[scottder]

Looks like that Kubelik only comes in the set (on CD), but there is also this but I don't believe it's the same performance.

 

[Bunnyears]

Actually that looks like the same performance with the chorus and orchestra of Bavarian Radio works. Same soloists, but I couldn't find it for sale anywhere. kubelik's Mahler is definitely not a syrupy one. it is a cerebral work and very different from what I had been listening to with the Bernstein. I've ordered the boxed set now from both Kubelik and Bernstein (Sony). I am so reluctant to play the old vinyl with any frequency because of the nature of the medium (each playing deteriorates the surface no matter how good the cartridge, turntable, etc.), and these are recordings that I have since highschool. Comparing how each conductor treats the material will be very interesting. Fyi, Kubelik's version of the 1st Symphony which I do not have, is considered to be one of the greatest. When I hear it, I'll let you know how it stands up to the Bernstein which I love. Also, though not properly in this thread, my Kubelik 5th came with the Lieder eines gefahrenden Gesellen sung by Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau, and that is completely magnificent. But I've been a Dietrich groupy since the age of about 11.

 

[scottder]

I too enjoy the Kubelik M1, Walter seems popular, but somehow it didn't work for me. I also like the Bernstein one on the DG Panorama set.

 

[Bunnyears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottder Looks like that Kubelik only comes in the set (on CD), but there is also this but I don't believe it's the same performance.

I've rechecked and it is a different performance. Everything else is the same, but the Alto on mine is sung by Norma Procter not Brigitte Fassbänder. Date of my recording is earlier too. I believe I had it before the birth of my oldest in '79. After the kids were born I bought mostly cassette recordings because it was impossible to juggle babies and LPs. A number of good recordings were trashed in that way.

 

[Masonjar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears I've rechecked and it is a different performance. Everything else is the same, but the Alto on mine is sung by Norma Procter not Brigitte Fassbänder. Date of my recording is earlier too. I believe I had it before the birth of my oldest in '79. After the kids were born I bought mostly cassette recordings because it was impossible to juggle babies and LPs. A number of good recordings were trashed in that way.

Many of my first classical recordings were on cassette..

One of my first Mahler 2nd's was the Kubelick, and yes, I had it on cassette too.. actually it's probably still up in the attic somewhere. Along with an outstanding combo tape, also from DG that had the wonderful Jochum/Dieskau CARMINA BURANA coupled with MTT's 70's peformance of Stravinsky's RITE OF SPRING. I was able to later aquire both of those performances on CD, but have not yet replaced the Kubelick M2. It's been probably over 10 years since I've heard it.. I thought the Polygram tapes were always sooo much better than the junk tapes that CBS/Columbia put out. Seems they were much more prone to having noisy mechanisms. Never had a problem with DG or Philips tapes.

It was a great way to "discover" music for a high school kid too.. lots and lots of bargain tapes were around back then, and many of them were very good performances. You had tons of recordings by Vernon Handly and Horenstein floating around the cut out bins. It was a great time to buy music on the cheap.

Probably the one tape that got me "hooked" on classical was a tape my mom had called CURTAIN RAISERS. Basically, all the major overtures as done up by Bernstein, Szell and Ormandy. I must have listened to that thing a hundred times. It really did feel like magic to my ears. Then I started listening to Tchaikovsky's 4th and it was all over..

-jar

 

[Masonjar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottder I second this, if you even just like a few of them, the Sony set is well worth the money. He just puts so much energy into thos peorformances, I really don't mind the "artistic licsense" he took with them.

His CBS/Sony M3 is definately one of the top 10 Mahler recordings of all time.



-jar

 

[Pars]

I don't mean to hijack this thread, so PM me or email me, but I had a question regarding this recording and headphones.

I used to use this recording (on LP) back in the mid-70s for evaluating speakers. In the finale, when the organ pedal comes in, alot of speakers will waver (or worse) on the trumpets, in particular. It got to the point where I vowed to buy the first set of speakers that would actually play this, and wound up with some Infinity Monitors (you should have seen/heard the Bose 901s squealing and jumping up and down on their stands!). My current speakers play this just fine, btw.

Last week I decided to take a listen to this on phones. My Grado SR125s thru my MINT amp exhibited the wavering behavior, but I chalked it up to the amp clipping (+/-12V wall powered, doubtful) or the phones. This past weekend I brought this recording with me to the Chicago meet, and listened to it on Senn 600/650s thru various amps (Gilmore Dynahi included). All of them exhibited this behavior to a certain extent, so my question for those of you who have this recording is what headphones/setup do you use that will play this correctly (i.e., stable trumpet pitch, etc.)? This is one of my favorite performances, and I would like to be able to listen to it without resorting to the main rig if I can.

My apologies as I don't mean to derail this great thread!

