just says sit back and enjoy. You want to know how impactful the bass was, how detailed the presentation, the soundstage…. STOP! This HP could care less, it says just says listen and enjoy my lighter yet musical presentation. Put your feet up and enjoy. Oh, the edge again goes to the MK-465 with its enhanced clarity and musical presentation.

Sony MDR-R10

Next up were the leather Audio Technicas of a few years ago. Same here. The 465 was able to energize the bass and mids to a higher degree than the Riviera.

Then came the ZMF Caldera Open. I like this HP. Beautiful on the Riviera, but the timbre, clarity, bass and overall presentation go to the MK-465.

At this point Eyal was providing me with my beginning lessons on the ZMF HPs. We switched to an OTL transformer less amplifier. The Riviera was shut down as he felt this Decware made amplifier worked better with the dynamic driver ZMF HPs. We listened to the Verite Open and the Atrium Open. Guess what? In a close battle, the OTL sounded best with these two HPs. They were slightly warmer and more polished on the OTL. I liked the 465, but the Decware Reference ZMF OTL wins with the CO and AO. An unbelievable upset, but true. You can’t win them all folks.

Decware Reference ZMF OTL is in the middle of the top shelf of the rack.

With the Atrium Closed, the Decware OTL and 465 were close. I might go 465 but would not really argue with anyone preferring the OTL. The AC can provide more bass than the AO, and the MK-465 was happy to oblige making this choice a toss-up.

However, the OTL was not the best with the Sennheiser 800S. Here the MK-465 had the bass, mids, treble, everything firing. Not close.

We also tested one other that I preferred on the 465, but I do not remember its name.

In summary, what a grand afternoon. I was very happy to see that my 465 could handle so many different HPs equally well. It really is a special amp. Oh, and terrific with IEMs as well if anyone cares. And yes, having a Riviera would be like having it all (as set up by Eyal). It would be a perfect complement to the MK-465, expensive, but perfect. But the surprise of the day was the Decware Reference ZMF OTL. Instead of eliminating an amp from my wish list, I now have two! Well, I did find a parking space near the event avoiding having to pay a garage. Maybe that will help. How much is that ZMF amp? Anyone know of a good equipment stand I can place on my desk that is only 12” deep?

Eyal, as always, the perfect host and audio expert beyond compare. Thank you for a wonderful afternoon.

 

[De7mi]

As promised.

Comparison of Mass-Kobo 465 vs Riviera AIC10-Bal

The big day finally arrived. Eyal( @goldwerger ) and I have been talking about getting together to compare these two beauties for some time now, and Eyal was kind enough to host the big battle at his place.

We started with Eggplant rolls from the Pelham Pizzeria as it is always best to start these heavyweight battles on a full stomach. By the way, Kate Douglas, who just won the Gold Medal in the 200M Breaststroke, is from Pelham, NY. Go Kate!

Once satiated, the battle began. The OG Susvara was the weapon to be wielded by both contenders. These are two beautiful sounding amps. The Riviera opened showing its full bass and midrange sheen. What a beautiful sound and these punches landed hard. Would this be a one round KO? Well, the little MK-465 took the shots and in comparison, showed off a tighter more controlled bass drive with quick hitting transients and a clarity to its overall presentation. Going back and forth on instrumentals neither initially had an advantage. At first, I would think the Riviera had the best sound, then upon switching to the MK-465 it would take about 5 seconds, and that became my preferred sound. Then back to the Riviera for more of the same, etc. Switching to some Oscar Peterson jazz and then Dire Straits I was finally getting more of a handle on the amps. The Riviera was characterized by a fuller sounding bass, thicker mids and a detailed treble. The MK-465 had a clearer, faster and at times more powerful bass while possessing beautiful mids of its own, while not as heavy, possessed more overall clarity. Possibly an even more detailed presentation and treble.


Me ( Frankie D ) checking out the cabling.

