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MARANTZ - SA-KI PEARL SACD - CD PLAYER as a headphone amp?
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Gradofan2
Headphoneus Supremus
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Don't know about the Pearl, or SA-15S2, but the SA-8001 is superb - the reviews compare it quite favorably to the higher-end Marantz CDP's. The headphone amp is also superb - it compares very well to my other amps - including my WA6SEM - maybe just a wee bit smaller soundstage, and a touch less resolution... but... very comparable. So much so... that I've recently thought I might sell all my other stuff and just keep my SA-8001 - it sounds so incredible!
It sounds great with both high and low impedance phones (Senns and Grados / Denons) - POT at about 1-2 O'clock plays almost too loud with either. A very rich, warm, full, yet detailed, clear sound.
The headphone circuit is only on the CDP's up to the 15S2 (and maybe the Pearl) - not on the 11S2 and above (down).
For my money (about $650) - I'd get the SA-8001 (if you can find one) and forget the rest - it's that good (the SA-8003 is not comparable)! It reminds me a lot of the Solo II, I had.
It sounds great with both high and low impedance phones (Senns and Grados / Denons) - POT at about 1-2 O'clock plays almost too loud with either. A very rich, warm, full, yet detailed, clear sound.
The headphone circuit is only on the CDP's up to the 15S2 (and maybe the Pearl) - not on the 11S2 and above (down).
For my money (about $650) - I'd get the SA-8001 (if you can find one) and forget the rest - it's that good (the SA-8003 is not comparable)! It reminds me a lot of the Solo II, I had.
Uncle Erik
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X2 on the SA8001. The headphone section is really quite good - I often use it when it's hot and I don't want the tube beasties to warm up the room any more. Maybe not the last word in amplification, but I can listen all day without being distracted by problems.
Check Stereophile's review of the SA8001 and you'll notice just how good the measurements and test results are. John Atkinson said, "It may be affordably priced, but the Marantz SA8001's measured performance is beyond reproach." You might get a fancier case, but I don't see how much improvement could be had over those numbers. Now that the SA8001 is selling for $500-$600, it's probably the best deal going.
Also, I've had zero problems with mine and I bought it (IIRC) around the end of 2006.
Check Stereophile's review of the SA8001 and you'll notice just how good the measurements and test results are. John Atkinson said, "It may be affordably priced, but the Marantz SA8001's measured performance is beyond reproach." You might get a fancier case, but I don't see how much improvement could be had over those numbers. Now that the SA8001 is selling for $500-$600, it's probably the best deal going.
Also, I've had zero problems with mine and I bought it (IIRC) around the end of 2006.
I have just listened to 15s2 and ki pearl (which cannot be sold alone, so I'm not even interested in buying it)
15s2 integrated amp - don't even bother to listen, totally crap
ki pearl - MUCH, MUCH better, better everything - resolution, low/mid-bass, better vocals and details BUT to wake up my HD600 (I knew hd600 would be a hard test for these built-in amps) both amps inside these players have to be about 4 o'clock so they are just too weak (+hearing slight hiss at this volume level)
comparing to wooaudio there is nothing to compare ... I would never buy this player without dedicated headamp, I have heard woo, rudistor, graham and this is just like compare volkswagen to porsche
no life, no spark, no proper low-bass, vocals, NO HOLOGRAPHY at all (flat 2d presentation), NO 3D, NO SPEED and PRAT ? you've got to be kidding me guys - listen to woo 6 with sophia&pdps to know what the real prat is, despite its tubes !
I have been listening to headphone rigs for about 15 years and I tell you something: forget about built-in amps if you are experienced headphone listener ... but I had to give it a try ... Now I know ... Selling wooaudio 6 was my biggest mistake, now It's time to go back to Jack's camp, after hearing rudistor and graham (wanted finally quit tubes, but there is no way to go back after u heard some GOOD tube amp, transistor even in dual mono, high-end, pure class-A, with best RLC components and even with best, full, extremely fast low-bass is just dead and empty inside, tube reproduction is closest to me comparing to the music that is played in a real life, using real instruments just like mtv unplugged performance)
I can't review quality of these sources, because I didn't get my dedicated amps - I just wanted to check the built-in amps ...
