[dshea_32665]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Origen Perhaps a "Mahler On The Cheap" thread could be started for those who prefer adequate recordings along with some pocket change, over outstanding new American recordings. It reminds me of the old hippie mentality, still prevalent among Deadheads, that all music should be free.

Some people are in this from different perspectives. I agree with both of you. My thought is if you are going to charge a lot more for a recording, it needs to be really good, and hopefully better than it's competitors. Whether MTT does this, I think is personal opinion. I actually do believe he offers a superior product with the innovative recording quality that is getting rave reviews. I think the playing and interpretation ranks up there with the giants. So do many, and those are the people who are going to buy the recording. If I wasn't trying to get caught up here with so many pieces, I would consider buying it, and hopefully I will at some point.

The extra costs which you mentioned are so true and I think portray and accurate picture of the situation. However, even though they may take a financial hit for less sales and production costs, these recordings are one hell of a calling card, and the reputation and prestige of MTT and the orchestra is growing to new heights. Hey we are talking about them here aren't we? As more people get excited about these recordings, and they age a bit, I am sure prices will be reduced and then they will sell even more. They will get less return, but still a return. Kind of sounds like audio.

As for DA's and Scottder's argument for not spending more money than they have to, this is also an excellent strategy for buying more recordings and spreading the wealth. These recordings have stood the test of time, they are classics and should be purchased. With limited budgets and all of our voracious appetites to acquire the latest recommendation, we can then buy more recordings and let those orchestras benefit.

I know I am stating the obvious and not trying to be righteous, but you are both absolutely right in your arguments.

Back to Mahler...


dshea

 

[DarkAngel]

Dshea
Rest assured you have two of the greatest recordings HVK ever made:
Karajan/VPO/DG Bruckner 8
Karajan/BPO/DG Mahler 9 (live)

Unfortunately these are priced accordingly

 

[Bill Ward]

With 30 pages of discussion behind us, I hardly think the perjorative "adequate recordiings" is a fair assessment of those portions of the Mahler discography not by MTT. I would also hazard that a representative collection of the recommended recordings reviewed in this thread would be anything but "Mahler on the Cheap."

Chaqu'un à son gout, my friend.

BW

 

[Origen]

I must apologize. I overlooked the fact that there might be young schoolkids here, who have to skim funds from their lunch money for weeks in order to buy a CD at retail price.

Sorry, children, when you grow up and have jobs, then you may be able to afford to buy the San Francisco Symphony releases. In the meantime, you'll just have to do without the series, unless maybe a couple of you can pool your funds together and share one CD between you.

 

[dshea_32665]

Relistened to my Szell Mahler 6, and I think I didn't give it enough time. As I am comparing my Brahms Symphonies between Jochum and Szell, I was able to put my finger on it. Szell is more a classicist while some of the others like Bernstein or Jochum are more romantics, apollo vs. dionysian. My favorite Szell recordings that I have shared here have tended to be more classical in nature, balance, purity of content, letting the music speak for itself. As for Mahler, Mahler 4 is more classical in nature than the other symphonies. So when I got to the Sixth, I wanted power and emotion, and it isn't there as much as Bernstein. When I went back to listen to the Sixth with this realization, it was much more rewarding. The third movement especially is amazing!! Szell does let his hair down every once in awhile

(insert snicker for those who have seen a picture of Szell), but everything is more elegant and composed. I think I prefer the Bernstein to the Szell recording, but the Szell recording finally got my attention and I can see why it is highly regarded. For a live radio broadcast recording, the playing is truly exceptional. The orchestra really shows its talents.

I know DA is thinking that I am just rationalizing here and that I am reacting to the flogging I took from departing from the almighty. Perhaps you are right, but my mind is at peace now.

Anyway, it was interesting to think of these conductors in this way. It might shed some understanding and appreciation for some other performances we have discussed.

Cheers,
dshea

 

[Tyson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Origen I must apologize. I overlooked the fact that there might be young schoolkids here, who have to skim funds from their lunch money for weeks in order to buy a CD at retail price. Sorry, children, when you grow up and have jobs, then you may be able to afford to buy the San Francisco Symphony releases. In the meantime, you'll just have to do without the series, unless maybe a couple of you can pool your funds together and share one CD between you.

Origen - bitch slapping people around in a Mahler thread is like someone beating up Stephen Hawking. So ludicrous as to be extremely funny. Please continue to pontificate on why my collection of 3000 cd's makes me too cheap to buy MTT disks.

 

[scottder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Origen I must apologize. I overlooked the fact that there might be young schoolkids here, who have to skim funds from their lunch money for weeks in order to buy a CD at retail price. Sorry, children, when you grow up and have jobs, then you may be able to afford to buy the San Francisco Symphony releases. In the meantime, you'll just have to do without the series, unless maybe a couple of you can pool your funds together and share one CD between you.

and when you have something meaningful to contribute, please feel free to come back.

 

[Origen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyson Origen - bitch slapping people around in a Mahler thread is like someone beating up Stephen Hawking. So ludicrous as to be extremely funny. Please continue to pontificate on why my collection of 3000 cd's makes me too cheap to buy MTT disks.

I'm glad you are having a good time. I'm sure I didn't mention you specifically. If you are indeed too cheap, the reasons for your attitude are up to you to determine, or not.

 

[Origen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottder and when you have something meaningful to contribute, please feel free to come back.