We then moved onto some vocals by Katie Melua, Hanne Boel and Sara K. Again, two terrific amps. But for me the 465 began to pull away. Its perfect timbre, clarity and detail coupling to sound a bit better to my ears. Eyal felt the opposite, but had to admit the power of the 465, just as I had to admit the lushness of the Riviera. I then played some Toto followed by Aja. The 465 really shined here with its faster bass and lower mids hitting and then hitting again without overlap. Without question I now favored the 465, but I also kept asking myself was I hearing the two best amplifiers currently available? At CanJam I thought the Narukami was the best I ever heard, but that was in a quiet room while the others were in an open space with a 70DB+ noise floor.

With the Susvara a slight edge to the MK-465. The Riviera had a totally different presentation though, that was warmer and lusher in the mids as setup by Eyal. If I were to ever get a Riviera, this would be the configuration I would want. I do prefer the 465, but I would love to have a Riviera. A Riviera just like this!


Eyal listening to the 465.

I was also very happy to see that my 465 could drive the Mod House Tungsten easily. In fact, I preferred it on the 465, though very close. At CanJam I had liked the single sided version on the HeadAmp CFA-3.

We then tried out a few other HPs. The Solitaire P sounded much better overall on the 465. More musical with less of an edge. Not sure why it was not as close. Both were good as to be expected, but vocals and rock were more to my liking.

The Sony MDR-R10 is a beautiful sounding headphone. While in no way as detailed or accurate as the SUS or Sol P, it possesses a beautiful engaging sound that just says sit back and enjoy. You want to know how impactful the bass was, how detailed the presentation, the soundstage…. STOP! This HP could care less, it says just says listen and enjoy my lighter yet musical presentation. Put your feet up and enjoy. Oh, the edge again goes to the MK-465 with its enhanced clarity and musical presentation.


Sony MDR-R10

Next up were the leather Audio Technicas of a few years ago. Same here. The 465 was able to energize the bass and mids to a higher degree than the Riviera.

Then came the ZMF Caldera Open. I like this HP. Beautiful on the Riviera, but the timbre, clarity, bass and overall presentation go to the MK-465.

At this point Eyal was providing me with my beginning lessons on the ZMF HPs. We switched to an OTL transformer less amplifier. The Riviera was shut down as he felt this Decware made amplifier worked better with the dynamic driver ZMF HPs. We listened to the Verite Open and the Atrium Open. Guess what? In a close battle, the OTL sounded best with these two HPs. They were slightly warmer and more polished on the OTL. I liked the 465, but the Decware Reference ZMF OTL wins with the CO and AO. An unbelievable upset, but true. You can’t win them all folks.


Decware Reference ZMF OTL is in the middle of the top shelf of the rack.

With the Atrium Closed, the Decware OTL and 465 were close. I might go 465 but would not really argue with anyone preferring the OTL. The AC can provide more bass than the AO, and the MK-465 was happy to oblige making this choice a toss-up.

However, the OTL was not the best with the Sennheiser 800S. Here the MK-465 had the bass, mids, treble, everything firing. Not close.

We also tested one other that I preferred on the 465, but I do not remember its name.

In summary, what a grand afternoon. I was very happy to see that my 465 could handle so many different HPs equally well. It really is a special amp. Oh, and terrific with IEMs as well if anyone cares. And yes, having a Riviera would be like having it all (as set up by Eyal). It would be a perfect complement to the MK-465, expensive, but perfect. But the surprise of the day was the Decware Reference ZMF OTL. Instead of eliminating an amp from my wish list, I now have two! Well, I did find a parking space near the event avoiding having to pay a garage. Maybe that will help. How much is that ZMF amp? Anyone know of a good equipment stand I can place on my desk that is only 12” deep?

Eyal, as always, the perfect host and audio expert beyond compare. Thank you for a wonderful afternoon.

Such great read ! Great write up and great comparison Frankie! I thoroughly enjoyed it.

If @goldwerger can also writes down his views of this comparison it would be awesome to see the different preferences of both of you guys!

I was surprised that 465 was able to easily drive the Tungsten DS, what db did you listen at with the tungsten and how much headroom left ?

 

[ewppl]

was surprised that 465 was able to easily drive the Tungsten DS, what db did you listen at with the tungsten and how much headroom left ?

465 is an extremely powerful amp. using high gain, it should easily take care of the job. however, as a potential buyer for a tungsten myself, i’m curious about this as well.