15s2 integrated amp - don't even bother to listen, totally crap
ki pearl - MUCH, MUCH better, better everything - resolution, low/mid-bass, better vocals and details BUT to wake up my HD600 (I knew hd600 would be a hard test for these built-in amps) both amps inside these players have to be about 4 o'clock so they are just too weak (+hearing slight hiss at this volume level)
comparing to wooaudio there is nothing to compare ... I would never buy this player without dedicated headamp, I have heard woo, rudistor, graham and this is just like compare volkswagen to porsche
no life, no spark, no proper low-bass, vocals, NO HOLOGRAPHY at all (flat 2d presentation), NO 3D, NO SPEED and PRAT ? you've got to be kidding me guys - listen to woo 6 with sophia&pdps to know what the real prat is, despite its tubes !
I have been listening to headphone rigs for about 15 years and I tell you something: forget about built-in amps if you are experienced headphone listener ... but I had to give it a try ... Now I know ... Selling wooaudio 6 was my biggest mistake, now It's time to go back to Jack's camp, after hearing rudistor and graham (wanted finally quit tubes, but there is no way to go back after u heard some GOOD tube amp, transistor even in dual mono, high-end, pure class-A, with best RLC components and even with best, full, extremely fast low-bass is just dead and empty inside, tube reproduction is closest to me comparing to the music that is played in a real life, using real instruments just like mtv unplugged performance)
I can't review quality of these sources, because I didn't get my dedicated amps - I just wanted to check the built-in amps ...
daltonlanny
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X 3 on the Marantz SA8001. I had to sell mine a couple of years ago due to financial woes, and I regret every minute of it!
At the time I owned it, I also bought a Cambridge Azur 840c and Rega Saturn dedicated cd players just to compare them. I liked the sound of the 8001 better than either of them and wound up selling them! The Marantz was also considerably less expensive than either of them.
To my ears, the 8001 simply had a slightly more organic, natural, open, and spacious sound than either the Cambridge or the Rega. Not a big difference to be sure...but there, nevertheless.
Plus, neither of them had a dedicated headphone jack.
The headphone jack on the 8001 was superior to headphone jacks on other cd players that I had tried, and I loved it.
It drove my Sennheiser HD600/HD650's with more than enough volume, and sounded absolutely wonderful.
I also, at that time, had a HeadAmp GS-1 headphone amp which sounded great as well.
But on an absolute basis, and very surprisingly, the GS-1 was NOT a big step-up from the 8001's headphone jack!
And this was using VERY EXPENSIVE Harmonic Technology Pro-Silway Mk.3 interconnects between the 8001 and the GS-1.
Sure, you could get more volume, slightly more punch, and slightly more powerful bass with the GS-1, but the sound signature of both was VERY similar! I wound up selling the GS-1, and was happy just listening to my Sennheisers with the jack on the Marantz.
If a person could tweak the headphone circuitry on the 8001...Wow!
I now own the less expensive CD5001 and CD5003 cd players, and they are not in the same league as the 8001, IMHO.
The 5001 has a great headphone jack, but not as good as the 8001. The 5001 has a slightly thin, sort of bass shy, and slightly veiled sound compared to the 8001. The 8001 has better dynamics, bass, body, spaciousness, and overall clarity compared to the 5001. This is through the headphone jack and the RCA outs.
The 5003 is sort of the opposite of the 5001. It is a tad darker, and slightly more closed in compared to the 5001, but the 5003 does have alittle better dynamics, body, and punch than the 5001. Overall, the 5003 is slightly superior to the 5001, IMHO.
One thing I don't like about the 5003 compared to the 5001, is there is a slight forwardness to a certain part of the mids that can become fatiguing sometimes, especially on female vocals, and the headphone jack is not quite as good as the 5001.
If I ever come across another 8001, I am buying it in a heartbeat!
At the time I owned it, I also bought a Cambridge Azur 840c and Rega Saturn dedicated cd players just to compare them. I liked the sound of the 8001 better than either of them and wound up selling them! The Marantz was also considerably less expensive than either of them.
To my ears, the 8001 simply had a slightly more organic, natural, open, and spacious sound than either the Cambridge or the Rega. Not a big difference to be sure...but there, nevertheless.
Plus, neither of them had a dedicated headphone jack.
The headphone jack on the 8001 was superior to headphone jacks on other cd players that I had tried, and I loved it.
It drove my Sennheiser HD600/HD650's with more than enough volume, and sounded absolutely wonderful.