I'm not going anywhere, but please do feel free to leave if the tension is too unbearable for you.

It is hard for me to believe some of the cheapskates here are serious. Why not make CDRs of everything you like in your local library--that would really save you some money. We're not talking about some CD costing $1000 or something. What's five lousy bucks? That's nothing even to a burger flipper.

The idea of ranking Mahler by price point is below ludicrous.

 

[Nick Dangerous]

Let's not turn this into an antagonistic exchange. It is important to support quality recordings by purchasing the best copy available, high or low prices notwithstanding. I'm certain that those who are passionate about obtaining the best versions of their favorite recordings will seek them out and purchase them as is appropriate.

Now can we get back to discussing the music, pretty please?

 

[scottder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Dangerous Let's not turn this into an antagonistic exchange. It is important to support quality recordings by purchasing the best copy available, high or low prices notwithstanding. I'm certain that those who are passionate about obtaining the best versions of their favorite recordings will seek them out and purchase them as is appropriate. Now can we get back to discussing the music, pretty please?

Yes more Mahler talk, less flinging insults at people would be great.

 

[JayG]

Look, this has gotten blown way out of proportion. It's not a battle between people who are willing to buy the MTT recordings and people who aren't. It's all about perspective, really. I do not feel that the MTT recordings are overpriced, because overpriced to me means that a product's markup is much too high for its cost to produce. As all of the bickering here has concluded, this is not the case. This does not mean, however, that they are not priced higher than much of the competition. Some people just look at the available recordings and can't justify the $30+ for an MTT disc when they can get a quality performance of the same piece for $15. They accept the fact that they may not get the breathtaking sound quality of the SFS releases, and the fact that they may be missing out on an interpretation they might really like. It all comes back to risk vs. reward. I took the plunge and got the MTT M6 shortly after it came out, which was the first in the series. I have bought every one since and will buy the rest of the cycle, and I don't regret it one bit. But that's me, and other people may not get the same satisfaction out of them that I do to make it worth their $30.

Neither side is the only right answer. One should not say that the MTT recordings are the best just because they cost the most, or that nobody can dislike them. But one should also not say that they are unequivocably not worth it, and that the prices are "outrageous," because we have seen that they are not when considered relative to what they cost to make. Also I don't understand why the MTT recordings are being singled out as though no CDs can compare to them in sky-high pricing. The new Boulez / VPO M3 costs just the same as the SFS recordings, and if the sources cited earlier in the thread are correct, the production costs for the Boulez are far less, maybe even half that of the MTT. So which one, then, is more overpriced? Or how about the live Karajan M9? It is also comparable in price, and it was made in the 80's in a live setting for, I'm sure, a fraction of the cost. The expense and technology of modern recording and SACD and multichannel recording was not even a realistic theory at the time. Not to mention that it has had an opportunity to make up costs for a longer period of time since it has been out for so long. Is it not the most overpriced of the three, then? The same goes for the Karajan Bruckner 8 that was mentioned. There will always be recordings that come at a premium price for one reason or another, but to categorically praise or trash them based on price is assinine. It is a perfectly acceptable factor to mention in a recommendation of whether you think it is a good purchase or not, but it shouldn't be the only factor. I have recordings that I paid $35 for that I fully believe are worth every penny, and I also have ones that I payed $8 for and feel like I got ripped off.

I'm a college student and as such, I certainly do not have vast monetary resources to buy all the recordings I want at any price. But that's not going to keep me from splurging on expensive performances if I feel they are worth it, or from saving some money by finding great performances at great prices if they present themselves. It's a case by case game, folks, let's keep that in mind always. I'm not going to recommend a bargain performance that I haven't heard because it's cheap, nor recommend against an expensive recording I haven't heard because the price is too steep.

Sorry for being long winded. Can we abandon this and get back to the insightful discussion of this spectacular music?

-Jay

 

[dshea_32665]

Thank you for the right up Jay. Very articulate.

Back to Mahler. Hey does anybody know of works in the pipeline that will be released in the next year? I know MTT/SFSO and Rattle are mid way through their cycles, what are the next from these or any others that I am not aware of?

Also, how is Bernstein 5 and 10? With the Bernstein set, is that with Vienna and New York?

thanks,
dshea

 

[scottder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dshea_32665 Thank you for the right up Jay. Very articulate. Back to Mahler. Hey does anybody know of works in the pipeline that will be released in the next year? I know MTT/SFSO and Rattle are mid way through their cycles, what are the next from these or any others that I am not aware of? Also, how is Bernstein 5 and 10? With the Bernstein set, is that with Vienna and New York? thanks, dshea

The Bernstein set from Sony is with NY. I don't think he ever did a complete 10, Just the Adagio.

Rattle's M8 is due out soon, I don't know the exact date on that.

Scott

 

[saxphile]

All this discussion about new Mahler cycles has been really tempting... But I've just spent a crap load of money (well.. by a graduate student's standard, anyway) on upgrading my system... Must... resisti... buying more CDs...

Anyhow, after getting my new setup (see sig), I've noticed an anomaly in Barbirolli's M6 on EMI. A low-frequecy hum that sounds a little like double bass or a human bass humming appears randomly during the play, has anyone else noticed this? I tried several amps, and they all had this problem. I haven't notice this problem on any other recordings so I think the source is fine, too.

I'm guessing that it's some noise introduced during the reprocessing, any thoughts?