Chris

 

[dshea_32665]

I don't think your hijacking the thread Pars. In fact, I have been wanting to ask the gurus here about equipment to maximize performance of these great recordings we are talking about. I wanted to post this on the various source threads, but thought it might not get the attention as the people who are active here.

Anyway, I would love to hear the answer myself.

dshea

 

[Origen]

expense of recording an orchestra

This post and some others in the entire thread

full thread

mention what we were discussing earlier, about what an expensive proposition it is to record an American symphony orchestra nowadays, and why the Michael Tilson Thomas releases with the SFS are not overpriced.

 

[scottder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Origen expense of recording an orchestra This post and some others in the entire thread full thread mention what we were discussing earlier, about what an expensive proposition it is to record an American symphony orchestra nowadays, and why the Michael Tilson Thomas releases with the SFS are not overpriced.

No doubt it costs a lot to record these performances, just from a consumer standpoint, it's hard to swallow those prices when there are other great performances for half the price.

Scott

 

[Origen]

The consumer rarely gets the opportunity to buy new releases of American symphony orchestras because the expenses are too great for record companies to consider recording them in the first place. The orchestras and everyone involved have priced themselves out of the market, with initial recording costs and royalties. Keep in mind, classical sales are dismal compared to other genres, so the expenses cannot be spread out among hundreds of thousands of units sold--try sales in the single-digit-thousands instead for the *most popular* titles.

The Michael Tilson Thomas/SFS releases would cost even more if they had not been partially sponsored by wealthy patrons.

I am happy to pay several dollars extra to get these top-quality American recordings and performances. Recorded music is probably the biggest entertainment bargain there is. For the price of two people going to the movies and buying popcorn, you can buy a 2-SACD/CD set of Mahler conducted by Michael Tilson Thomas and play it a thousand times if you care to.

I think it's the height of self-defeating stinginess to reject purchasing these titles because they cost several dollars more than a standard release. I enjoy bargains as much as the next person, but I'm not going to look in used CD stores for the next 25 years in the hope of saving $5.

 

[scottder]

I guess we have differing opinions on this and leave at that. Trying to keep this a supportive thread, which are getting rare on Head-Fi these days.

 

[Origen]

Perhaps a "Mahler On The Cheap" thread could be started for those who prefer adequate recordings along with some pocket change, over outstanding new American recordings. It reminds me of the old hippie mentality, still prevalent among Deadheads, that all music should be free.

 

[scottder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Origen Perhaps a "Mahler On The Cheap" thread could be started for those who prefer adequate recordings along with some pocket change, over outstanding new American recordings. It reminds me of the old hippie mentality, still prevalent among Deadheads, that all music should be free.

I've spent plenty on new recordings, we were simply stating that relative to other recordings it seemed, it may very well be worth, and I *MAY* pick it up, I've heard good and bad about it that also makes me hesitate. This wasn't an attempt to start an argument, simply pointing out that the MTT discs are a bit more expensive, and thus not attractive as other cheaper sets, nothing to do with the quality of the recording. So let's not make this into a 'thing' ok.. like say discussing the merits of the MTT recording versus other (be they more or less expensive). Ok...thanks...

 

[dshea_32665]

Karajan Mahler 9, 1982

I was hoping to get a new recording that would convey much emotion and energy, compared to my Boulez/CSO.

The playing on the Boulez recording is slightly more polished, in fact it is perfection, but of course it is a studio recording.

As I listened to the Karajan first movement I was immediately struck by the sound/recording quality. Maybe my Senn HD650/Zu set is really kicking in, or this is one of the best sound quality recordings I own, and it is live. It is really stunning.

However, back to the story, after some missed notes in the trumpet and a lick in my beloved clarinet section, I was thinking this is okay. I wasn't blown out of the water by the performance but thought this was very good, satisfying and I am happy with it.

Then came the 2nd and 3rd movements, which as we all know, are perhaps less moving and passionate than the outer movements. I always enjoyed these movements but they never really grabbed me, until this recording. These movements are amazing. You really get a sense the performers are in the zone and creating perfection, and knowing it. I experience this sometimes in concerts and it is a phenomenal feeling, although I have never been part of an orchestra like this, so these experiences have been in chamber music with phenomenal players. I sensed the electricity in these movements between the players and Karajan, I was blown away.

And then, the last movement. All I could think is that Karajan managed to express the resolution of Mahlers spiritual conflicts. This is one of most amazing movements I have ever heard period!!! I actually had some tears, although I have the flu so I was probably just sweating my fever

. I can see why this recording is considered so powerful. I did get it used, but I would pay full price in a second if I had heard this before I bought it. The last movement is worth the whole price.

Anyway, I liked it.

Cheers,
dshea

My Jochum Brahms 1-3 arrived today. Will listen this afternoon. It is easier to go home sick when you have Senns waiting for you