I also, at that time, had a HeadAmp GS-1 headphone amp which sounded great as well.
But on an absolute basis, and very surprisingly, the GS-1 was NOT a big step-up from the 8001's headphone jack!
And this was using VERY EXPENSIVE Harmonic Technology Pro-Silway Mk.3 interconnects between the 8001 and the GS-1.
Sure, you could get more volume, slightly more punch, and slightly more powerful bass with the GS-1, but the sound signature of both was VERY similar! I wound up selling the GS-1, and was happy just listening to my Sennheisers with the jack on the Marantz.
If a person could tweak the headphone circuitry on the 8001...Wow!
I now own the less expensive CD5001 and CD5003 cd players, and they are not in the same league as the 8001, IMHO.
The 5001 has a great headphone jack, but not as good as the 8001. The 5001 has a slightly thin, sort of bass shy, and slightly veiled sound compared to the 8001. The 8001 has better dynamics, bass, body, spaciousness, and overall clarity compared to the 5001. This is through the headphone jack and the RCA outs.
The 5003 is sort of the opposite of the 5001. It is a tad darker, and slightly more closed in compared to the 5001, but the 5003 does have alittle better dynamics, body, and punch than the 5001. Overall, the 5003 is slightly superior to the 5001, IMHO.
One thing I don't like about the 5003 compared to the 5001, is there is a slight forwardness to a certain part of the mids that can become fatiguing sometimes, especially on female vocals, and the headphone jack is not quite as good as the 5001.
If I ever come across another 8001, I am buying it in a heartbeat!
Gradofan2
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Yep... it was DaltonLanny's review / comments about the SA-8001 that motivated me to research it, and try it... and... I wasn't disappointed. In fact, I was amazed!
Again... if you can find one on Audiogon, or eBay, or whereever - get it! You'll be very pleased!
Again... if you can find one on Audiogon, or eBay, or whereever - get it! You'll be very pleased!
KevinR70
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Quote:
My 8001 has the headphone out, which makes a great 2nd headphone rig with my 650's (doesn't do as well with my low impedance phones), but my SA-7s1 does not. I imagine the Pearl headphone out would be very good based on my experience with the 8001.
daltonlanny
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hey - it's just my personal opinion - no offence, they might be great sources - I will check this out as soon as I get my woo5LE
maybe I demand too much from built-in amp ... I am interested in listening of legendary sa8001 as a source ... but my local dealer haven't got it ... I guess it's outdated now ...
"My 8001 has the headphone out, which makes a great 2nd headphone rig with my 650's (doesn't do as well with my low impedance phones), but my SA-7s1 does not. I imagine the Pearl headphone out would be very good based on my experience with the 8001."
haha ! maybe sa8001 has the best built-in amp, worth to give it a try !
"The 5001 has a great headphone jack, but not as good as the 8001. The 5001 has a slightly thin, sort of bass shy, and slightly veiled sound compared to the 8001. The 8001 has better dynamics, bass, body, spaciousness, and overall clarity compared to the 5001. This is through the headphone jack and the RCA outs."
that's exactly like comparing 15s2 headphone out to KI PEARL. I could live with KI PEARL built-in amp happy somehow, but it's just not what I am looking for after listening to many dedicated amps ...
btw. build quality is superb, they are both built like a tank ... heavy weight & enormous size, unfortunately they are very loud when they start spinning the disc, KI PEARL noise dissapeared when it started to play tracks, but 15s2 noise was still there - this is unacceptable in this price range, especially when you listen to the music at night on low volume levels (it will be audible when u use open headphones)
maybe I demand too much from built-in amp ... I am interested in listening of legendary sa8001 as a source ... but my local dealer haven't got it ... I guess it's outdated now ...
"My 8001 has the headphone out, which makes a great 2nd headphone rig with my 650's (doesn't do as well with my low impedance phones), but my SA-7s1 does not. I imagine the Pearl headphone out would be very good based on my experience with the 8001."
haha ! maybe sa8001 has the best built-in amp, worth to give it a try !
"The 5001 has a great headphone jack, but not as good as the 8001. The 5001 has a slightly thin, sort of bass shy, and slightly veiled sound compared to the 8001. The 8001 has better dynamics, bass, body, spaciousness, and overall clarity compared to the 5001. This is through the headphone jack and the RCA outs."
that's exactly like comparing 15s2 headphone out to KI PEARL. I could live with KI PEARL built-in amp happy somehow, but it's just not what I am looking for after listening to many dedicated amps ...
btw. build quality is superb, they are both built like a tank ... heavy weight & enormous size, unfortunately they are very loud when they start spinning the disc, KI PEARL noise dissapeared when it started to play tracks, but 15s2 noise was still there - this is unacceptable in this price range, especially when you listen to the music at night on low volume levels (it will be audible when u use open headphones)
Gradofan2
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All I can tell you is...
... the turntable on the SA-8001 doesn't make a lot of noise while spinning, as you describe of the others you've tried - it's pretty quiet, though, the drawer makes noise when it opens and closes.
... the amp on the SA-8001 does drive my low impedance Grados and Denons very well. When I first tried them it didn't seem to drive them well, but they now sound great through it - must have needed burn in. And... its even better with Senns.
And... yes... my WA6SEM still has a slightly, "wee bit" better sound - but, the SA-8001 costs only $500-650 for both the CDP... and... the amp. The sound of the SA-8001 is still great!
For most people, it's all they'll ever want / need... except... for those who are driven to obtain that last 10% in sound quality, which you must struggle to detect. I'm learning that such an obsessive pursuit is very costly and time consuming, and not really that rewarding - that last 10%, or so, just doesn't make that much difference. That's not to say... that... you may be able to spend a lot more money for both your source... and... your amp, and obtain a detectable improvement - but, at what cost in time and money. And... is that small improvement really worth it - I don't think so.
... the turntable on the SA-8001 doesn't make a lot of noise while spinning, as you describe of the others you've tried - it's pretty quiet, though, the drawer makes noise when it opens and closes.
... the amp on the SA-8001 does drive my low impedance Grados and Denons very well. When I first tried them it didn't seem to drive them well, but they now sound great through it - must have needed burn in. And... its even better with Senns.
And... yes... my WA6SEM still has a slightly, "wee bit" better sound - but, the SA-8001 costs only $500-650 for both the CDP... and... the amp. The sound of the SA-8001 is still great!
For most people, it's all they'll ever want / need... except... for those who are driven to obtain that last 10% in sound quality, which you must struggle to detect. I'm learning that such an obsessive pursuit is very costly and time consuming, and not really that rewarding - that last 10%, or so, just doesn't make that much difference. That's not to say... that... you may be able to spend a lot more money for both your source... and... your amp, and obtain a detectable improvement - but, at what cost in time and money. And... is that small improvement really worth it - I don't think so.
maybe sa8001 is such good one ... maybe you should try to compare it using some high Z headphones like hd600 (especially hard to drive if you want to really wake it up) to know what I mean or MAYBE it's the matter of source, not built-in amps, beacuse all my comparisons was to my 12 years old arcam alpha 9 cd player with dCS Ring Dac inside, and If so, I can only say how pathetic marantz sources are ...
It was not like 10% but like about 50%, I won't even bother if there was about 10%, I just want to listen real musicians and real instruments located in a real soundstage, with stunning transients, vibrant vocals, great texture, tonality, impact and transparency what I was definately getting using arcam alpha 9 cd + wooaudio 6 maxed & HD600
It was not like 10% but like about 50%, I won't even bother if there was about 10%, I just want to listen real musicians and real instruments located in a real soundstage, with stunning transients, vibrant vocals, great texture, tonality, impact and transparency what I was definately getting using arcam alpha 9 cd + wooaudio 6 maxed & HD600
I have a PM-KI Pearl amp but not the SA-KI Pearl CD player.
I wonder if there's anyone who heard both the amp and the CD players headphone output.
Would the amp have a discrete headphone amp built in as well?
I wonder if there's anyone who heard both the amp and the CD players headphone output.
Would the amp have a discrete headphone amp built in as well?
twizzleraddict
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Any thoughts on the SA8003 player? Wondering if anyone has any real-world experience. Usually things that "measure" well may not end up sounding as good as it seems. I've always had to take Stereophile's reviews with a grain of salt.
coolguyalex
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Also interested in how the SA8003 compares to the SA8001 as it is impossible to find the latter. What's perhaps even more interesting is the SA-KI Pearl Lite SACD player. Has anyone had any experience with this model? It also has a headphone out. For me it's between these three models and the Cambridge Audio 840C (which is looking pretty lacklustre at the moment but I can get it cheap..).
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